AME: Price Anchoring (aka: One Reason Dental Benefits Suck)

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[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a production of the very dental podcast network.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Alan Mead is a dentist with too much time on his hands and too much recording equipment in his basement.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Armed with an obsession to bring entertaining and informative content to the dental world,

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: in a way that's never been done before.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I give you the Alan Mead Experience.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Alan Mead Experience.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Dr. Alan Mead.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a dentist, a pod guester, and a fair dad.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: What is a fair dad you might ask?

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can answer that.

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: The Midland County Fair, which is, I think I've talked about it on the show multiple times before.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty big deal.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: As far as county fairs go we have a, we definitely out kick our coverage on county fairs.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So I live on a farm.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: We have farm animals, horses, miniature doggy goats, chickens, ducks.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually we have some people that are raising pigs on our farm.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not our pigs.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: We just, we get to experience a little bit of the pig lifestyle without the full commitment of actually raising them.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: If you go back far enough on my farm, if you walk back to one of the back barns,

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you do get to experience the smell of the pigs.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That, that, uh, indescribable and frankly, heart to miss smell of pigs.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, honestly, I've been around some pigs in my day before I went to,

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: before I decided to go to dental school.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I actually spent two weeks in North Carolina, two in or out a bunch of industrial pig farms.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was thinking I wanted to be a veterinarian,

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: getting experience with large animal veterinarian.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I ended up being a dentist as you might have noticed.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I've been around some pigs.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: These pigs smell lovely compared to what I have, have experienced in the past.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So there we have it.

[00:02:32] Anyhow.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we start Midland County Fair tomorrow, although I feel like we really started today because we,

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: uh, actually started like last week.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: My wife dropped the camper off at the fairgrounds.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We got up at about 430 this morning to get over.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: There's not enough electrical hookups for all the campers in the campground,

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and you have to wage your claim.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to get there early to plug in.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You're not allowed to plug in before 8 a.m.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But people line up and kind of I got there early and was just sitting by the plug because I wasn't going to not get electricity for my family.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We do stay out at the fair in our camper.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this year I think I will not be staying at the camper.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be doing, I'm going to be being a dentist quite a bit this week.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So in any case, we have fair shenanigans going on.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and it's, it's actually okay.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's a lot of work.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, it's a lot of work.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of work that seems to happen at the last second before fair.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's been a relatively hectic time just in the last few days.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually been quite lovely to be at work.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of dealing with fair stuff because, and also the it's the last week of summer before kind of school starts.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a band camp starts in earnest next week as well during fair week.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hot mess.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot going on and then the week after that the kids start school.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a lot going on in any case.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So I have a really interesting topic to discuss with you.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been thinking about it a lot lately and I thought when any any time I think about something like this is much as I have a lot of work.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I have been.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of figure I got, I got to bring it up and talk about it because I think that I can't be the only person that's sort of run into these concepts.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically the concept is is anchoring price anchoring.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And price anchoring and anyone who has done any comparative.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Comparing prices and features of of something that they're looking at buying has probably run into price.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Anchoring before.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just I'm literally going to steal from a website.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll put the link to the website in the show notes describing what anchor is a common saying in the world of pricing goes how do you sell a $2,000 watch.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Put it next to a $10,000 watch.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The essential idea behind this anchoring is that customers perceive pricing relatively.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: An item perceived as cheap or expensive in comparison to the initial price point or to another item whose price they knew about first.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically it is a number that someone just gets set in their head.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so like if you, if you are looking at a pair of pants online and you compare it to a second pair of pants,

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you sort of compare the price of the first set of pants.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes anchors how you value something.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: How much value like a pair of pants should be $X dollars.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then if you happen to run into something that's different, then the anchor makes it harder or easier for you to look at that price.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: In the case of an iPad, the initial price flashed was $999, which registered itself in the minds of customers.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Then when the price was revealed to be $499, the customers felt like they'd saved $500.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, none of the customers knew how much the iPad was actually worth.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This must have been from some experiment.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. I am sort of jumping in the middle of this article.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It was the initially high price anchor that made them feel that the iPad was a steal.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Had the initial price flash been say $399, the customers would have felt like they were losing out even though the final price offered was $499.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Either way it would have been $499.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: This is why companies often present their products with two prices, a recommended retail price that has been crossed out in a lower sale price.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Next to it, customers feel like they have scored a bargain.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the generic marketing term of anchoring.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, honestly, that's in pricing of retail items in a lot of cases that you're looking at it.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But I have an analogy to the dental world specifically to dental benefits.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, what would anchoring have to do with dental benefits?

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: First off, I think dentists...

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. I know that.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a few things in the world that I know.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: First off, every dentist looks at a fee for service, not accepting insurance, cash only patients pay as they go model is the way to go.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Is the prime way to go?

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, the way dental benefits have changed recently over the years.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not changing as the case may be. They don't reimburse well enough even though our costs have gone up significantly after going.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of people around me that are going fee for service. They're getting out of insurance.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they can do it great, if they want to do it great, I support that.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's great.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think dental benefits are garbage.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are garbage products. They're terrible for dentists. They're actually terrible for patients, but the reality is,

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Are people bad or wrong to want to use their dental benefits?

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: No, of course not. Here's the thing.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: These people are oftentimes not even buying them themselves. They're not going into a marketplace and buying a package of dental benefits.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The insurance is bought by an employer.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a benefit for their employment.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: In a lot of cases, I'm not even sure they know how much it costs. They certainly are not making judgments on how what kind of coverage they're getting.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They take what their HR person has chosen.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I've always looked at it as you know, you can't hate someone for wanting to use their dental benefits because, you know what?

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't go to the hospital and just say I'm going to pay cash even though I have insurance.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I've actually paid for.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: On some level, I wish that it would make sense that I could just pay cash for medical stuff, but the reality is,

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The insurance aspect of it is, is you never quite know what you're going to get.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: A cancer diagnosis is going to be very expensive.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things in medicine that are quite expensive and unpredictable.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Thus, health insurance is more like insurance than dental benefits.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It's dental benefits as I've described before are a shitty coupon, where you have $X dollars to spend.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And whoever is giving the benefit gets to tell you what you can and can't spend it on that sort of thing.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hot mess.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: We all know that, but I don't hate patients for wanting to use insurance only because they didn't make the choice.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And it is a benefit that they have why wouldn't they want to use it?

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It just does, I can't fault the patient for wanting to use it.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is this anchoring.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Because the way that dental benefits are administered,

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_01]: it's exact opposite of health insurance.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So health insurance typically has some kind of a deductible where the patient has to pay an X dollars a year.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's got to be met and then the health insurance, quote unquote, then will pay for the most part pay,

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a percent or all of what's charged over and beyond the deductible.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone kind of gets that.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, dental insurance is almost the exact opposite where the realities they have an explicit limit over which they'll pay no more.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And there might be, there's oftentimes a deductible where they have to pay X dollars before the dental benefit kicks in.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, they have a limit of say, in a lot of cases I've heard 1,200 or so.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes there's some GM GM benefit packages around me that have a 1,500 or even 1,800 dollar limit.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard of more but I've also heard of a lot less and what's really funny is that number hasn't changed at all in the 22 years that the 26 years I've been practicing dentistry.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it just hasn't has not gone up very much.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So, and I suspect how much these people are paying for it out of their paycheck has gone up for sure.

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[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you look at those the way these things are administered in that number in dental dentistry,

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and dental benefits, the number of which they won't go over.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the anchor that I'm talking about, the maximum amount that they're offered is the anchor.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So, what do I mean by anchor? In their mind, that say their anchor is $1200.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: $1200 means something to them.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the amount that the amount of coverage or the amount of benefit they have any given year.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But what that really means to the patient is they assume that that number has some relationship to the average policy holders,

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: or dental need. Like, well, okay, if I've got $1200, I shouldn't need more than $1200 worth of services, should I?

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course that has nothing to do with anyone to dental health.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's be honest, someone who takes really good care of their teeth doesn't have a functional habits,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't have sleep issues, doesn't grind their teeth, doesn't, you know,

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: goz-al-mount-do, doesn't take care of their brushes and flushes.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Flosses as much as anyone person should.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Gen in has good genetics, all that stuff. Generally speaking, those people $1200 would be way more than those people would ever need any given year for services,

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: basically for preventive services.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say they take a set of bite-wings, a couple exams, some pro-feas and, you know, that's pretty much,

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not going to amount to $1200 in most cases.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So that amount is fine for them. The problem is if you have any actual pathology, it doesn't take very long to add up well beyond that $1200.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So the patient thinks that the dollar amount that they have means something about the kind of care.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And I have had in many cases where patients felt like we were pushing extra treatment because it was beyond what they would cover.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Or they come in thinking, well I have dealt with insurance. It should cover everything because that's kind of how medical insurance has meant to them.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So on some level, the dental insurance companies have used this concept of anchoring very effectively.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you're explaining to a patient that,

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to say people who do bigger treatment plans or things that cost more than that.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Typically the answer is, you know, this is what it costs, your insurance will help, will help towards this but we'll probably use all your insurance and then some,

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and they make the financial arrangement because we have to do that.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: As Dennis, we have to make the financial arrangement.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We don't do it like medicine where we just do the care and then send it a bill. Can't do that.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's because we're better people or just the model doesn't work.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't send that many people bills that they're not expecting industry and not expecting to get, you know, stiff or what have you.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a painted advance that's the, that's the smart move.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to explain what it's going to cost.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: People doing implants, people doing, you know, I think people doing bigger treatment.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I think patients understand that it might cost more than their insurance.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't even know if they do or not.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_01]: The bottom line is that's anchoring thing.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The regular dental patient that comes into your office, not the patient that's going looking for an all-unforinot the patient that's looking for, you know, a mouthful of a year.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: That patient knows they're going to be paying out of pocket and somehow or not those patients are probably more savvy,

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: purchasers of dental services anyhow. They kind of understand that it's the regular patients.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The patients that haven't done a great job taking care of their teeth that they turn around that, you know,

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: they're trying to make a lot of problems.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe root canal, some restorative stuff. All of the sudden these people don't understand why it costs more and one of the problems I hate the fact that they pay for the dental insurance.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But I pay my team to explain the patient's dental insurance to them.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise they otherwise they don't understand their own benefit well enough to make the decision.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It drives me a little crazy. Like all of it falls to us to explain.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing is when we're explaining things are more expensive than then what their insurance might cover.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, and I say this a lot. I feel like we're already justifying things. We're already having to explain to them why they're insurance isn't good enough or whatever.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And once you're justifying it's almost like you're back into a corner a little bit. You're having that you're talking too fast. I sort of hate that.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe that part of it comes to the idea that dental insurance is understand this anchoring.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's the solution? I don't know that there is a solution.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Patients who have dental insurance oftentimes, I know this isn't this happens in other people's offices too.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not great at overcoming it in a lot of cases because I think my team, a lot of them, you know, their their spouses have dental insurance or they have

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of them would not do complete care either. A lot of them, if offered, well we need to do five crowns and it's going to be this much in the patients is well how much can I do?

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: How much I just want to take advantage of what my benefit gives whatever. So you end up doing a crown or two per year over a period time and that is generally not the ideal way to do it.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I hate this. I do it all the time and it's to the point where I'm used to doing it but when when you've got multiple things you're going to do for a patient in the patient as you which one is worse, which one would you do first?

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: All of a sudden you are given the duty of helping the patient explain their risk factors and how how I hate it.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Even as I'm talking about this, I'm like, I do this all the time. This is I've been doing this my entire career. The other thing is that you know, like I a lot of times I'm helping patients are making decisions for patients because I am so familiar with how dental benefits run everything, how that anchoring runs everything.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: How many times am I trying to explain an implant to a patient and then they understand that somehow or no, their insurance will likely cover a bridge better than they'll cover an implant.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I don't even happen all that often anymore but so much of the decision is made based on what their dental benefits cover and their dental bed benefit.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I have this anchor number that they're kind of stuck on. Just I want you to imagine if you are an officer or a dentist or a team member that deals with dental benefits, you know what I'm talking about and I want you to imagine the patient that comes in with a dental benefit that maxes out at $1,500 or how the patient is going to perceive their cost even though they're getting $1,500 more benefit out of it than someone who doesn't have insurance.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But the person who doesn't have insurance doesn't have that $1,500 number waving in front of them.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You know like how much is a bridge cost? A bridge how much is an implant cost?

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not asking how that you know compares with their $1,500. How where they're $1,500 go further all that sort of thing. It's definitely on some level even though it's a benefit.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a dollar amount benefit. It hangs patients up in choices and it sort of drives me crazy. I'm not saying this is clearly as I want to but it's something that really bugs me.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think honestly as dentists, particularly dentists like me that's dealt with a lot of patients that have dental benefits that we kind of try and work with.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Because like we said, I don't hate them for trying to use it. I think it changes the way I look at things. I think I think it changes the way that I present things sometimes because I already understand the patient has a benefit.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a world where someone has never dealt with benefits at all and all of a sudden the way that they present treatment and recommend treatment is very different than when they've got this number hanging over them.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So I believe that anchoring is a real thing in dentistry. I think that it's, I think that it's a problem because it's problem for dentists and it's a problem for patients.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe the answer is explaining dental benefits. I don't even know maybe sending out a newsletter or sending out email or something to their entire list explaining how dental benefits work in January or something like that.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And understanding you have ax amount. Even then, like saying that before you're actually talking about a treatment plan helping patients understand this is what your dental benefit gets you and so if we discuss and come together with that you have a need.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Your dental benefits may well help you with this but your dental benefits don't actually have anything to do with your condition. That always bugged me so much because I think patients have a hard time understanding it.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, burned out dentists like myself who've been dealing with this benefit thing for so long. I think we limit ourselves somewhat because of this number as well. So I think that's real. I think that's real.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I think dentistry sort of hung this anchor around everyone's neck maybe not even realizing that's what we were doing. My guess is when dental benefits were first a thing we thought it was a great thing. I know for a fact that dental benefits used to cover a lot more dentistry because they covered significantly more.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I was charging $500 a crown when I started in Sagina in the late 90s. Well, when you got $1500 of benefit and it covers 90% of the crown all of a sudden I'm doing multiple crowns on people and they're still not paying very much right. So I've seen this happen in my career where now you're like the same benefit and they're they're lucky to get a crown if they want to have you know preventive treatment. It's it's just a harem as it's this number that is limited patients feel like this is a limit.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the amount of dental care they no one should need more than this and that is there's no reason for them to think that except I feel sort of like dentistry and HR people and all that have kind of let them let them believe that I think it's I think that's that's the problem.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It limits everyone mentally because there's this weird number that's sitting around that you know the amount of care they should need should somehow hover around this number even though it has just nothing to do with that except it's the potentially the crappy benefit program that their HR people bought for them.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little nuts that we've built our practices and our practice lives and our in the way that we treat patients in some ways around this thing. And I know that there's dentists out there that don't do that in God bless you, but I think the reality is a lot of it comes back to the thing you know it's not the patients fault. It's not the patients fault they want to you know if you had dental benefits if you had benefits like this too you want to use them why wouldn't you they're there to be used so it's it's a hot mess or it's a hot mess price anchoring and anchoring in general

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Is the reason the dental benefit suck that is the story I would love to talk about this in the very dental podcast group if you're not a member yet you need to go to Facebook

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Request look up very dental and request an invite to get into the very dental group. I've had people tell me I couple episodes ago I said, you know, I might open this up to make it a big shit show like you'll dental vaccination was and I had multiple people say don't do that. So I guess I'm not going to do that for right now or keep it relatively small.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's I think we have around 800 people in the group. There's no garbage fires going on. I don't know maybe we could start a garbage fair, but I think everyone or almost everyone in the group is a listener of the podcast on some level. So you already know that much about the people in there if you want to join you haven't joined it.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: As for an invite, you're going to use one of five passwords or use all five of mine. I care any of them. I got pop a Randy lips come McQuathy hornbrook or Timmerman any of those five will get you in and I'm always so impressed because I get a lot of you know every people who request use different ones maybe they've heard it been different places. I don't know what's kind of cool. So join the Facebook group. Let's talk about anchoring. I think it's a real thing. I think if I could tell a brand new dentist anything I would say be where that right off the bed.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I understand that this number is hanging in the air, whether you mean it to or not and it's a limiting.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It limits the way we and our patients think about dental care in a lot of cases because it's some sort of random number that their HR people figured out.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a ton for listening to show I really appreciate it. Thanks to let me ramble. I got a lot of fair stuff to do in the next week so say prayer for me.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate you guys listening. We'll catch you next episode.