Group Function: 3D Printers for Dummies with Dr. Russell Schafer and Dr. Chonway Tram

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[00:01:26] workflow. This is a production of the very dental podcast network.

[00:01:33] First, you take a group of very dental people. Then you add some interesting topics and a few

[00:01:47] microphones. Finally, add some laughs and collegial good cheer and you get the Group Function Podcast.

[00:01:53] Very dental people welcome to another episode of, hey this is a group function podcast with

[00:01:59] the man who coined the term Dr. Russell Schaeffer's with me. Russell how are you doing?

[00:02:03] I'm doing phenomenal today. How are you doing my friend? I'm good Russell. Introduce your

[00:02:06] friend because I will slaughter his name. I only heard it once. It is a Chauhontwey Tram.

[00:02:10] I was actually named after John Wayne for my dad Quinn Spellerite. I love that. Great. Now

[00:02:15] you'll remember for I'll always remember it. That's fantastic. Well, welcome to the show.

[00:02:19] Thank you. Thanks for having me. So I'm sitting here. This is one of several episodes I've

[00:02:24] recorded today. First off, I had I scoffed at the podcast booth. I thought, oh this

[00:02:31] is a joke. No, my God. I didn't sign up for anything. You did. No one, you come and

[00:02:34] deer. You want to come and deer? I did but no one else is in here. What are they going

[00:02:37] to kick me out tomorrow? There's people signed up. But I might make it uncomfortable to

[00:02:42] kick me out. It's a pretty good place to put the podcast. I pressed. It's like, I sat

[00:02:46] here and I'm like, well, why wouldn't I use this? What are they going to do? Yeah. So it's

[00:02:50] a booth that someone spent a bunch of money on is what it comes down to. They're not

[00:02:55] giving this stuff away for free. They are apparently big. This is free. This is free.

[00:03:02] You're going to get an invoice in the mail for this one. This is expensive for you. We

[00:03:07] don't know who the hell I am. We'll send it to Accuretta.

[00:03:11] What makes me laugh about this is that they want to have a podcast booth and they didn't

[00:03:17] quite know what to do with it maybe because it's really nice. It's got glass doors. It's

[00:03:23] got a big logo because they have, apparently the CDS Chicago Devil's Side has its own podcast

[00:03:28] filling you in which is vaguely sexual. I will say that from the, if you're in the gutter

[00:03:36] kind of boy and there's a lot of glatine.

[00:03:39] There's a lot of glass panels where people can look in and see what we're doing. Yeah.

[00:03:44] So far, pants still on but so far. It's still early in the day. We should provide a show.

[00:03:49] We could. We totally good. The glass windows are there for a reason. I feel like it's tempting.

[00:03:57] It's tempting. So Russell, everyone knows Russell. He does denturecee.com correct?

[00:04:02] Denturecee. That's totally oral. He's a podcaster. Exactly.

[00:04:07] Somewhere. Clint is somewhere. I don't know where the hell he is. I think he's running

[00:04:11] up. He's like running a marathon running. What I kind of remember about Clint though is

[00:04:13] he's either running a marathon or he's owning goats. Yeah, I mean, or yeah. I remember

[00:04:19] it. Voice of the industry, 2023. He was, he was a well we had well had dinner together.

[00:04:24] We did. Yes. He drank more than you and you drank a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was

[00:04:29] good night. Very good night. I remember it better than you guys. I suspect. No, I remember

[00:04:33] I was, I was not nearly as gone as Clint was. I was a puddle. But like I was not gone.

[00:04:38] I sat next to you and across from Clint. You give the sober guy. I sat next to you and

[00:04:43] across from you. No, no, you were sending no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it was

[00:04:46] across from me and it was on the table. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, I was going to

[00:04:50] say between you two guys that would have been really. No, no, no, because Clint was,

[00:04:54] Clint was gone. Yeah, I was like, I was like, y'all can leave. Like I will watch him. Yeah,

[00:04:57] because he was so he doesn't die. Right, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Because Kelly would

[00:05:01] get mad and get mad at me. Kelly was wife of a man in me. Yeah. But no, Alan, I thought

[00:05:05] we talked about if you could, if you could, if you could go to the next one. I want to

[00:05:08] tell you, I want to, yeah, I want to talk about. John, where do you come from, John,

[00:05:12] wait, what's the, what's the, is that a like a stereotype? Like, you're trying to ask

[00:05:17] me my gnash now. You guys talking about accurate, do you work for accurate? Are you a dentist?

[00:05:22] What's the story? No, I'm a dentist. You are. I'm sorry, I thought you brought like an

[00:05:26] accurate a room. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're both going to accurate

[00:05:31] a part and later on. I see. No, no, I didn't work up for that is what you say. I am a clinical

[00:05:35] dentist in Southern California that just happened to stumble upon digital dentistry and 3D printing.

[00:05:40] Nice. And we've been talking about, we've been talking about 3D dent, finished printing

[00:05:44] for the last like two hours or so. Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're talking

[00:05:48] a lot of shit. Yeah, there was it's okay. A lot that that went into that conversation.

[00:05:52] Yes. So, okay, so I'm going to ask you guys this because you guys do it. Okay. So I have,

[00:05:56] I've already got one opinion from Cadre who sells a whole bunch of printers, of course.

[00:06:00] So I have one opinion, but for someone. Okay, here's my situation. My lab guy who does

[00:06:06] my, my crown of bridge and you know, bought the suite. Literally, I have a two suite building.

[00:06:12] I own one suite. He owns the other suite. They're connected by a little. I can throw a rock

[00:06:16] at my lab guy any time I want. It's awesome. It's fantastic. Perfect. He's got, he just

[00:06:20] got the mill and it's up and running. We got to get a printer. So it's a lab that he'll

[00:06:24] probably use for lab, but I want to be able to use it. So the question is, for a printer,

[00:06:30] where is the balance for someone like me or maybe us because he's a lab, he's going

[00:06:35] to use it a little differently than Dennis would maybe, but between ease of use and crazy

[00:06:41] functionality can do everything. That's two totally different worlds. It is. It is. The lab

[00:06:46] world and the clinical world. Okay. Okay. You're asking what, what's the best thing to fuck

[00:06:52] around with? Because it does really as a dentist. Yeah. Which one has the easiest work flow.

[00:06:57] Yep. Because I'm stupid. No, no, no, no, he does know how to do it. So maybe we need two

[00:07:01] printers and is what we're saying. Well, I mean there's so many good choices right now.

[00:07:04] The reality is that when we talk about 3D printing in general, right, the CERC workflow

[00:07:11] that we are familiar with where hit this, push this button, get this here. We're not there

[00:07:17] yet. Yeah. It is not there yet in 3D printing. Yeah. There's still a lot of steps involved.

[00:07:22] There's still a lot of things now. Resins are getting better, things are getting better.

[00:07:26] Things we can do is super amazing with it. But the ease of use is not anywhere close

[00:07:31] to that type of workflow that we want it to be. Got it. So when you say, hey, which printer

[00:07:37] is the best? Honestly, any printer will work. Sure. You know, you know, Sprint rays, we

[00:07:42] throw that out there because it's a very popular one. Yeah. Accrad it because me and Russ

[00:07:46] are familiar with it. You know, I see you guys a good one for labs. Yeah. You know, there's

[00:07:51] so many other ones on the market. It really just comes about learning the system. Yeah.

[00:07:56] Learning what you should expect from it. Yeah. You know, do a lot of dentists because

[00:08:01] my thing is like, well, what's the one for old guys and dumb guys that don't want to

[00:08:06] learn very much? Sounds like Sprint rays, what everyone says because the workflow is probably

[00:08:10] the simplest. Is that right? Old guys, dumb shit people probably don't get into it. I mean,

[00:08:15] that's what you see. There's old dumb shit guy sitting here who's thinking about it. I

[00:08:19] should say this like my laptop Tim Lane, he's 70 years old. He has a soul. He has a frozen

[00:08:25] like the soul is a darn easy. It's a pretty darn easy system for accurate. He has a frozen

[00:08:30] which is not the easiest to use but still hurt. It let it go. It really comes down to

[00:08:35] frozen. I just had to let it go. Yeah. Yeah. Got you. So whenever they say frozen,

[00:08:41] did it pH frozen? Exactly. Is it like pH fat and pH frozen? Exactly. So frozen is

[00:08:47] the kind of thing. Okay, got it. But he's got those two systems right now and they're

[00:08:51] both. They're all kind of easy to learn on. Here's the thing. As a dentist, it's the reverse

[00:08:56] question. It's not, hey, I want to get this to get it. What do I do where this can

[00:09:02] be beneficial? Yeah, where is it going to be useful for me? And when it comes down to

[00:09:05] it, we talk about night guards dentures. That's literally right now the two biggest

[00:09:10] things. Immediate dentures, temporary dentures, dentures in general, night guards basically

[00:09:17] those are the easiest procedures to do with a 3D printer. Okay. And that is something

[00:09:23] that an old guy like you who is super familiar with removable cross. Yeah. Right? Because

[00:09:29] your experience is a damn impossible. Some of you don't like it very much. Yeah, that's

[00:09:32] it. So now imagine a insult to Ross. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So it's a simpler workflow.

[00:09:39] It's easier to do right and all the frustrations that we have about removable cross is gone.

[00:09:45] Like that's what 3D printing can do. That's why it's so freaking amazing. Okay. Right?

[00:09:50] You can talk more about the Russian. No, I mean, we can't. I mean like that's I think

[00:09:54] that gets back to your question. Like your question initially was like what printer should

[00:09:57] I buy that my lab tech will both both of us use? And I don't think there is one. No, I

[00:10:03] like literally if you buy one printer for both of us use, you're both me pissed. It's kind

[00:10:06] of there. There's no separate questions. Okay. So let's just pretend. Well, let's take

[00:10:11] a second to say back like it and both of our offices. I right now own a bunch of printers.

[00:10:16] I don't like literally. Yeah, but you're the. I am. But how many but how many printers do

[00:10:21] you know six six. Like like you guys know, we both are not for me man. It's like there's

[00:10:28] always the n plus one. Like how many men what's the correct number of bikes? Yeah, n plus

[00:10:32] one. I like that. I like the quote from center of field Graham. He said he says. I something

[00:10:41] to the is about shotguns. He says I have. I have more shotguns than I need but less

[00:10:46] than I want. Exactly. That was Phil Graham center of field Graham from Texas. So the man

[00:10:51] understands my brain. Yeah, so yeah, but so you guys what drives you to buy a new printer

[00:10:57] because it functionality or just because you love printers and you're interested. Actually

[00:11:00] what drives me to buy new printers whenever I find new resin. Okay. Because like I want

[00:11:04] one resin per printer. Okay. Because like I love interesting. So you okay that does make

[00:11:08] some sense. You have to goof around with like I don't like changing out vats ever. Okay.

[00:11:13] You change out vats. That's when things break. Okay. Like I just want a poor resin enjoy

[00:11:17] into a printer and print you know, that's interesting. You say that. So like it so and it

[00:11:22] also allows you to try new printers just for fun too. Like there's that it does but it

[00:11:26] is not not not not that I just don't want to. I want just a poor resin into a vat and

[00:11:32] print. It's called the automate the system better. Yeah, right. Yeah. He's just going

[00:11:37] to keep. Makes more sense to have different printers if you're using him for different

[00:11:40] things. So in other words, you're printing your dentures on one. You're printing your

[00:11:44] your your temperatures or whatever out of another. I heard my dentures on one. I print my teeth

[00:11:48] on another. I print my night guards on another. I print my models on another and it's just

[00:11:53] simple as the workflow. That's what you listeners may think Russell has more printers than he

[00:11:57] needs but I do. I do. I do. I need. But it just not more than he wants. Exactly.

[00:12:03] Much like center to fill Graham. Exactly. Okay. But I don't know what's your experience

[00:12:06] on way. What what how do you decide when you want to print? Give me something I will

[00:12:15] make it work. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Oh, you want to give me this for free and have me

[00:12:20] speak on it. Yeah. Yeah. I'll figure it out. Figure out where you make it work. Yeah.

[00:12:24] So to me, I will horror myself out to any company willing. He can be bought. That might

[00:12:31] be the title. He can be bought. He can be stupid that we don't recognize that as dentists

[00:12:36] that yes, most of us are bought. Recognize it. Hey, buy me but here's your thing. I'm going

[00:12:43] to know what the hell I'm doing. Yeah. Right? And I'm going to show you how to do it. Yes,

[00:12:47] I'm bought and I'm going to own up to it. So are you are you saying that what's the segway

[00:12:52] for us? Are you saying you're an influencer of some kind? See, I'm a podcaster by heart.

[00:13:02] That was that was what we call in the business a segway. It is. Yeah. I do things to figure

[00:13:10] it out. Yep. Right? And if that, you know, when we say influencer, that's in to me, that's

[00:13:16] a newer generation. Oh, yeah. That's one. Right? Yeah. Back then, we call it, well, you

[00:13:21] know, I just fucked up more than you. Yeah. That's what we were experience. I mean,

[00:13:25] yeah, I mean, that's the, yeah, that's a nice way of saying is that we're experienced. Right?

[00:13:28] Because we're experienced now we're going to share our experiences with you. Right. But

[00:13:32] the reality is, yeah, we screwed up way more than you. Yeah. Yeah. So but we call those influencers.

[00:13:36] Yeah. Yeah. Right? That's what it is. Well, it's, it's, it's, we have more experience.

[00:13:40] We mess up more than you. Also, we take really good selfies. That's the influence.

[00:13:45] Yes. You can't, you can't be an influencer without showing that you're an influencer.

[00:13:50] Like if you're an influencer, if yeah, I was going to say it's also neon signs. Yeah.

[00:13:56] Neon signs behind you.

[00:13:58] Preferably a really good like studio setup with a big, beautiful ring light in front of your

[00:14:03] camera. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Anyway. I, okay. So I have a beef with influencers

[00:14:10] because there's a part of me that goes, I mean, I've been podcasting for 10 years.

[00:14:13] I didn't start podcasting because I wanted to be an influencer and arguably of all the people

[00:14:17] that you know in, in online space. I have used my platform the worst of ever anyone. I have,

[00:14:23] I have, I have, I have not come up with a great class. I've not come up with an academy.

[00:14:31] I've not taught people how to, I talk into a microphone and tell fart jokes. Yeah.

[00:14:36] That's kind of what it is. So I've probably done it as badly but also I don't, I don't feel like

[00:14:41] okay, I look at a lot of Instagram embarrassingly a lot of Instagram

[00:14:46] and it's bad for me. It's not good for me. It's bad for my mental health.

[00:14:50] Prove terrible. I mean, literally your whole story could have been like, I want to be like a

[00:14:54] mental health guru because you're because you've your addiction story behind. Yeah. You can like,

[00:14:58] let me, let me talk about like pay me a hundred bucks a month and I'll be your mental health guru

[00:15:03] with your with your background. That could be your influencer story rather than right there.

[00:15:06] I don't know man. It's really funny because I don't know if Russell spent a lot of time in recovery

[00:15:10] influencer space. I have, it's interesting because there's like now it's not, you're not an addict.

[00:15:17] No, never admit that you're an addict or an alcoholic. It's that you live a sober life. Right,

[00:15:21] sober lifestyle. So in other words instead of admitting to all the shitty horrible things you

[00:15:26] did when you're an addict, it's just that you're making better choices and you're living a sober lifestyle

[00:15:30] and you don't, like these people never refer themselves as alcoholics. I'm like, I refer to myself

[00:15:35] as an alcoholic or an addict depending situation because I kind of have to remember where I was.

[00:15:39] Yeah. I came from a pretty bad spot. Someone who is sober makes me feel like, oh they're just

[00:15:44] making better health choices. Like are you sober because beer has too many calories or are you

[00:15:53] sober because like you've just about flushed your life down the toilet? Like there's two very

[00:15:57] different things. And frankly like I said, I think about this in black and white terms. I'm like

[00:16:02] I could have lost it all. I mean I'm a dentist still because my oral surgeon buddy

[00:16:08] arranged the intervention on me. Who knows what would happen if I hadn't happened? So

[00:16:12] I can't look at it as an influencer. So now we're going to segue into

[00:16:17] what you're saying you're an accidental influencer. Yeah, that kind of is. Kind of that's really what

[00:16:23] it is. You're still an influencer. Yeah, you could do that. You could do that. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:27] Well and it was really funny. I used to speak on addiction. I gave my first talk about addiction in

[00:16:32] 2005 which seems like a long time ago but I realized now that I got sober, clean whatever you want to

[00:16:38] say in 2002. So like I was only three years sober. And I'm like and I look at someone who's

[00:16:43] who's talking about how their life is amazing at five years. I'm like dude you're still drunk man.

[00:16:47] You're like you're not even like five years as like when you've been around for a while you realize

[00:16:52] like my head was still foggy at that point. I'm out there talking so and some level it's a little bit

[00:16:57] I know. Well, well, well, granted I was talking about dentures at 2019. I don't know what

[00:17:01] it means 2016. Yeah. So that was three years. Yeah. So I guess it's about the same level right?

[00:17:05] Like we're like we're the same right now. Yeah, we're the same exactly. What what and

[00:17:10] and I don't talk that much about addiction now and I would I happily would right but what was

[00:17:15] funny when I tell my story it gets all emotional takes a lot out of me and so I just don't really do

[00:17:20] anything is I felt I'm I'm I'm sick human being. I couldn't just put together a slide deck and

[00:17:26] deliver it a hundred times. Yeah, I would always get I'd look at my slides and I'd redesign everything

[00:17:32] from the bottom up and I'm just like my wife couldn't stand to be around me because you know two

[00:17:36] weeks before every talk I'm losing my mind and stuff. I might be able to do that now because I don't

[00:17:40] I hate to say it but I don't think I care that much about this. Well, like good. I would spend so

[00:17:44] much time on slides that I kind of forget to rehearse the talk. That's part of the

[00:17:49] universe right? Like not caring anymore. Part of the influence is not caring anymore, right?

[00:17:53] Maybe. But I mean like how many influence out there? Like we were talking about earlier.

[00:17:57] Don't probably don't really care about what they're influencing about. Like I mean like literally

[00:18:03] I'm sure you've probably been approached by as a podcaster that has a priority,

[00:18:08] you probably have the biggest podcasting reach maybe and you you're at least in the top five. Yeah

[00:18:14] I would argue maybe okay top 10 you are definitely in the top 10. No, I'm the biggest. Okay,

[00:18:19] let's be perfectly honest. I'm the biggest. Yeah, Mark, Mark,

[00:18:22] costus is huge too but he puts out an episode every day so I can't keep up with his downloads.

[00:18:26] But by audience participation you're a little hard-largest. Yep. I am sure you've been approached by

[00:18:31] brands that you're like I'm not going to support you. Oh yeah, yeah, you're like fuck that. No,

[00:18:35] I just I'm because you're like I can't do something that's like I don't you're

[00:18:39] that's anathema to what I just don't answer the emails typically. I'm the worst. I'm the worst.

[00:18:44] I don't answer calls. I don't answer emails and also I almost never do anything different when

[00:18:48] people ask me to do it. Like I said that what people want we want to show dentistry as the human

[00:18:55] component of the douchebag behind it. Yeah, like man like this job sucks man it's hard. Yeah,

[00:19:01] if you give a shit about what do you do? It's hard. I was just talking to my best friend

[00:19:05] on the way here. I was driving and we talked about one of the problems of dentistry is that

[00:19:12] if man this is it's tough because okay. Hero donics which I get pushed into a lot. Yeah, we all do.

[00:19:20] Happens you know what happens with hero donics is because I care more than the patient does. That's

[00:19:25] wrong. I need to stop doing that. Like there's no upside to it even if I pull even if I pull a

[00:19:31] miracle it half kills you it's always a compromise and you care more than the patient does. That's

[00:19:36] what hero donics is right? Like the best is when they're like oh but I really want to save my teeth

[00:19:42] after they're like rotten nubs. Like 10 years ago you might have had that I really want to save my

[00:19:48] teeth but you're way past that now right? Yeah and I think that it would be who'd me to not

[00:19:57] care as much but I don't if that's hard for me. But here now this is where we go into say dude

[00:20:04] where does 3d printing go into all that? Okay see the man's a perfection this is where we go into it

[00:20:10] okay there's so many times you look at it tooth and say you know what what do we call it

[00:20:14] it's a guarded prognosis. Yeah right yeah. This teeth needs to come out. Restorantly speaking

[00:20:19] there's not enough feral dude there's so much decay 3d printing hey you know what you want a tooth

[00:20:24] in there why don't I make you something yes not as strong as a traditional crown at the same time

[00:20:30] not as costly but way more accurate that you can actually bond to yeah. How freaking cool is that?

[00:20:37] So you want to get some time and you're telling me that you can probably do that same day so now

[00:20:42] we don't have the we have the middle ground option. We have something to say hey you know what

[00:20:47] pull the tooth or get a porcelain's acornia crown for you know a thousand two thousand bucks

[00:20:53] or hey fuck it let's try to keep this tooth as long as possible with an affordable restoration where

[00:21:00] time will tell. Yeah but it's more accurate you can bond this damn thing in there and you know

[00:21:04] what if it lasts it lasts how cool is that well plus okay tell me how do you do the informed

[00:21:09] consent on that so the patient comes to you you've got one dentist that's gonna say we should take

[00:21:13] this to be what I actually tell the patient exactly yeah do you want to try some shit yeah yeah

[00:21:18] yeah and then back when you play Jesus take the wheel I mean they have to know what they're getting

[00:21:24] into yes right I'm like look man this hasn't been done a lot right this is not something that

[00:21:29] we normally do in dentistry but if you want to save the tooth I'm down to give it a shot

[00:21:34] but you have to know what comes with it here's the risk and then you also you also give them a very

[00:21:39] clear like this is the option you take when you don't want to lose the tooth this is the option you

[00:21:44] don't behave we buy some time we give this person probably and you're probably buying time that's

[00:21:49] probably the best we can hold for yeah and if we can say we can do that to me that's so cool

[00:21:54] truth is right because now what's something happens if something happens they're prepared for it

[00:21:59] they're mentally ready hey you know what we gave it a go yeah now let's pull it down and

[00:22:03] you know what what happens and this is one of the reasons that I probably still do here at Onyx

[00:22:08] is that sometimes it works sometimes you do a better job than you think in it last for a while

[00:22:13] the patient never remembers that it was heroic they never remember them but the worst part honestly

[00:22:18] is when they don't remember it's heroic yeah and they say why to give you all this money yeah

[00:22:22] you had to remind them this was heroic great conversation yesterday I was gonna do an

[00:22:25] ale meet experience I might still but she says it was a poor son fused as herconia or I'm

[00:22:31] forcing for you to zirconia so this was before we were milling zirconia crowns right and she said

[00:22:36] I gave you three thousand dollars for this crown and it broke well first off I know that the last time

[00:22:41] I did one of those like two thousand seven so that crown's been in there for 15 years or something

[00:22:46] and secondly I did a zirconia bridge right behind this tooth that was probably three thousand dollars

[00:22:51] I'm like I've never judged anyone three thousand dollars for a crown and I'm like we noted that the

[00:22:56] porcelain was broken off this pfz like the last two cleanings this is not new what came off when

[00:23:02] I was eating a hot dog I'm like maybe it was gonna break but like it's amazing what patients don't

[00:23:08] know it's amazing and they don't care as much as you do like I was starting to take some time

[00:23:16] to explain and I'm like this is wasting everything for me to explain to she's not hearing it any

[00:23:21] how she's gonna bitch about the same three thousand dollar crown because she's been telling that

[00:23:24] story everyone she can tell and I actually like this patient but it's just like it's amazing what

[00:23:29] they don't know that's why I worry about the herodonic stuff so we I mean we got to stop playing

[00:23:32] the hero right if you're going to play the hero it comes with the risks involved right fair

[00:23:37] I'm not going to give a shit more about this tooth than you do it's really that's really important

[00:23:43] concept that is it's really conversation honestly you have this cavity I gave you the option

[00:23:48] me and Russ we're talking about most of dentistry I don't give a shit how you look at it it's

[00:23:52] elective yeah right you have this cavity right except for attractions except for certain

[00:23:57] extractions yes I mean removing infection sure but right but we all know cavity progression

[00:24:02] is not linear it's not year by year this cavity slowly grows right what happens it's gonna stay

[00:24:08] the same stay the same sunflower seed yeah explode yeah right we know that so why are we pushing

[00:24:14] the patient right here they're informed of their what they need right again I'm not going to give a

[00:24:21] shit more about it than they are how do you feel like because okay so dentists know more about

[00:24:27] this shit than patients do they always do and I think a lot of us myself included at some point

[00:24:31] we try and explain and explain and explain and like do we are or are we just regurgitating what we're

[00:24:38] taught maybe but the point is why are we trying to explain like they don't care they come to us because

[00:24:46] we know more than they do right like it's it's patient-specific yeah I mean some patients I mean

[00:24:50] if you get an engineer in there yeah they want everything but the bottom line is like for the most

[00:24:54] part patients really they're not hearing what you're saying and I try so hard to communicate and I

[00:24:59] realized like after talking to this woman who the three thousand dollar crown she didn't hear she's

[00:25:04] never heard anything I've ever said my entire life and I've done some good work for her and actually

[00:25:07] I like her but it just it was a classic thing like oh this is gonna make a good podcast because it's

[00:25:11] just like as it happened I'm like well I know I've never charged three thousand dollars for crown

[00:25:17] I know that let me take a look oh three thousand we did a porcelain fuse or we we did a zirconia

[00:25:21] bridge that looks as good as the day that it went in and then we did a crown 15 years ago or some

[00:25:26] the porcelain broke up yeah sorry but and and I explained it she didn't hear it yeah you're right

[00:25:32] I shouldn't care as much as she does I don't I mean part of it is yes we shouldn't care as much at

[00:25:38] the same time are we speaking at the level of their understanding it's very hard because like I said

[00:25:44] as dentist we tend to speak as dentists what's your trick on that the way I'm speaking to you right now

[00:25:51] is exactly how he talked to my patient he actually actually curses at his patients like no you don't

[00:25:56] curse at the patient you curse at the condition you guys like hey dog am I fucked yes yes you are

[00:26:03] but again now we have a starting point right now we know now we know this is because this is

[00:26:09] what's gonna take for me to fix it this is how much effort I have to put in to fix it yeah are

[00:26:14] you down for it or not yeah right now they know severity yeah not just hitting them in the wallet

[00:26:19] you're you're presenting to him hey do you have my eyes that's a really interesting point because

[00:26:23] the thing about it is is that I tend to not I like that because you're saying there are some things

[00:26:30] we do that are pretty easy there's this is a hard thing this is a hard thing for like this

[00:26:34] literally be difficult for me to do in in it might not even work like so that so the reality is

[00:26:40] is that because I think that it's easy for a patient to look at a dentist as he's a dentist he does

[00:26:46] all the dental things I'm like you know some things are easy you know really hard thing is like it's

[00:26:51] because we were taught this dental ideal that as doctors were the ones that know everything yeah which

[00:26:56] means we have to approach our patients like we know everything yeah you know what there are times

[00:27:02] when we look at a tooth where we see it's a class two on one patient we're doing a crown on another

[00:27:08] patient that's just a filling why how hard is that job for me that's a great one and for me to

[00:27:14] talk to the patient say dude this shit's fucked up it's hard to shit yeah I'm letting you know

[00:27:18] that right now yeah right this is hard to do your patient where you go okay open wide I am because

[00:27:24] we're so used to saying we're used to so used to saying to the patient suck it up get used to it

[00:27:29] hey you know what no this is hard whatever we're mechanics right no no we yeah I'm the best dentist

[00:27:34] out there we're taught to lift ourselves up yeah and fake it to the patient then this was hard

[00:27:39] and then they see the frustration they see all of it yeah right but when we release it to the

[00:27:45] patient ahead of time say hey this situation is gonna be fucked it's hard this is what you're

[00:27:48] gonna be in for this typically takes me an hour in your case I have no freaking clue I love that

[00:27:55] I love but you're setting up expectation yeah you're setting up that hey man this guy cares he's

[00:27:59] actually putting it also also you're a human being you just said some things like this are easy

[00:28:04] summer hard yours is hard I'm a human being and this is you know this is how hard it's gonna be

[00:28:09] for me to do this right that's my office right so my office there's 10 other dental offices

[00:28:14] within one square mile right is it a competition with other dentists no because you know what the

[00:28:19] other offices grew up to come to me yeah why yeah it's how you talk to the patient yeah right it's

[00:28:24] how we say hey we're gonna do this it's gonna be amazing for you right we promise them things

[00:28:30] dentistry hey we're gonna do this it's better for you but as seasoned dentist that we are we're like

[00:28:37] shit is it really better for you you question that I'm like dude if I'm doing this I have to make

[00:28:41] it better for you which means I actually have to think about it yeah about your occlusion your bite

[00:28:45] your health after think about all these things and whether it's a filling or a crown or an implant

[00:28:51] I'm like there's so many factors that I have to think about now to make sure this works you need to

[00:28:56] understand what I have to do to make this room for you I really like that because what you're doing

[00:29:01] is your handing the responsibility to the patient and then it's still their choice yeah but but I

[00:29:06] think also you got to take so much responsibility to in that case you know because like at a certain

[00:29:10] point the patient is trusting you to make it your offering choices great you know if you walk into a

[00:29:16] situation knowing it's gonna be fucked isn't that easier and less frustrating than just saying

[00:29:21] it is but at certain point you get you know and walk away like you can say a patient like if I choose

[00:29:27] for a treatment so when you have that conversation with this is hard and then you walk away and say

[00:29:31] dude this shows hard right it's not gonna work yeah oh yeah well yeah we did you get to talk

[00:29:36] about yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so you know you know when to throw in the towel and the patient is

[00:29:41] aware of that because hey we can do the filling we can do this and that but if we do a shitty job

[00:29:46] we don't feel good about ourselves does it does it help anybody yeah no we just do the shitty job

[00:29:52] the truth that we oh we removed the carers the fillings leaking couldn't control the time it's still

[00:29:57] shit yeah right we just made the situation that didn't hurt them before now we made it hurt

[00:30:02] so who are they gonna blame afraid that it's a little close to home exactly so if we set that

[00:30:07] expectation up from being from the get go yeah right then wouldn't we and the patient already

[00:30:14] have that understanding yeah now it's and I mean communication it sounds like you you are

[00:30:20] real comfortable with blunt communication which is actually great I mean maybe some practices

[00:30:24] you can't do that in my practice you can I mean I it sounds like a kick in in your practice I know

[00:30:29] I know you can give me a week in your practice and this will be so friggin fun and it's it's more again

[00:30:39] relating again maybe it's demographically different all you have to do is by Chalmeer printer

[00:30:45] from your office in Hill and Wilton Wilton I will for myself out to you yeah that's right I mean he's

[00:30:51] said it you heard it here at first yeah just say you just buy him a printer yeah it comes

[00:30:55] your office yeah you might in eqbick for a hundred bucks on Amazon yeah he comes your office he'll

[00:31:01] make it work make it work or a sandwich yeah I mean the bar continues to get low this time this

[00:31:07] is a really good offer I'm feeling really and I was like great so how has the meeting been for

[00:31:15] you guys you guys not been really looking at the meeting I mean there's been actually really fun

[00:31:19] to kind of walk around honestly I've been really enjoying it it's been kind of fun to meet

[00:31:22] we see people like I'm I'm missing a VOD honestly this guy might come up here yeah I don't know

[00:31:28] are you are you missing VOD right now I am yeah but it's like I got to say that live podcasting has

[00:31:35] a lot you know this better than I do at this point but live podcasting has some benefits that first

[00:31:40] off the face-to-face thing is fun it's it's typically I mean we laugh more we curse more we but

[00:31:45] some good stories I like I haven't bought anything yet I bought so I bought a backup pair of

[00:31:53] an oval lips okay it's all good on you man I haven't bought a thing yet I mean there are things

[00:31:58] that I'm gonna be looking at but I mean it's almost it's almost dinner time here so it's like

[00:32:03] I might get out of here the first day without having bought a thing yeah that's impressive I

[00:32:06] mean by my lunch how about yourself show me by anything yet or not three printers now I know

[00:32:13] it's not about three printer yet are four vlog disorders yeah that's what I mean it's a little

[00:32:19] less to show for it yeah arguably but yeah yeah no it's been a it's better good meeting also like

[00:32:24] it's nice to see that people are here yeah like I don't know what this I do you've been even

[00:32:30] you've been to a couple of meetings so far I really haven't I mean I haven't been compared to

[00:32:33] like for the last couple years like I mean how does it mean to compare as far as like greater New

[00:32:37] York it's very similar pretty it's it's busier now like I went to greater New York okay so I didn't

[00:32:43] go in 2023 so I must have gone to 2022 and 2021 22 22 was more busy than 2021 this is nice

[00:32:50] and honestly I want to say that tomorrow is going to be the biggest day here okay Friday so people

[00:32:56] people don't work on phrase a lot of times so the Chicago Land Area all shows up here so busy tomorrow

[00:33:01] yeah this is good to see yeah see you know people interacting I like the fact the best part about

[00:33:06] the podcast booth first off it's still empty yeah people people are worried to come in here because they

[00:33:11] think that they might make you talk on a microphone so like I could I could like hides I could

[00:33:16] I could just stayed here for my hotel you know I was literally just pulled in here yeah yeah I know

[00:33:21] I literally said hey Tom I come on he's like yeah I know like I know it's coming well that's the best

[00:33:24] podcast out there but the other thing is that like I was I scoffed I don't need a podcasting booth

[00:33:30] I like it because I got a plug right here yeah you're not even sign up I signed up and I didn't

[00:33:36] even like I didn't even know what the fuck I'm on sign up I might sign up for tomorrow so I can

[00:33:39] see if there's a table left I'll probably sign up you can take mine so yeah wait just say I don't

[00:33:44] think we're gonna be fighting anyone for it yeah it's it's it's it's a good meeting I'm glad I

[00:33:49] came I have no regrets yeah and I'm in a cage because people just walk by there that's staring

[00:33:54] at me like you look you're like you're like you're like something in a zoo I you could choose the

[00:33:59] end I'll give you that I see you jump on the table yeah and act like you know the orangutans in

[00:34:04] in Toledo Zoo there's a a juvenile orangutan who likes to go right up he likes it he likes to kind of

[00:34:11] swing on these branches right by the and he likes to get people's reaction way peas on the window

[00:34:16] yeah so like I mean we could do that you could do that we could we could we could start

[00:34:20] urinating I'm defecating I didn't you know I'm just comparing it to a zoo I'm just I don't

[00:34:26] say anymore then we can give Michelle all right very thanks for being on one talk later thanks for