AME: The Grass is Always Greener

[00:00:00] Alan Mead is a dentist with too much time on his hands and too much recording equipment

[00:00:15] in his basement. Armed with an obsession to bring entertaining and informative content

[00:00:20] to the dental world in a way that's never been done before, I give you the Alan Mead experience.

[00:00:27] Well hello and welcome to another episode of the Alan Mead experience. I'm your host, Dr. Alan Mead.

[00:00:34] I'm a dentist, podcaster and eclipse watcher. If all went correctly, I am an eclipse watcher.

[00:00:42] Interestingly, my family and I are going to split out of here. It's Sunday afternoon, Sunday morning,

[00:00:50] the day before the eclipse and we are driving down to Cleveland, Ohio area to see the eclipse.

[00:00:57] So I may have a story of nightmarish traffic in cloudy skies. I may have had a glorious look at the eclipse.

[00:01:05] We'll see. We shall see. I'm allegedly going to be running into Dr. Kevin Fryer down there

[00:01:11] because the hotel we were able to book in is near his office actually.

[00:01:16] So I may be watching the eclipse with Kevin. So hey, we may have a chance to record a podcast

[00:01:23] or may not. We may just be able to see him and his family and his dogs and all that stuff.

[00:01:28] So we'll see. So this is the pre-eclipse and hopefully the world is not ended.

[00:01:33] But if it has, I think I have a pretty good episode for you. So we got that going for us.

[00:01:37] So I got a couple of things I want to talk to you about.

[00:01:40] First thing, right before we left for spring break, which was last week, I picked my guys up from school

[00:01:51] their last day of school and I brought them over to 7-Eleven, which is a pretty common thing for us to do.

[00:01:59] We've all trained each other to the after-school treat is to sneak by 7-Eleven and pick up a snack.

[00:02:07] It's probably not the healthiest of habits, but it's kind of wonderful on some level.

[00:02:13] So we do that quite often. So I go into 7-Eleven. This is 7-Eleven close to the school that Jacob goes to.

[00:02:20] And we go there constantly so the people there kind of know us and it's nice.

[00:02:25] But I remember being behind three people in line.

[00:02:31] And for the first time, I noticed that there's a sign up.

[00:02:36] And it's a sign that in Michigan, maybe they don't have it everywhere, but in Michigan, you see this kind of sign

[00:02:42] in every establishment that sells cigarettes, right?

[00:02:47] The signs are kind of funny. I'll read one of them to you.

[00:02:51] Like this is on the door of a gas station by me.

[00:03:10] So this is like a very official sign. This is a sign that I'm assuming some governmental agency has required them to do.

[00:03:17] And here's another one. This one says, secondhand smoke kills over 38,000 Americans each year.

[00:03:23] So basically these are the messages that at some point they were going to require were going to be on every package of cigarettes

[00:03:30] and anything that's tobacco related. They're scare tactics.

[00:03:34] They're basically pointing out how what an awful choice you're making.

[00:03:38] And I'm assuming they put this up there so that people make a different choice.

[00:03:44] I don't know that that's the case. I don't really know the background.

[00:03:47] I literally, they've probably been here for a long time. I only just noticed them right before we left for spring break.

[00:03:52] And I thought, but the best part about me noticing it was that I was in line behind three people

[00:03:59] and each of the three people were buying multiple packs of cigarettes while I just noticed that sign.

[00:04:06] I'm thinking to myself, hmm, that is really interesting.

[00:04:09] First off, far be it for me to say that the government knows anything about human nature because let's be perfectly honest.

[00:04:14] They don't. They don't know anything about human nature.

[00:04:16] I think that someone somewhere must have decided that these scare tactics signs posted in front of the place where you might buy cigarettes

[00:04:27] will definitely help people change their mind about not making this poor choice of buying cigarettes or chewing tobacco.

[00:04:34] And let's be honest, it doesn't work at all. I mean, a proof positive, like I said, three people didn't notice the signs,

[00:04:40] couldn't like we're just jonesing for their next cigarette and that was that.

[00:04:45] And it makes me laugh because I have to admit I thought about a lot of the oral hygiene instruction

[00:04:55] in oral hygiene pestering we do of our patients because I had this conversation with Sean, my teenager, my 16 year old and I've asked Jacob as well.

[00:05:08] And it isn't that I have necessarily drilled it into them necessarily.

[00:05:12] I said, Sean, what causes cavities? What makes your teeth? He says not brushing your teeth.

[00:05:18] I said, OK, but like what is it that you eat that causes cavities? He says, oh, sugar.

[00:05:23] Everyone knows everyone knows that everyone knows what's bad for your teeth. Everyone knows that.

[00:05:30] And so on some level, I don't understand the public health message going on here.

[00:05:40] I don't really get it. Do we really believe that the choices people make like this are an information problem?

[00:05:48] Like if we were just able to deliver the correct information to these people at the right time, they would make a different choice.

[00:05:55] I think that's insane. I only wonder how much money is spent on a program like this that literally, I'm sure people laugh at.

[00:06:02] They see these ridiculous signs and they just laugh at them.

[00:06:05] I just don't understand. Human nature is a matter of these kinds of things change because someone wants to change them.

[00:06:14] People stop smoking cigarettes not because they wake up and realize, oh my gosh, these are really harmful.

[00:06:19] I'm really hurting myself. No one is like that. They quit smoking cigarettes when they decide it's time.

[00:06:26] I know more about this than most having recovered from opiate addiction.

[00:06:34] I knew that I wasn't. No one takes opiates and thinks this is normal. However, they just get into their groove.

[00:06:40] You don't think about it. It's just what you do. Same thing with cigarette smoking and alcohol and all this stuff.

[00:06:45] And frankly, your dietary choices, what you do about taking care of your teeth.

[00:06:50] There are plenty of your patients that brush a couple times a year, probably right before they come into your office.

[00:06:59] No one shows up with giant calculus bridges and is doing a good job brushing their teeth.

[00:07:05] Now maybe there are some patients that delude themselves into thinking that they're doing something well, but I don't think so.

[00:07:10] I think they're either telling us what they want to hear, which is also known as lying, or they really do a terrible job and they don't know any better.

[00:07:18] Now the question is, is there a way to educate a patient to do a better job with home care that they'll soak in?

[00:07:26] I don't know. That's a whole other story. I just don't know.

[00:07:29] But I tend to think that the thought that everything going on is an information problem.

[00:07:39] We're hung up on that as professionals, as people. It's an information.

[00:07:44] If they only knew, they would make a better choice. That's never how it works. It's just not how it works.

[00:07:48] People know what's not good for them and sometimes they choose it anyhow.

[00:07:52] In fact, a lot of times they choose it anyhow. Let's be honest.

[00:07:55] We as human beings are excellent at making poor choices and make poor choices all the time.

[00:08:00] Whether it's getting the dessert when you probably shouldn't have or buying another pack of cigarettes at 7-Eleven when there's a sign telling you that you're signing your own death certificate or something like that, or whatever.

[00:08:13] We make poor choices all the time. I've talked about this incessantly on the podcast.

[00:08:19] I just think that people don't change their behaviors because someone gives them more information. That's just very rare.

[00:08:30] There might be some times when it happens. If you can think of one, I'd love it if you'd put it up in the Facebook group.

[00:08:34] But I just don't think that's a real thing. I think that people change when it hurts enough.

[00:08:38] That's really what I've found. These silly signs or us scolding people for not flossing well enough, I just don't see that changing people's behaviors.

[00:08:50] It was just sort of funny. This again came about because I saw these crazy signs in 7-Eleven and three people in front of me all desperate to buy cigarettes.

[00:08:59] It was pretty awesome.

[00:09:01] The other thing I wanted to tell you about, I thought this was interesting. I think I'm going to title the episode The Grass is Greener or something like that because I had an appointment with a new foot doctor, podiatrist last week.

[00:09:15] I'll be honest with you. I talked about having this wound on my foot years ago. Back in 2022, I stepped on some glass, got this kind of open sore on my foot that wouldn't heal.

[00:09:28] Of course, I am diabetic. I'm type 2 diabetic. I'm very well controlled, but I'm type 2 diabetic.

[00:09:33] At one point, I realized that I was in wound care for like 10 months at this place. I would go in religiously every week, 10 months.

[00:09:42] It got better, but it never really completely healed. I suspect had I stayed in wound care with that place, I would probably still be in wound care right now.

[00:09:52] I suspect they would just keep treating it the way that they're treating it. No one there had any kind of mindset about orthopedic concerns or anything like that.

[00:10:02] Now, here's the thing that tipped me off. I had a cut on the top of my foot at one point and it bled a little bit and I put a band-aid on it.

[00:10:11] Guess what? It healed. It healed like nothing. It healed so far. It healed. It was gone in three days. It healed.

[00:10:18] I also trim my toenails on occasion, as one does. And occasionally you'd zap your toenail and you...

[00:10:27] And I have blood flow like crazy. I can promise you that. I have blood ligament stuck to it. And everything heals like that.

[00:10:32] So why is this one not healing? Well, turns out I have the highest arches on the face of the earth.

[00:10:37] It was really funny. The technical term for it is pescavis or pescavis or cavus. I don't know exactly.

[00:10:46] But it's basically super high arches. And I don't know exactly why they happen, but I have really high arches.

[00:10:53] And frankly, I talked with the podiatrist about it a little bit and I said,

[00:10:57] So would you say... I've never been diagnosed with this, but would you say that I have pescavis and he laughed?

[00:11:05] I think pescavis is probably in the podiatric world a description much like a cusp of carabelli would be.

[00:11:13] It's more of an anatomic finding. It isn't a disease or anything like that.

[00:11:17] It's nothing that you necessarily look at and treat unless it's causing a problem.

[00:11:21] So he laughed and he said, I would say you have pescavis maximus.

[00:11:25] So I have like the highest arches this podiatrist has ever seen. My feet are super jacked up.

[00:11:30] And frankly, I have some neuropathy for my diabetes, but also my feet just hurt because they're kind of screwed up.

[00:11:37] And he said, the reason this isn't healing is because you have a total of three points of contact when you walk.

[00:11:43] And one of the points of contact is on this wound where this wound is. That's why it won't completely heal.

[00:11:50] He's like, I'm going to send you to my... It's not someone who makes appliances.

[00:11:57] I have a custom boot and I actually have some custom diabetic shoes that were made for me that have done literally nothing for me.

[00:12:04] I've worn them for months and months and months and they just... It always stays about the same.

[00:12:10] So I gave up for like a year. Honestly, I gave up on any kind of treatment on this wound.

[00:12:14] I just basically wore a bandage over it and changed it daily and that was about it.

[00:12:18] Which is honestly, I was pretty hopeless for a while.

[00:12:22] I'm like, this is just the way life's going to be for a long time. It's going to be sore on this foot

[00:12:25] and I'm going to have a hard time walking on this foot and that's just what it is.

[00:12:29] So I went to this podiatrist and he looked at it and all the things I thought he was going to tell me

[00:12:34] about how I was terrible for not having follow through with wound care

[00:12:37] and that you're going to need to go back, blah, blah, blah. He didn't say that at all.

[00:12:40] He looked at my diabetic shoes and boot and he didn't say that they were garbage

[00:12:45] but he did say these aren't going to help. These will not help for your problem.

[00:12:49] Which frustrating because the amount of money that I paid for them

[00:12:53] and my insurance paid for them and all this stuff is frustrating

[00:12:56] but that's water under the bridge apparently.

[00:12:58] So I am no longer wearing the custom appliances, orthotics shoes that they made for me.

[00:13:05] He said this needs to be unweighted so he's going to send me to a shoe specialist

[00:13:08] to bring a pair or two of shoes that you like to wear

[00:13:11] and he's going to customize your shoe.

[00:13:13] He's going to cut out an area that completely offweights this sore

[00:13:17] and it will heal once we do this.

[00:13:19] And so I'm thinking myself, can you imagine like the amount of hope

[00:13:22] that having someone say something so matter of fact like,

[00:13:25] can you imagine walking around with a horrible toothache for months or years

[00:13:29] and finally being afraid to consult a dentist,

[00:13:32] going to see a dentist and the dentist is, oh I can take care of this.

[00:13:34] We need to get the infection out of this tooth

[00:13:36] and he's going to take care of this.

[00:13:38] The treatment has not happened yet although I have to say

[00:13:41] he did the debrisment of the wound that hadn't been done for more than a year

[00:13:45] and it actually felt better almost immediately.

[00:13:48] So I trust him implicitly but so it isn't healed,

[00:13:52] it isn't cured but I have hope for the first time in about a year

[00:13:55] which is pretty great in any case.

[00:13:58] As I am always want to do as a practice owner

[00:14:02] and having been a dentist for 20 some years,

[00:14:04] I always look at every medical office in medical situation

[00:14:07] and compare it to my dental office because that's what I know

[00:14:10] and that's just, you know how that goes.

[00:14:12] But this guy is very friendly, he's really friendly,

[00:14:16] he's talkative not in an annoying way but in like a,

[00:14:19] he just likes conversation and we were talking

[00:14:22] and I asked him, I said, okay so,

[00:14:24] and actually just a very quick aside,

[00:14:26] my son had a medical emergency while we were on spring break.

[00:14:30] It was not a serious medical emergency.

[00:14:33] We were in Indiana, he ended up needing a small surgery

[00:14:37] and they just did it in Indiana while we were there

[00:14:39] which is amazing.

[00:14:40] Like we took him to this particular ER

[00:14:44] that had a pediatric hospital,

[00:14:45] there was a resident on duty at midnight

[00:14:48] or wherever when they went in

[00:14:49] and they did this surgery and it's freaking amazing.

[00:14:51] Now I laugh because I asked my wife,

[00:14:53] my wife took him and I stayed home with my other son

[00:14:55] or stayed in the hotel room with my other son

[00:14:57] and they didn't talk about money at all.

[00:14:59] We have no idea what it's going to cost.

[00:15:00] We have insurance, they took our insurance card.

[00:15:02] They didn't talk about money, they did nothing.

[00:15:04] So literally again in the classic medical situation

[00:15:07] it could cost $0.

[00:15:09] Our insurance could have covered all of it for all we know.

[00:15:12] It could cost $7,000.

[00:15:14] I do not know.

[00:15:15] I have no idea no one told me anything

[00:15:16] and frankly the medical model is to never talk about money,

[00:15:21] always do all the treatment,

[00:15:23] don't have patients make choices regarding money.

[00:15:26] Never have a patient make it.

[00:15:27] They will make the choice or be mad at us

[00:15:29] when we send them to collections

[00:15:31] because they don't have enough to pay

[00:15:32] for what their part of this treatment is.

[00:15:34] But God help us if we actually talk about money

[00:15:37] because that's real.

[00:15:38] And I sort of teased him about it a little bit.

[00:15:40] Mind you, this doctor, whatever service he was providing me

[00:15:43] was like an office call.

[00:15:46] So I was not worried that they hadn't talked to me about money.

[00:15:50] At this point I'm happy to be seeing this guy.

[00:15:52] He's offering some pretty straightforward solutions

[00:15:55] to my problem.

[00:15:56] I'm loving it.

[00:15:57] But I sort of laugh because he was talking about

[00:15:59] some of the surgeries that you might be able to do

[00:16:01] for high arches like mine.

[00:16:02] You could tell, so yeah there are surgeries you could do.

[00:16:05] You don't want to do these.

[00:16:06] It was the undercurrent because there's always,

[00:16:09] for every surgery you do for something like this

[00:16:11] there's always sort of a downside to it.

[00:16:13] So I appreciated that too.

[00:16:15] And I was sort of teasing him

[00:16:17] about how much they talk about money in medicine.

[00:16:20] He said well, you know what we do?

[00:16:22] We show them the cost of the surgery

[00:16:25] and then when the patient's eyes bug out we say

[00:16:27] oh don't worry, we're not going to even come close to this.

[00:16:29] This is just what we're submitting to your medical insurance,

[00:16:32] your medical benefits.

[00:16:33] And he was saying, you know, we probably get $300 per thousand dollars

[00:16:39] we charge out on the regular.

[00:16:41] That's normal.

[00:16:42] And he said you dentists have it all figured out.

[00:16:45] They don't even take you back to get your crown

[00:16:47] until you've paid for it in full.

[00:16:49] And I mean in some cases that is true.

[00:16:51] I mean if you're a non-participating provider in dentistry

[00:16:53] that is exactly how it works.

[00:16:54] You probably haven't paid before you bring them back for crying out loud, which is fine.

[00:16:57] Not all offices are like that.

[00:16:59] If you're participating you might balance bill

[00:17:02] after the insurance is paid or you make some arrangement with the patient on some level.

[00:17:05] But the one thing that is very different about almost all dental offices

[00:17:09] versus almost all medical offices

[00:17:11] is that we talk about the financial aspects of the care.

[00:17:14] We don't just do it and then send them a bill

[00:17:17] and then hope they'll pay it.

[00:17:19] When people talk about, when you hear on the news

[00:17:22] people talking about medical bankruptcies and medicine, you know,

[00:17:25] that's what that is.

[00:17:26] When you get expensive care, no one talked about how much it was going to cost.

[00:17:29] You can't afford the part that they're going to charge you

[00:17:32] and they just send you to collections.

[00:17:34] That's the kind of bankruptcy that they're talking about.

[00:17:36] Let's be perfectly honest.

[00:17:38] This is like there's a lot of expensive medical procedures

[00:17:41] that are not covered and someone has to pay for them, I guess.

[00:17:45] Or not, but we don't ever have that conversation.

[00:17:48] In medicine that is the one thing that they don't do.

[00:17:51] They will not talk about money.

[00:17:53] Now of course the corollary to that rule

[00:17:56] is probably plastic surgery and dermatology.

[00:17:59] Anything that's like, anything that's elective,

[00:18:02] I suspect they have the exact same conversation

[00:18:04] that we have in dentistry most of the time.

[00:18:06] So it's just interesting.

[00:18:09] And he was convinced that being a dentist would be the way to be

[00:18:13] because then you could collect for what you do

[00:18:17] and you don't have to worry about the paperwork

[00:18:20] and you don't have to worry about so much.

[00:18:22] And I was laughing because I'm like,

[00:18:24] man, I have to say that there are times

[00:18:26] when I think being a physician would be awesome

[00:18:28] because you don't talk about that stuff.

[00:18:30] You just do it.

[00:18:31] Patience, can you imagine an office

[00:18:34] and maybe there are some offices where the patient base is so wealthy

[00:18:38] or they have sought you out because of your marketing and your skill set

[00:18:42] that they want what you have and they're ready to pay for it.

[00:18:45] I think most dental offices are more patients come in on a recall basis

[00:18:52] and hope you don't find anything

[00:18:54] and then if there is something that needs to be done,

[00:18:56] you're going to have to negotiate a payment situation.

[00:19:00] Some, obviously the people who are doing great

[00:19:03] are the ones who patients are seeking them out for care

[00:19:06] and they have to beat them off with a stick.

[00:19:08] That's a great situation to be in to be sure.

[00:19:10] My office is more of the regular mom and pop doc shop

[00:19:16] where I see a lot of people for recall

[00:19:18] and we are able to treat them.

[00:19:21] We try and be as preventive as possible, treat them preventively.

[00:19:24] But there's not a lot of full mouth rehabs going on in my office.

[00:19:27] Actually, there are zero full mouth rehabs going on in my office

[00:19:29] unless you count a denture as a full mouth rehab

[00:19:31] then there are some of those.

[00:19:34] But the reality is in medicine

[00:19:36] when you have a condition that's diagnosed

[00:19:39] and you need treatment, most of the time

[00:19:42] the doctor isn't wondering whether or not

[00:19:44] you're going to do the treatment.

[00:19:46] They figure if you're here that you're down to do the treatment

[00:19:48] and they'll figure with your insurance

[00:19:50] or whatever coverage you may or may not have

[00:19:52] they'll figure out how it gets paid later.

[00:19:55] And honestly for 26 years of negotiating

[00:20:00] with patients that don't really want to do treatment

[00:20:04] and don't really want to pay you for it,

[00:20:06] the idea of just seeing a patient without that

[00:20:09] dollar sign in between you is very appealing to me.

[00:20:13] I've had a conversation with the listener via text

[00:20:16] most recently and I am not alone in thinking

[00:20:19] that there would be a certain amount of appeal

[00:20:22] to just being the doctor that can explain treatment

[00:20:25] what I'm seeing and what kind of treatments there are

[00:20:27] without wondering whether or not the patient

[00:20:29] is serious about treatment at all.

[00:20:31] It's an interesting thing and so I explained this

[00:20:33] to my podiatrist and he laughed and he said,

[00:20:35] ah it's overrated.

[00:20:37] It'd be much better to be doing what you do.

[00:20:39] So basically between the two of us we all think

[00:20:41] the grass is greener on the other side.

[00:20:43] But I do think too it depends on your experience.

[00:20:47] I also think that this is a whole other thing

[00:20:52] probably worth another podcast at some point

[00:20:54] but it depends on how driven by money you are.

[00:20:57] And I think a lot of people hear me say that

[00:20:59] well everyone's really driven by money.

[00:21:01] I think everyone likes money.

[00:21:03] Everyone likes to, you know,

[00:21:05] I would love to have patients that came in

[00:21:08] just did it.

[00:21:10] Honestly if I could do a couple crowns on each patient

[00:21:13] I'd have like five or six of those lined up

[00:21:15] and knock out a couple crowns a day.

[00:21:17] That would be awesome.

[00:21:19] It would be awesome financially.

[00:21:20] I think it would be great for patients.

[00:21:22] But that's not what I have.

[00:21:24] I have a lot of bread and butter,

[00:21:26] single unit crowns, a lot of fillings,

[00:21:28] some extractions, some endo.

[00:21:30] I'm not really usual which I'm actually rather enjoying.

[00:21:33] But I have a bread and butter practice

[00:21:35] and so every day is a little bit different

[00:21:37] and you know what I have found is that

[00:21:39] I make more than enough

[00:21:42] but I don't make very much money compared to a lot of people.

[00:21:44] I'm not very driven by it.

[00:21:46] Everyone's like well everyone's driven by money.

[00:21:48] Not really because I live in a place

[00:21:50] with really low cost of living too

[00:21:52] so I don't need to make as much.

[00:21:54] But I look at the people coming out of dental school now

[00:21:56] they are going to have to be driven by money

[00:21:58] and that may sound kind of gross to a young dentist

[00:22:00] but understand, you know I'm hearing people

[00:22:04] with associates that are basically

[00:22:08] they have to live at home with their parents

[00:22:10] because all of the salary, all that they make

[00:22:12] at the dental office as an associate

[00:22:14] goes towards their student loan

[00:22:16] and I am certain that when they signed

[00:22:18] on the dotted line for those student loans

[00:22:20] no one mentioned that that's how it was going to be

[00:22:22] that you wouldn't be able to afford to buy a car.

[00:22:25] You wouldn't be able to afford to have your own place

[00:22:27] because the student loan debt that you're getting into

[00:22:30] for years and years and years is going to cripple you.

[00:22:33] So let's be perfectly honest.

[00:22:36] Dentists are not getting less driven by money.

[00:22:39] We're more driven by money.

[00:22:40] As a profession we are more driven by money.

[00:22:42] We're going to have to be.

[00:22:44] And I don't know exactly how that works

[00:22:47] into the first part of my conversation or I really don't

[00:22:49] and I wonder, I mean physicians also

[00:22:51] have huge loan debt as well

[00:22:53] and so how does this work out?

[00:22:55] In dentistry, technically you can push to do more

[00:22:58] elective care.

[00:22:59] You can push to do more high dollar, high ticket items.

[00:23:01] You can develop a skill set to do that if you want to

[00:23:04] and maybe that takes care of the money problem

[00:23:07] but it's interesting to me how things are going

[00:23:10] to move forward in this way.

[00:23:12] And I also don't know that the doctors

[00:23:15] seeing patients without that giant dollar sign

[00:23:18] in between them, I don't know how long that lasts

[00:23:20] either because at some point

[00:23:23] the patients have to have a financial

[00:23:27] responsibility for their care.

[00:23:30] They really do.

[00:23:31] I mean when you're doing this stuff

[00:23:33] and sending them a bill later,

[00:23:35] my favorite move is that I don't even get a bill

[00:23:37] from a lot of the places anymore.

[00:23:39] They just send you to collections right off the bat.

[00:23:41] That's my favorite.

[00:23:42] I had a blood test where I was mistakenly

[00:23:44] thinking that they had a credit card on file

[00:23:46] that they would just charge the credit card.

[00:23:48] Nope, but they also didn't send a bill.

[00:23:50] They just sent me to collections.

[00:23:52] That's really awesome.

[00:23:53] This is fantastic.

[00:23:54] The first time I hear about my lab test bill

[00:23:57] not being paid was when the collections guy calls me.

[00:24:00] This is fantastic.

[00:24:01] I love this.

[00:24:02] I just don't see that it's a sustainable system.

[00:24:06] Honestly, I hate to say it

[00:24:08] but at least us talking about money

[00:24:10] and explaining how much things are going to cost

[00:24:13] and what care options they may have

[00:24:15] at different levels of financial investment.

[00:24:18] That might be a better situation.

[00:24:20] I don't know how that works in medicine.

[00:24:22] I will say that it might be nice for a couple years

[00:24:24] where I can just treat patients

[00:24:25] and never even think about the money

[00:24:27] and still have a decent lifestyle.

[00:24:30] That might be awesome.

[00:24:31] I'm not sure that it's sustainable.

[00:24:33] Like I said, the grass is always greener on the other side

[00:24:36] but I will say that I'm excited

[00:24:38] to work with this podiatrist on my foot

[00:24:41] and it was just an interesting conversation,

[00:24:44] something that came to me.

[00:24:46] I hope you guys appreciate the thought process.

[00:24:48] I would love to hear what you think.

[00:24:50] Maybe you think I'm nuts

[00:24:51] because I said a lot of things that could be challenged here.

[00:24:53] I get it.

[00:24:54] So you should challenge me in the very dental Facebook group

[00:24:57] which is you go to Facebook,

[00:24:58] search under very dental Facebook,

[00:25:00] very dental and it'll come up very dental Facebook group.

[00:25:02] You have to answer a question

[00:25:05] and it's not really a question, it's a password.

[00:25:07] You have to give me one of five passwords.

[00:25:09] Let me see if I can remember the passwords offhand.

[00:25:11] Timberman, McWethy,

[00:25:13] Papa Randy, Lipscomb and Hornbrook.

[00:25:17] So I have five.

[00:25:18] They're different guests I've had on over the years

[00:25:21] that I have deemed to be password worthy apparently.

[00:25:24] So there's five of them.

[00:25:25] If you can give me all five, you're even cooler.

[00:25:27] It's a good Facebook group.

[00:25:28] It's a small Facebook group.

[00:25:29] We don't ask very much.

[00:25:31] It's not like constant conversation.

[00:25:33] It's pretty good though.

[00:25:34] It's not a bad Facebook group at all

[00:25:36] and there is no shenanigans.

[00:25:38] There's no BS.

[00:25:39] There's no name calling.

[00:25:40] It's just mellow.

[00:25:42] I do that because it's people who listen to the podcast.

[00:25:44] Those are the only ones that I market it to.

[00:25:46] Those are the only ones I let in because I have a password.

[00:25:48] So there you have it.

[00:25:49] Go to the very dental Facebook group.

[00:25:51] We'll have a conversation about this.

[00:25:52] I'd love to hear if you think I'm crazy

[00:25:54] or if you think I have this one right.

[00:25:55] And next time you're getting a pop at a cast station

[00:25:58] and see if you can find one of those signs, it's ridiculous.

[00:26:00] And it's also kind of hilarious.

[00:26:02] The fact that it's completely absurd,

[00:26:05] I sort of love that too.

[00:26:07] I kind of like the fact that it's so crazy

[00:26:09] that someone in the government decided

[00:26:12] millions of dollars worth being spent

[00:26:15] on this thing knowing that no one's

[00:26:17] because no one's even going to read in their paper.

[00:26:20] It's awesome.

[00:26:21] Alright, thanks a ton for listening you guys.

[00:26:23] I really appreciate it and we'll catch you next episode.

[00:26:45] Thank you.