AME: Dentist Side Hustles with Alex and Eric from "Just a Couple of Dentists"

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[00:01:30] This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network. Alan Mead is a dentist with too much time on his hands and too much recording equipment in his basement. Armed with an obsession to bring entertaining and informative content to the dental world in a way that's never been done before, I give you the Alan Mead Experience.

[00:01:58] Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Alan Mead Experience. I am your host, Dr. Alan Mead. I'm a dentist, podcaster, and actually a podcast guest. I was a guest on a show recently called Just a Couple of Dentists. It's by Alex and Eric. They are a married couple. They're both dentists.

[00:02:19] They are millennials, self-professed. I felt very old on this podcast. They graduated in 2013, and they are already kind of tired of dentistry, it appears. I mean, anyone can be tired of dentistry. Don't get me wrong, but they're very accomplished. They've owned multiple practices, startups. They've done a lot.

[00:02:44] I think they have some DSO background now, and I felt a little unqualified, except for the fact that I've been podcasting for a long time. And they seemed to be impressed with that, so I was glad for that. So I was a guest on their show. They put it out last week, and I told them I would put it out on my podcast feed as well. So if you have not heard of these guys, they're relatively new to podcasting. They're quite funny. They're good. Just a Couple of Dentists is what it's called.

[00:03:12] And they talk a lot about – they talk about business stuff. They do talk about some clinical stuff. But they also kind of just talk about their experiences as dentists and new parents and that sort of thing. It's pretty great. So I'm going to just drop the episode in here in a second, and you can take a listen. But go over – I'll put all the links in the show notes, too. Go check them out. Go subscribe to them and listen to them and participate in their stuff. They're great. They were fun to hang out with. And I hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:03:39] I mean, we kind of don't really have the passion for it anymore either. I mean, at least for me. You know, I didn't wake up and be like, yes, I want to do these implants on this patient. It's like, eh, I don't know. Yeah. I'll just go. You guys graduated in 2013? Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. And you guys are already – you're already worn out of the passion. I know. I think we're stereotypical, I guess, like millennials, right? Hey there. I'm Eric. And I'm Alex. We're just a couple of dentists who have been through it all. From buying practices to startups.

[00:04:08] From navigating the military to developing software. And doing it all while still managing to stay married. To each other, if that wasn't clear. So if you're tired of watered-down dental advice and want real strategies at work, you're in the right place. Welcome to Just a Couple of Dentists. Alex, on today's episode, we have someone that's kind of been a – kind of the big inspiration for why we wanted to do this podcast or kind of how we wanted to structure it, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:04:34] Back in 2013 after we graduated, I had a long drive to work. You had a ridiculously long drive to work. I think it was, what, an hour and a half both ways? Yep. And there were basically two main podcasts that we listened to. One was, you know, thriving dentist. And the other one was dental hacks. Yep. And I feel like if I was like, oh, I need something super clinical. I'd be like, oh, I'll put on Gary Tackis on some system thing. But if I was like, hey, I just want to laugh.

[00:05:04] I want to hear some people just shooting the shit and having fun and kind of feel like I'm with those guys. Dental hacks is always the one I always enjoyed listening to. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah. So. Welcome. Alan Mead. Yeah, this is awesome. Thanks so much. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Gary was the first. Gary was, I think he literally was the first in the space. And I think he's still going. So that's like, that's kind of incredible. I know. Totally. Because where would you say you guys were then?

[00:05:33] Were you guys around like two or three? Well, I know that. Okay. So the relentless dentist was going. Okay. Gary was going. A guy by the name of Bilal Saib. And I can't remember what his was called. I mean, I was on it. I was on it. It was the first one that I was on. And the Prism podcast, which was sort of dental, like tangentially dental. It was done by dentists. More a scientific skepticism show. And actually, the AGD had one for a long time.

[00:06:03] And it was done by a guy named Wes Blakesley. That was probably the oldest one. But there weren't a lot in the space when we came in. There just wasn't a lot. And there definitely were not ones that were not all that serious. So that was kind of, we sort of came to that point. It's like a cool, a brief history of dental podcasting. Thank you, Alan. Yeah. And now there's like 600 of them. Oh, yeah. So yeah. I know. I know. I feel like since we did ours, there's like three other people I know who were like, I think I might start a podcast. And I was like, oh, yeah. I know. Yeah.

[00:06:32] Because it's been, I mean, you pitched it to me like a year and a half ago or something. And even from then, it's been, it's like 50 new ones. Yeah. I mean, but within that, like we were selling the practice in between them. There were just a lot of other things like coming up that like we didn't have time. So once we had a chance to actually, you know, sell the practices, that's when I was like, okay, now we've got, I mean, we still don't have free time, but maybe a little bit more free time to do this. Yeah. So kind of what I wanted to talk to you about today too, is when we did our, when our second

[00:07:01] episode released, we got a comment on like, I think it was on YouTube and someone had just said, Hey, you know, it seems like all these young dentists, which first off, Alex is very happy to hear that someone called her young. Yeah. Trust me. Yeah. I get it. And, uh, had said all these young dentists. It's been a while for me. Let's just say that are all trying to do all these side hustles and doing a podcast or doing this and this. And it seems like no one just wants to do clinical dentistry anymore. And, and like at first, like I got in my head, I got a little defensive and I was kind

[00:07:30] of like, Oh, screw you. And then I thought about it for a second and I was like, you know, maybe there, there is a point to that. It does seem like that's more of a thing or a trend that you see nowadays than even when we graduated 10 years ago. And if I talked to other dentists who have been around, you know, 20, 30 years, like there, that just wasn't a thing. And so I was like, Oh yeah, we should bring Alan on just because he's been podcasting so long. He's been doing kind of side hustle stuff for a bit. I know you've worked on Facebook groups, right?

[00:08:00] Other things too. And just kind of like figure out deep dive into why are all of us trying to do everything but clinical dentistry? It is funny because first off clinical dentistry is a, is a good living. It really is. I mean, it's like, it's, I, when I'm having bad days, a lot of times I'll have a friend remind me, you know, you do better than most people and you don't work very much. You know, dentistry is a pretty good gig, right?

[00:08:26] It's, it's, it's, it's a well-paying gig and it's not that hard. It is not digging ditches. So on some level, it's good to have that gig. Um, I'm going to suggest that maybe clinical dentistry, you know, the people who wouldn't look for a side gig are the people who have hobbies and stuff outside of dentistry. I'm convinced of it.

[00:08:49] Like if, I don't know if you had, uh, well, I mean, I have kids and man, that takes a lot of time. It takes more time than podcasting. I got, I got teenage kids and I feel like I'm going to do their stuff all the time. So I, if I had, I probably wouldn't have tried to start a podcast right now, excuse me here, because we're just crazy busy with the kids. So I don't know that I would have done that.

[00:09:16] I got to, but, uh, so you do need a little spare time and I, I liked listening to podcasts. So I was sort of drawn to it right now. Everything seems pointed towards video and the real side gig podcasting is for chumps. If you, if you want to get serious, be an influencer, whatever that Instagram, I'm too old and not good looking enough. And frankly, not committed enough to do that because that, uh, that's the kind of thing takes your whole life. But I, I mean, there are dental influencers out there that are killing it.

[00:09:46] You know what I'm talking about. I, do you guys spend any time on Instagram? No, I mean, no, not really. I don't use, we just mainly do, we mainly do Facebook, but like we, you know, we had talked in the past to like the guy who's like the bentist, right? Like, I don't know if he's still huge on Tik TOK, but I mean, that guy I think is killed it. Crush it. Like, and he just, he just kind of got on. He told us he got on right when Tik TOK started and he was kind of the first like professional and, and Dennis that was on the platform making videos and they had reached

[00:10:14] out to him and they were like, Hey, we're trying to grow this. So I think it was like right place, right time. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, he, I mean, I don't know what he makes, but I'm sure. I mean, do you guys, do you guys know tooth life, Irene, the hygienist? She's from Toronto. Uh, I've heard of her practice in Toronto. Yeah. She's big on, she's big. I don't know if she does Tik TOK cause I don't do Tik TOK, but she's huge on Instagram and she's a friend of mine. And I mean, literally that is the side gig. I mean, she does own a practice and she runs a practice. She's a hygienist. She employs dentists.

[00:10:44] It's kind of a wild situation. But the other thing is she, she puts content out like no one's business and she's got a whole other business where she has people that work for her putting content out. So it's, I mean, it, she's committed to it and I think it's working great for her. I just, I don't have the commitment. I mean, do you need a certain, I feel like there's a different personality type too, between like podcaster versus influencer, right? She has a podcast too. She's covering all the bases.

[00:11:12] She started with the podcasting, but really and truly she's, I think, I think influencer is a whole different breed. Yeah. Do you think you need to have a certain type of personality though, to do influencer stuff? Like, yes. Yes. You have to put content out. That's the one thing about influencing on all these, these platforms. You have to put stuff out all the time, constantly. You know, I, I know, I know that they, they record at a certain time so they can put out a bunch of content and I actually, as a podcaster, that's probably a smart way to do it too.

[00:11:41] Podcast way in advance and stuff like that. So you can release stuff over time. And that's one of the reasons I go to, like, I'm going to midwinter next week and I'm planning on recording a lot. I'm hoping to have months worth of content from there. But yeah, it's kind of reality is, no, I was going to say, it's kind of the concept of like it did when they used to, or when they record like wheel of fortune and jeopardy, isn't it? Like you record 20 episodes and then you've got, so like in our heads, we all grew up thinking like, oh man, they're recording all the time. But it's like, they probably record in one month and then they have their whole season. Yeah.

[00:12:09] That would be a really smart way to do it. Like if you, if you were really going to make this the side gig, you'd spend a lot more time selling ads in a lot less time recording. I don't do that. I'm afraid. So write that down. It's, I know it's, it's fun. It's fun. And I mean, I, I've gone a lot of places and done a lot of things I probably wouldn't have done with the podcast. So that's, that's definitely worth it right there. Yeah.

[00:12:37] What's the, um, is it, what's like something really cool or crazy you've gotten to do because of the podcast, like anywhere you've gotten to go or speak or anything like that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I got to interview Frank Spear one-on-one at the Spear Summit a few years back. Yeah. I mean, I've, we've interviewed him a bunch of times, but me sitting down at a table for 45 minutes with Frank Spear. That's amazing. That was amazing. He was, he was, and he was great.

[00:13:06] He's a great storyteller. And that's, and that makes great podcasting too, to be honest. In fact, I'll probably put that episode out next Friday when I'm in Chicago. Oh, nice. Cause why not? Yeah. That's one thing. The other thing you need to know when you have a lot of episodes, uh, your old ones, Apple podcast makes it so no one, no one gets, it's really hard to see the old ones. So now I'm putting out a bunch of old ones and it's great. It's great fun. Like I, we, they get as much response as the new ones. Cause a lot of people haven't even heard them. It's wild. Oh, that's pretty cool.

[00:13:36] Cool. So yeah, Alex, what are your thoughts on why we're all doing side gigs? Well, well I got out, you know, after my maternity leave, I never went back, you know, like I was like, okay, I'm kind of done with this. And it was mostly because I don't want to deal with people. I mean, that's, you know, that's a huge thing. That's a huge thing. Yeah. So like between staff issues and patient issues and stuff. I mean, I know some people, you know, kind of have that like lonely vibe.

[00:14:04] They're like, oh, I don't want to be lonely, you know, in dentistry and stuff. And they're like, okay, let me do something that's more, you know, in front of people, talking to people and stuff like that. But, uh. No, but you could be in front of a computer all day and be fine. Like I'm the opposite. And like, it's kind of funny because our personalities are very different on some stuff. Like I, like I have to be liked. I need to be around people all the time. I get tons of energy when I'm around people doing things. And like in a different life, Alex could have been like a coder. Yeah.

[00:14:33] So yeah, just like lock me in a room for 12 hours and I'll just, I'll be fine. Like, don't, don't worry about it. But, but yeah, I mean, you'd be. Yeah. Even for me though, I don't know if you ever felt this, Alan. I mean, are you, do you practice with other docs or are you by yourself? I'm by myself. I've been by myself pretty much. I, I, I associated with my dad, uh, early on. So occasionally I would have another dentist, but, but I've been, I've been a solo guy forever. And like, uh, it's really, I, I agree with you on a lot of this stuff, except I'm a little

[00:15:03] of both of you. I, if I have spare time, I'd like to be alone. Actually. I'd like, I'd like to be alone in a way. And maybe, maybe it's a decompression thing. It's one of those. I'm an introvert that can be extroverted when necessary. That sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. No, but like for me, and I wonder if just some of the, some other younger docs too, if, if you're practicing by yourself and by yourself for years, yeah, you have your team around you, but if you have, you know, your assistants or front office, you don't necessarily

[00:15:29] have another, another dentist with you that sometimes you could talk about cases or you could just talk about other stuff too. And, and for me, I wonder if I would thrive or do better in a situation where there was four or five dentists and it was more of a collaborative thing. And I wonder if too, if that's where some of this, you know, the, when DSOs and DPOs or whatever we call them nowadays are getting more popular because they'll buy bigger practices or have ones that are maybe more associate driven and there's multiple associates there.

[00:15:55] So that maybe appeals to some people who want that feeling of like collaboration. I, I, I, I could see that. I could totally see that. Yeah. So I don't know. That was one of my thoughts. Yeah. I mean, we kind of don't really have the passion for it anymore either. I mean, at least for me, you know, I didn't wake up and be like, yes, I want to do these implants on this patient. It's like, eh, I don't know. Yeah. I'll just go. You guys graduated in 2013. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah.

[00:16:23] And you guys are already, you're already worn out of the passion. I know. I think we're stereotypical, I guess, like millennials, right? Hey, quick break here. If you're enjoying just a couple of dentists, don't forget to follow or subscribe wherever you're listening. It's the best way to keep up with new episodes and hear us argue about dumb stuff and complain about dentistry. And trust me, you don't want to miss that. Now back to the show. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the biggest thing for at least me was that I actually liked the business part of dentistry a little bit more than the clinical.

[00:16:52] And so I like doing, you know, the books and doing the, you know, the creating the systems and the checklist. I like doing that. I like that. And, um, and I mean, even for me, like when we were in fourth year of dental school, like I remember I spent more time building like a, we did like a, me and a few buddies did a side thing with our Dean and we just, we were, one of our buddies was going to buy a practice. So after school, we would just go and learn how to like value a practice and do all that stuff.

[00:17:21] So I always found myself spending more time or attention on that stuff versus like remembering the Krebs cycle again. Right. Or something like that is, that is very millennial to me. Here's the thing. Like I know tons of, tons of younger dentists have told me, oh yeah, we're, we had, okay. So our, our meeting voice of dentistry, the very first one was in 2017. We had, it was a sort of a dental podcasting meeting that's kind of faded away. We may well, we'd like to try and bring it back. But in any case, um, there were a bunch of guys from, I want to say they were from, it

[00:17:51] was in Tennessee. So they didn't drive too far. They're somewhere from the South. They all had great accents. And, uh, one of them had bought a practice in dental school. Like they all came up, they started a podcast right there. And then at voice of dentistry. And they, one of them was actually like, had just bought a practice as a dental student was employing a dentist to work for them by the time. So, and I'm thinking to myself, what the hell? I, when I was in dental school, I was trying to survive. I was trying not to get kicked out. Well, I know. Yeah.

[00:18:18] So like, I don't, I never, that never would have crossed my mind to do anything. Now, mind you also a podcast is a very, like, that was something that existed when you guys were in dental school. Nothing like that existed when I was in dental school. There was, and no one, I mean, I was, my dad was a dentist and I was just going to go in with him. And that was that I didn't need to know anything about the business. I have to tell you, I'm the opposite. I, the business stuff has zero interest for me. I don't make enough money in dentistry because I don't care enough to pay too much attention. I like clinical dentistry.

[00:18:46] I honestly, if, if I could get a patient who can open real wide and I could be in my microscope, I'd be there all day. That's my favorite. That hasn't worn out for me either. Like I've been doing this for 27 years. I do like that. So I, I never figured podcasting was going to be any kind of a side gig. It turned out to be a little bit, but, but I, I like clinical dentistry. Like I kind of like that.

[00:19:14] I don't like, um, and actually we have really nice people. Like I can't say anything bad about my practice. Staffing issues is the worst. I hate that. I hate hiring. I hate having to do that. Uh, I mostly like it, but I don't like what it's becoming. Cause I, I feel like, I feel like, um, I don't know. Uh, there's so many times I'm talking with my best friend from dental school. So a couple of old guys wishing that things were the way they used to be, which is so funny.

[00:19:43] I can't like, I can't believe that I'm saying that, but I kind of am. It's wild. So on some level, I feel like you guys are probably better equipped to handle how, how changes are going to come. I really do. I think someone, someone your age is probably better equipped to handle that. What do you think about that? Yeah. I don't like, honestly, we even had, we had, um, Richard Lowe on a couple of weeks ago. Right.

[00:20:09] And he, he, he bought a practice when he was still like in the military and he had a podcast. He was doing a podcast on his first year of his AGD. And I was like, that was even, I was like, dude, that's some next level stuff. Like in terms of like what he's trying to do. And I mean, you're right. And we're probably similar age to him too. And, and yeah, I don't, I don't know what, I don't know if for me, maybe the, maybe our

[00:20:37] generation just kind of saw a lot of like older dentists and saw people with like, you know, every dentist I talked to had neck surgery or back surgery and it had all these issues. Right. And then, and then maybe because we had more access to either information or opportunities with like, you know, just having the internet and all that stuff. It was like, oh, well maybe there's other options too.

[00:21:01] And it is a little bit of like a shiny, you know, a new shiny toy thing too, that I think that we get ourselves stuck into. And it's like, oh, well we can do this, but then we can also do this too. And it's like, dude, yeah. So I don't know. What are your thoughts? The obsession with side gigs. You're not wrong about that. I, I laugh because I brought up the, the influencer thing, because I think the younger, even younger than you guys, that is hugely appealing to them because basically, I mean, it's so funny to me to think that, well, I'm on Instagram all the time.

[00:21:31] That is in, in Instagram. There's probably not a lot of 53 year old people that are as obsessed with Instagram. I don't post very much. It's mostly just because it's such a visual medium, but I don't do TikTok at all. And most people are like, oh, I can't believe you're not on TikTok. So like, like there's a whole world of people and now they're old enough to be dentists that that's, that's what they see. That's what they know. And that's what they're going to do. It's wild to me. It's absolutely wild to me. And it makes me feel so incredibly old.

[00:21:58] I'm 53 years old that I feel like I should be in a walker and be get off my lawn. Yeah. It's just like unbelievable. Unbelievable. I, like I said, the fact that I don't have TikTok on my phone, I think is, do you guys have TikTok on your phone? No, we don't. Yeah. I don't ever, I don't ever use it. But I feel like too, I wonder if like when these social media platforms here, like Alan Mead, 53 year old is on Instagram if they're like, ah, shit, we're, we're, we're dying out now. Now we're getting old people. Yeah, this is it. Oh, we're done. We're done. We got to start something new.

[00:22:27] Like, like when I was, uh, when I was in college, it's when like when Facebook just started. So you had to have a college email to get on Facebook. And I was like, oh, this is the coolest thing ever. And then I remember my younger sisters were like six years younger. And a few years later, like, oh, we're on Facebook. And I was like, how the hell are you on Facebook? You don't, you're not in college. And they're like, oh, they opened it up to everyone. And so I'm like younger people got on. I remember when they opened it up to everyone. I was there when they opened it up to everyone. Yeah. And then I, and then I remember like five years after that, my mom got on Facebook and

[00:22:55] I was like, oh, now, now it's our time to leave. Now it's, now it's older women that now have taken over Facebook. My parents, my parents see all this stuff. Like I, I mean, I have multiple Facebook groups and mind you, when you, you said Facebook groups, like that's a side gig. I'm like, that is hilarious. I know there's people that are making money off, off Facebook. I don't understand how one would make money off Facebook groups, but there's tons of people that are. And, and mostly, mostly I think it's the audacity to ask someone to sponsor you. And that's where I struggle. Like there's a lot of people. Hell yeah.

[00:23:24] There's a ton of people here. The way dental companies advertise, I hope they're listening, except I hope they're not. They have no idea what's effective to sell to dentists. They have no clue. Yeah. But if they, if, if they think that you're new and cool, there might be willing to try you. I swear to God, that's, that's all it is. And so many of the Facebook groups are not new and cool, but they are different. So it's a, you know, most of them are, I don't know. I don't know. Facebook groups are interesting.

[00:23:52] And I got to tell you, I was on more Facebook groups than I am now. I avoid them because they're just bad for my mental health. They're not, they're not good for me. I don't, I don't like, it's a comparison engine. I just don't need that. I can't, I can't keep doing that. I've been doing that for too long. I just can't do it. Yeah. I know. No, we were, uh, I was joking with one of my buddies too. We got a post came up. I don't know if you ever see these on Facebook where someone had said like, you know, I do

[00:24:20] not give permission for Facebook to use my stuff. And I was like, that's how, that's how I feel like you can decide if you're actually old. If you've posted that and put that on. I haven't posted that yet. It makes me feel like a spring chicken. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know if there's anyone under 55 that has put on their Facebook post, like I do not give permission for Facebook to use my information. It's a classic. It's a classic, yeah. No, that, that is funny. But, um, I don't know.

[00:24:48] I think just maybe does dentistry sometimes feel like, like a dead end a little bit? Like you're stuck kind of in a rut. Like there's not, like if you are an associate or just like you own your practice, then it's like, what else? You know? And it's like, I got to do this for, for 20 years. I don't know if maybe a lot of people. The drive to own, the drive to own multiple practices that also separates people. Cause like that, that sounds like torture to me. I would, I mean, I'm barely making it with one and then there's people that own five and

[00:25:15] that's, I'm like, wow, that is a different breed of cat than I am for sure. That's definitely like a young dentist thing where we must have just seen people do that. I think like we grew up when we had heard, oh, you know, we know this guy and they've got like three offices and they're making a ton of money. And I think there, there has been this like push in the last 10 years where it's like, you don't think like I want to grad people don't think anymore. I want to graduate. I want to go back to my hometown. I want to have my practice and be there. It's how do I scale and grow like four offices really fast and sell them all and make a lot of money.

[00:25:44] Again, can't relate, but I mean, God bless those people, but I just can't relate. That's, that would be the least appealing thing to me of all. And I mean, for us, like that's where we kind of came at it first too. And we're like, oh, we're going to build this empire and do this and this. And then, I mean, it is, I think the one thing that a lot of people miss is that it's not even like double the work once you have two practices. It's like five times the work because even though for us, we found, cause at first we

[00:26:11] were saying, oh, we should build a cluster of offices in Denver where we're at. And then we'll grow them, get associates in. And like, you think everything is just easy because like you haven't done it. So you don't, you don't know what you don't know. Just copy paste. Yeah. And then once you get in it and we had two offices and there were even two of us, right? Like there were points where like, oh, okay. Now this person up here at this office is leaving. And then down here the next day, this person is. And then there's an issue with payroll up here. And then there's, and then the issue is just like, it was more exponential.

[00:26:41] It wasn't even like additive. It just, I felt like it just got really tough. And then after the two offices were like, yeah, there's no way we want to do like three, four or five. That would just kill us. I love your honesty. The story is maybe you're the only one that suffered with that, but I don't believe it. I don't believe it. So what you hear is that it's all glory and you build your empire and stuff like that. It sounds really hard. And like, I had to hire one hygienist. I was so stressed for a week. I was losing my mind.

[00:27:11] I like when, when, when I got, when I got the, the resignation of my, of my stalwart long time hygienist, because she'd found a gig closer to home. I'm like, Oh my God. Just like, I, that's not me. There's some people that clearly have an iron stomach that are perfectly okay with that. I'm just not. But I appreciate, I appreciate that you guys are saying that it's, it's not, I mean, I don't know that even having, I'm all that good at one practice. So I'm just like, you know, I figured with two or three, I'm like, Oh, I'd suck even worse,

[00:27:41] man. Like it'd be terrible. So, and I mean, like you got the, you got the guy that's been practicing for 28 years thinking, man, I'd love to be an associate right now. I would love to, I would love to just have someone cut me a check at the end of the day. I just get to go home maybe. And maybe someday I'm going to do that. Cause I also have, I have a long, I have a long commute and it's fine. I've been doing it for 27 years and I'm like, boy, it'd be kind of cool to not have a long commute. But so, but, but, but that kind of changes like this huge thing. And I just, and I feel like I don't really want to start over.

[00:28:10] I don't know. I am definitely, I'm showing my age a little bit here. I'm impressed though. So how many practices do you have now? So we had, we had two, or we have to, had to. And so we started one in 2017, 2019 for like startups. So we did the whole, like, we went to the breakaway courses and did that whole like setup and model for everything. And then that group we were in that I talked about before, a bunch of us had done startups around the same time through that, like same consultant. Right.

[00:28:38] And so we just kind of shared best practices. And then last September we partnered or sold whatever you want to say to like a, to a DSO. Okay. And so they're majority owners and now we're like minority owners in it. Okay. Okay. So now we can do more side gigs, right? Well, the problem is that our side gigs have turned into like careers, like big time stuff. It's like, hey, let's think about this. And it's like, let's just build the software. And it's like, okay.

[00:29:07] And it's like, okay, let's start this other business. Like our things aren't little. We have like a big problem our whole lives where we like stress ourselves out a ton. And then we're like, okay, I think we're leveled out. And we're like, okay, well, this isn't good enough. Let's add more. And like, so we, we never like, no, it's like, we have this going on and it's like, how about this? And we're like, yep, we can do it too. And then it's, we have like eight things going on and yeah. So our focus is kind of all over the place. I don't know.

[00:29:35] I don't want to know what my biological age is right from all this stress. So, so if you're looking to do a side gig, make sure it's not harder than your actual daytime gig. Cause this is, yeah. Um, well, I figured we could also go through. Okay. So I was trying to look up what, what are the potential? I had chat GPT do this, right? Cause no one uses, no one, no one has original thoughts anymore. Everyone just uses AI. So I was coming up, I was like, what are, what other side gigs could I do? Right. Cause it's not like I'm doing enough already.

[00:30:03] And it came up with ones and I thought we could do some little fun game where we do like a, like a, uh, kiss Mary kill. Right. Where it's like one kind of do then one you would want to do. And then when you just want to dump right. Or get rid of. Okay. Um, so I'll go through, I'll give you the, the three and then you can start Alan and you'll tell me what you would do. And then we can kind of talk about the rank of them. Okay. So the, the first one is you can be an insurance claim reviewer for like Delta say. Okay.

[00:30:33] You could teach you to dental school part time, or you could be a product ambassador. So like you could work for Invisalign and like speak for them. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. So I got to pick one that I really like, one that I would consider and one that I would dump. Kiss, marry, kill. So I have a thing. I always thought I would be really good in dental school as a teacher because dental school warped me beyond belief.

[00:31:02] Dental school broke me in so many ways. And I, I've always thought to myself, I could definitely be better than what they were. I could, I could, I could make dental students feel better and help them learn better. That, that has appealed to me. The brand ambassador. Okay. That's the one I killed. The brand ambassador. That's when I killed. Okay. Not, not to say there are plenty of brands that I feel strongly enough about that I'm happy to have ads and talk about them. I don't know that I want, I, I, I was on the speaking circuit before we started podcasting. I spoke a lot about addiction and I spoke a little bit about social media and stuff like that.

[00:31:32] And that seemed like such a romantic thing. God, does that suck? That sucks. It's terrible. So brand ambassadors, I'm thinking someone like Josh Austin who has to go speak for stuff. That's my kill. Um, and the idea of, I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's like, I hate insurance companies and I hate what, what they've made us become. But the idea of having a remote gig, not so bad. I'm okay. Yeah, I know. Right. Send me some x-rays, send me some narratives. I could read those. So that's my, okay.

[00:32:02] That's my kiss. My Mary, I could teach at dental school. I could do that. Now, mind you, it's a two hour drive from home. Closest one, Michigan or Detroit. Both of them are two hours. So I'd have to figure out a living organization or we have to learn how to teleport one or the other. Yeah. Let's assume that. The brand ambassador thing would be killed. Do people actually teach in person now though? Like, is that still a thing? I have no idea. Yeah. I don't know. Clinical instructor. You have to, right? Like you can't. Do you? Maybe not. I don't know. I don't know. Just take a picture of your selfie of your prep.

[00:32:32] And I don't know. If the remote, I will say that, I mean, I just have so many dental school memories of, of like my day was going to be good or bad depending on what instructor I was with. Oh God. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. We had, so I was lucky because ours was based on different clinics, right? So you were like clinic A through G and I was in clinic G and we had like the cool clinic director and he legit. Yeah. We call it like country club. Yeah.

[00:32:58] So he would, on the board, it would say like, all right, the restorative is Dr. So-and-so. The perio is Dr. So-and-so. If he looked up at the names and it was a, it was a clinical professor he didn't like, he'd call us all up. He'd be like, Hey, check this out guys. He'd take his eraser, erase it off and put his name on it and be like, we're not working with them today. You're working with me. Oh my God. Yes. That's what I would do. Because I hated dental school so much. I really did. That's, I would do that too. I'm all for that. We're like, did we learn as much as we should have? No.

[00:33:28] But was it fun? Did we not have to deal with like the a-hole? No, we did not. We get stuck with it. Yours would. Yeah. So they would, he would be like, no, you're going to go down the hall today. I'm going to take care of them today. And we're like, yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, good for you. That's hilarious. What would you do, Alex? I love that. I want to know who this person is. I like that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Still probably teaching at the dental school. Yeah. Mine would probably be, Kiss would be a teacher and it's, Mary would be the insurance thing

[00:33:57] because I can just be alone in a room. So that's fine. And then kill, yeah, brand ambassador. No, thank you. I don't want to sell anything to anyone. So yeah, that's my order. See, that's funny. At first I probably would have gone with the Mary one to be a product ambassador just because I think maybe I have this deep need, like I said, to be like this. Well, I don't like being the center of attention, but I want everyone to like me. So maybe that part's there. But after Alan explaining how much that would suck, now maybe I'd go down to Kiss on it.

[00:34:28] There is a part I would have to say kill on teaching at a dental school because I don't really like the clinical stuff. And so I feel like I would just not do a good job. Yeah. And the pay is pretty bad. And at least I've heard. Yeah, except unless you go down to Scottsdale, Glendale, Arizona, the Midwestern. I hear they pay pretty well there. Oh, yeah. Just understand that if you're a full-time clinical instructor, you do all right there. Oh, nice. I didn't know that. Yeah, I've heard. Well, you see those posts about people.

[00:34:57] I don't know if it was like Minnesota or some other school. Minnesota is the worst. Minnesota is the worst. They don't even cover your fucking parking. Pardon my friend. No, I think someone posted an ad somewhere. They're like, you know, full-time clinical instructor. It was like $35,000 a year. And I was like, I think that's below minimum wage. Yeah. You don't, as long as they give you an apartment, you're fine, right? Like that's ridiculous. Yeah. Also, full-time. Oh, my God. Yeah, full-time. We validate parking and that's your benefits. Yep.

[00:35:28] But yeah. And then insurance claims reviewer, that would be, I don't know how much, you know, I don't know how much time commitment that is or how much they make on it. But yeah, there is something that would be appealing to just being able to sit at a computer. It would be almost like if you went back and specialized and were like, did like path or something like that. And people just sent you stuff to look at. Kind of. But like, I'd be, I'd be probably the worst because I'd be like, yep, I see that spec too. Approved. Approved. I'd just be like, yeah, we're good. I'd get yelled at by the insurance. Yeah, I would not be a good employee.

[00:35:58] I'd be fired quickly. I agree. And the other thing is, is that if you were really, if you, if the insurance company loved what you did, that means all dentists will hate you. So your colleagues will hate you because you're, you're saying no a lot. That's what it comes down to. Real quick. If you're into what we're talking about and want more, check out my newsletter, Just Two Minutes. It's the dental blog you can actually read between patients. No fluff, no BS, just straight up tips, stories, and insights to help you level up.

[00:36:24] You can subscribe over at coupleofdentists.com or just hit the link in our show notes. Now back to the pod. I had one more round of stuff. Okay, let's do it. Kiss, marry, kill stuff. And then we can kind of wrap it up if that works with you too. Sure. Absolutely. Okay. So then for round two of this same fun game, I said you could be a dental consultant. So like just your standard, you know, let me help you out with your, your practice and stuff like that.

[00:36:50] You could be a clinical director for like a DSO and a expert witness for like legal cases. Okay. Okay. I got this one's easy. Okay. Yeah. Do it. The clinical director of a DSO is kill zero chance. Yeah. I just get it. That's just working with too many people. The legal consultant would be kind of fun. I think that might be, what was in the other one was a, the other one. Just a, like just a dental consultant. Regular dental. Okay.

[00:37:19] So, so dental consultant would be kiss because frankly, I don't have the, I don't have the skill set to do that. I would have to, I'd have to care more about the business aspects and stuff like that. So I guess that's kiss and Mary would be the, the legal consultant, which is, none of them are that appealing, but if I got to put them in an order, that's what I'm doing. That's what you would do. Yeah. What would you, what would you? Yeah. My kill would be the clinical director. I wouldn't know. No, thank you.

[00:37:47] My, the kiss one was probably the legal like witness, I guess. That seems like a lot of work. And then Mary is the other, the dental consultant. I feel like I can just tell people what to do and like take no ownership. You've always been good at like, you're good at systems and like, you like organizing stuff and having things down. Yeah. But then like not be accountable for any of that. And then you can just walk up, pay me, yeah. Just be like, pay me 50 grand and I'll see you never. You need to do this. The reason I don't want to use one because that'd be the reality is, is no matter what

[00:38:17] happens, I still have to execute on the thing. And I know. Yeah. I'm terrible at that stuff. So that's, you know, and they, they get paid either way. Oh yeah. And that, that's the problem we had when we've hired them in the past is like, we almost expect like this, this magic thing that's going to happen when you hire them. And you have to realize that you're the one doing all the work still. A hundred percent. And, and I mean, that isn't, that's not a knock on the consultant. They're very transparent up front. No. You're still doing the work. They also, they would love to have me as a client because I would be constantly failing

[00:38:46] and still having to pay them. Cause I mean, I just know. You are their money. Yeah. You're their ticket. I think I would, I think I would, the expert witness thing for legal cases would be cool, but I think I would be absolutely awful at it. Cause it's probably very like detailed and stuff like that. So I would just be terrible at that. Get yourself in your own lie. Yeah. I would not be good at it, but I'd probably. I'd probably say kiss on that one.

[00:39:16] So the clinical director for a DSO on paper could be fun for me because yeah, you get to deal with a lot of other dentists and do that. I would probably though, because it would be for a DSO, I would get fired super quickly because I would probably just be like, don't do that onlay or inlay every time you're okay with a filling. And then the head of the DSO would be like, why are you telling these dentists not to produce a crap ton? Yep. And I'd be like, uh, oops. Yeah. So I would, I would probably fail on that. I, I had worked for a DSO and used to get, they used to, your numbers were terrible.

[00:39:46] My numbers were terrible because I would, if it was like a, like a board's lesion, I was like, I want to do a DO filling. They're like, oh, but you know why? An onlay is so much better here. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to do an onlay man. Like I, I, I've never actually talked to someone who, who lived that. It's always just been sort of a myth to me, but I got to figure it's one of the reasons that they do what they do. I mean, they were very big on, and they were good at trying to convince you why it was so much better too. And why it would last way longer. And it was good.

[00:40:15] And you know how hard it is when you're trying to put an onlay, like, it's not like I'm some huge person either, but getting your fingers to like grab that onlay, even with the sprue on there. I like, I didn't have my assistants help because they were just even smaller and had smaller fingers. There's like, I feel bad for a guy who's like six, two or six, three having to try to do that. I was like, this is so hard to get on. I was like, I should, the filling is fine. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then a consultant. Yeah.

[00:40:44] I mean, I'd, I'd probably have fun doing that too, because I'd get to go into practices and it would be nice to not have. Well, you like telling people what to do and not being held accountable. My follow through is bad. So it would be an awesome gig because I would tell people to do it and then I don't know when I don't have to follow through. Yeah. Cause you're not actually. I like that. There's, there's something to that, I think. Um, but no, yeah. I mean, I appreciate you having, or I appreciate you coming on and talking with us.

[00:41:11] This is very, very kind of full circle moment for us because like I said, this was when we were growing, when growing up, when we were growing up as young dentists in our, in our late twenties, you know, dental hacks was definitely like the big ends, one big inspiration for us and how we learned a lot. And, and, and the way that you guys presented information in a way that was very like digestible, right. Was, was awesome. And we never felt bad.

[00:41:41] Like, I think that was, that was part of it. It was like, Oh, this clinical something or other. And I'm like, Oh geez, I don't do it that way. I better use that rubber dam now. You know, that you guys too. And this is kind of some of our inspiration was you guys never had an episode. It was like, all right, in the next 30 days, learn how I made a million dollars in production. You're like, okay. Like it's because we didn't like that. If I could do that, I'd put, no, I'm, I, I'm turned off by that stuff too. And that's one of the reasons we did it that way. I will say this a little behind the scenes.

[00:42:09] Jason was very frustrated that we never had a product to sell. He wanted, because, because all the other people around us had stuff they were selling. And I was like, we don't have anything to sell. We have, we have our, we have our banter to sell. That's what we've got. And so no. So that is the whole podcasting thing. It's kind of like, yeah, you got to build something so you can sell something. I'm like, yeah, or not, or not just be entertaining. I think it's more important. Yep. No. So thanks. That was, like I said, that was a big inspiration for us. So it's awesome for us to, to have you on and talk to us. Yep. And we appreciate it.

[00:42:39] This was fun. Awesome. Well, cool. Well, we'll cut it off here then. Thanks. All right. See ya. All right. Thanks guys.