Group Function: Lessons from a Pandemic, 4 years later

[00:00:00] This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network

[00:00:12] First you take a group of very dental people then you add some interesting topics and a few microphones

[00:00:18] Finally add some laughs and collegial good cheer and you get the group function podcast

[00:00:24] Very dental people welcome back to another episode of the group function podcast

[00:00:29] I am your host Alan Mead and I'm joined by three other

[00:00:34] Lovely people who've been on the podcast a bunch. We have a panel to talk about a topic

[00:00:39] I think everyone is it's on everyone's mind joining me today

[00:00:43] Dr. Dawn Kulinkowski Don. How you doing? I'm awesome. It's good to see you doctor. It's good to be seen good to be seen

[00:00:50] Dr. Melissa Zettler. How are you? I'm fantastic. Thanks and

[00:00:54] And dr. Frank Clayton Frank, how you doing doing great Al how are you doing? I'm good. So this this particular

[00:01:02] Panel this particular conversation has seemed a little cursed really

[00:01:06] we tried multiple times to do this and

[00:01:09] Frank was having technical issues

[00:01:12] Dawn's power went out like it she's

[00:01:16] In the dark she comes back with that with the laptop in like the in like the hotspot

[00:01:21] She tried by that's it by that time the three of us like we're done

[00:01:29] Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie that's kind of true so so and it's it's kind of epic that it happened

[00:01:35] It was so hard to get together because all I really wanted to talk about is basically 18 months after after the kovat

[00:01:41] The kovat pandemic started basically started to affect. It's Mart. What do you say March 2020 ish?

[00:01:47] I wanted to talk about like the ramifications. What are what are things like now? What what's better? What's worse?

[00:01:53] What's different and what's what's been difficult? So I mean there's there's a lot for a 45-minute podcast

[00:02:02] You know what if well if I never hear again, I can't come in today I'm getting a kovat test

[00:02:09] It's like it's the get out of jail free card, oh I think I have kovat

[00:02:13] I need a kovat test. My kid has kovat. Everybody has kovat

[00:02:18] What about what about your staff constantly asking you if it's okay?

[00:02:21] If someone comes in because of whatever it is, they told them on the other end of the phone

[00:02:24] Yeah, every sniffle every cop is kovat. We're all gonna die for sure. Well, the schools are definitely the schools are

[00:02:32] Requiring that as well like you can't there's no

[00:02:37] There's no real there's no sick anymore. It's all it's all potentially right? It's all potentially what's and that's saying

[00:02:42] It's all code, but it since it might be they don't want you to come in unless you've got it. And so I'm last

[00:02:48] Two weeks ago. They started they started on a Monday and it was in August

[00:02:52] So it was two two weeks ago like tomorrow because tomorrow is Labor Day

[00:02:56] Peeking behind the curtain also today is Labor Day because that's the day that this is going. Oh, no, that's a week after nevermind

[00:03:02] So anyhow tomorrow's Labor Day just to give people a frame of mind

[00:03:06] My kids started school two weeks early, which is bizarre because we almost always start after Labor Day as a wasn't it a law?

[00:03:13] They could apply for some sort of I think everyone applied

[00:03:20] We started before this year too we started on the 30th and normally we're after and Frank's in Georgia

[00:03:25] So they started in like late July

[00:03:30] Did they rise kidding I didn't

[00:03:32] Teachers go back and then the kids go back like August the whatever that

[00:03:37] First weekday in August was why is that because it's hot as hell

[00:03:40] And yeah

[00:03:48] Finish in like April or something

[00:03:51] We finished in mid-may

[00:03:55] You know as a kid

[00:03:57] We were on the same schedule as the north and I grew up down here

[00:03:59] I don't know why they've changed things around because it's when you go on summer camps and things away from the south

[00:04:06] It doesn't sink up. Oh

[00:04:09] Yeah, so I blame Kovac

[00:04:12] Sure for sure. It's cold like why wouldn't you blame it for everything else? Sorry, I'm late

[00:04:17] Kovac. Oh, yeah. So anyhow, I'm sorry, but the school started I might kiddo had sniffles. He had a cold

[00:04:24] I don't know if it was more than a cold

[00:04:25] But they required a negative Kovac test room to come back because he had the sniffles

[00:04:29] He got a negative Kovac test and he's he's double vaxxed too

[00:04:33] I mean like so this is one of these things where you're like, I don't know

[00:04:36] I'm frustrated about all of it. But let's just let's let's just I mean we could sit here and bitch for 45 minutes

[00:04:42] Which actually?

[00:04:50] We had a swim meet this weekend on Thursday and my husband timed with a doctor who runs the

[00:04:56] Emergency room at one of the big Minneapolis hospitals and he said, you know

[00:05:00] The news makes it sound like you're overwhelmed with Kovac. Are you and she said we are completely full but it's not Kovac

[00:05:07] It's all the stuff people haven't had for the last year. Yes, interesting

[00:05:10] Yeah, pin up viral demand of other things I suspect so let's

[00:05:17] Yeah, for sure I

[00:05:19] We're all well right now the South is getting hit but I mean that's and supposedly I think I think we Northerners have have

[00:05:25] That to look forward

[00:05:28] Exactly well, cuz I think I think that as it gets colder people go inside and they're more likely to see right now, you know

[00:05:34] Frank's inside because the air-conditioning because it's real hot down there

[00:05:37] So, you know, I think I think we'll all get our turn

[00:05:39] But so here's the deal as business owners, it's affected us a lot first it affect us in March

[00:05:45] You know when they closed us down

[00:05:46] I mean except for emergencies and that of course we didn't that was scary because we didn't know what's gonna happen

[00:05:52] I've heard a lot of people say well that actually in retrospect. That wasn't so bad. I had a little time off. That was fine

[00:05:56] I was never really there but I get it. I get it

[00:05:59] It was you know

[00:06:00] It was some time away or whatever

[00:06:01] We came back and we ran into a lot of different issues ran into PPE issues like are we gonna have the right stuff?

[00:06:07] What is the right stuff should be doing this and I think how is everyone feeling about that in their office?

[00:06:12] Or do you feel like you feel like the I everything's more expensive. I will say that

[00:06:17] Well, the masks have come down but gloves have gone up. Yes

[00:06:20] I don't know what's doing there. Yep gloves have gotten really expensive

[00:06:24] Yeah, I bought a case at 12, you know 12 boxes of gloves and it was like $800 more so than before the government

[00:06:32] Yes

[00:06:33] So it was like masks were up to like 60 bucks a box and now those are down to like 20

[00:06:39] You know

[00:06:40] Like somewhere in the 15 to 20 but then gloves I used to get gloves for 1299 for a box of 300 and I'm now paying

[00:06:45] Almost $60 for that same box

[00:06:48] Oh to take note

[00:06:54] Someone else's I'm I'm going to I'm going to suggest I am absolutely not paying attention to cost like that

[00:07:01] So it's a well

[00:07:01] I just think in general have gone up like I've I can't remember the last time I got a letter from my lab saying

[00:07:07] Oh, sorry because of Kovac we're raising our lab fees and I got that. Yeah

[00:07:12] I they just said their material costs have gone up. So they're forced to raise their lab fees

[00:07:16] Yeah, everything has yeah

[00:07:20] One thing hasn't insurance come. Oh, yeah

[00:07:25] Yeah, I was just gonna say meanwhile

[00:07:28] Delta definitely understands that Cove. It is a struggle for dentists. So they're raising fees on everything. We're getting paid more

[00:07:35] I didn't take their thousand dollars screw them

[00:07:38] And

[00:07:42] $1,000 credit for shine. Yeah, and that you had to sign like it was like way too big and I'm like whatever that is

[00:07:49] No, you had to see you had to sign saying that you'd never claim any cost anything

[00:07:53] The other thing is a thousand bucks at shine no offense, but that doesn't go very far shine. No

[00:08:01] I remember this

[00:08:08] To me my supply costs are like I mean, I'm spending tens of thousands a month on supplies

[00:08:13] What is your thousand bucks mean nothing?

[00:08:17] Certain stuff. Yeah, like you couldn't use it on PPE

[00:08:20] You couldn't use it on you couldn't use it on like when the dude comes to fix your air water

[00:08:25] Why do they care what you used it on?

[00:08:27] Well, cuz clearly they have an idea that this I mean the more they limit the less likely you're gonna use it

[00:08:33] Well or whatever. I mean

[00:08:35] They can go out and say to everybody Delta care so much

[00:08:39] Yeah, they absolutely did that I guarantee you that every Delta subscriber got a letter saying that we understand

[00:08:47] I guarantee you that well, and I know Delta probably who do you think ate that cost?

[00:08:50] I'm thinking shine two-thirds Delta one. You know what I mean? Like that was some deal they sold to Delta

[00:08:58] $1,000

[00:09:01] Money they must have made by not having people go to dental offices for two months shit. Oh for sure and use their benefits

[00:09:09] Yeah, I mean more than a thousand dollars. They handed out if you do them if you do the math on that

[00:09:14] I mean like like they are just swimming in cash because I guarantee you there was never a concession

[00:09:19] How about we don't charge you for a couple months? We'll just we'll just not charge your premiums cuz you can't use them

[00:09:24] So let's just do it. It's the dentist. That's greedy and rich

[00:09:29] Dentist right. It's not the CEO of Delta a nonprofit that makes 12 million dollars

[00:09:38] He works really hard

[00:09:43] Jet I know all that is such bullshit. That's hard work

[00:09:47] And

[00:09:54] You probably need special permits to get on the special private land way and everything yeah, I mean there's a lot of

[00:10:01] Admin, I get it. I get it. Okay the costs add up really and people don't want to work. You can't find a good stewardess anymore

[00:10:08] Yeah

[00:10:10] So Frank and I were talking before we went on how how it's hiring is tough

[00:10:15] But it is hiring clearly not just tough for dentists

[00:10:17] We can complain about that too, but like the our local McDonald's which I'm not proud to say

[00:10:22] But we've we've we've probably spent more time in the drive-thru line at McDonald's that then then we have in the past

[00:10:28] Let's just say that we've spent more time

[00:10:29] I

[00:10:30] Spent more time like two days ago in the drive-thru line in any case because it's real busy like

[00:10:35] Like it wraps around the whole building and you're still hanging out into the road

[00:10:39] And I thought to myself oh they're really concerned about Cove it they're like nope

[00:10:43] We can't find anyone to work

[00:10:44] That's us and Culver's the line for Culver's ice cream wraps all the way around the building it down

[00:10:49] It's like I just want some custard. Can I ask a question? Do you want McDonald's that bad?

[00:10:55] Like why are you waiting?

[00:10:56] Apparently a lot of people

[00:11:01] Like I would argue that in any any

[00:11:04] Like any restaurant is probably looking at that going

[00:11:06] Okay

[00:11:07] Here's our new model like our new model is I don't need a less contact with human beings and because the other thing is is

[00:11:13] That people have gotten all kinds of delivery stuff all that like that's all happening. That's become a bigger deal. I

[00:11:18] Listened to a podcast

[00:11:20] It was a podcast series and it was about all those the door dash and and and who breeds and all that stuff

[00:11:25] I'll find the link I forget it was it was one it was land of the Giants is the name of the podcast

[00:11:29] It's I think it's from Vox, and it's they talk about a bunch of different big tech things and basically what?

[00:11:35] What did they determined is?

[00:11:38] Everyone is using those delivery things and everyone is losing money on them from from from the companies themselves

[00:11:44] The people that work for the companies the restaurants that work with the companies

[00:11:47] Everyone is in and the end the person ordering the food everyone is losing money, and they're not quite sure exactly why?

[00:11:52] But that said I mean I I have not used any delivery anything

[00:11:56] But I live so far out in the sticks that it's just not if they're not they're not willing to come out okay

[00:12:00] So Don tell me you used. What do you what are you?

[00:12:03] Food

[00:12:04] Grocery, right? Yeah, my kids or dash smoothies

[00:12:07] I saw that I'm like are you freaking you just spent 15 bucks to have a smoothie delivered to the door. You've lost your mind

[00:12:16] You what I don't see I live in a small town and we never had these things like maybe you could get a pizza

[00:12:22] Which you can't get a pizza anymore by the way because I don't think they have people to drive the cars

[00:12:26] But so you can't get a pizza

[00:12:28] But you can get from all the other restaurants in town and honestly to me. That's like such a great thing

[00:12:32] I don't want to go down there and try to find a place to park and

[00:12:35] Wander into the line and wait behind people who are mad on your part of the problem

[00:12:40] I'm tipping that driver like an insane amount yeah

[00:12:44] Getting money for my food, so if door dash can't figure out how to spread that money out. That's not on me

[00:12:49] No, it's it's it's an interesting podcast, and I don't I don't doubt that they're

[00:12:53] What the companies are making it because the venture capitalists just pour money into it, but the people I mean the drivers have

[00:13:00] Well you've heard about in California

[00:13:02] How they've I think uber and lyft are no longer gonna be allowed to they have to be employees

[00:13:06] It's the whole thing works because they're not employees like the whole the whole

[00:13:11] Work thing has changed through kovat. What is work anymore?

[00:13:15] I mean all think of all the company of all the people

[00:13:17] You know that we're in our in management positions or or attorneys or whatever that that don't go into the office anymore

[00:13:23] And they've just decided that that's great. That's fine. We don't need a building anymore essentially

[00:13:28] There's a lot of that there's a lot of

[00:13:31] I mean

[00:13:31] I think some of it probably it sped up progress to some degree because I think like in the case of attorneys do they really

[00:13:36] Need to go in person to the court like my husband's an attorney and yeah

[00:13:40] He does do you have to have some in-person arraignments?

[00:13:43] You have to have a person jury trial

[00:13:45] Can be and some things that don't need to be and I think that that should be on them to figure that out

[00:13:49] So I think some of that could be good

[00:13:51] But like my personal peeve is the veterinarians around here who are still only doing yes all of them are

[00:13:58] That because

[00:14:00] So I was as I waited for nine hours starting at 9 p.m

[00:14:05] To see my dog to get my dog seen at the emergency vet July 4th weekend

[00:14:09] Of course, I sat in the parking lot and waited and waited and as I was waiting

[00:14:14] I was pissed off that I had to sit in the parking lot to wait and

[00:14:18] That no one had even come to look to see how urgent the dog situation was

[00:14:21] So I googled I started reading articles about it and there's all sorts of blogs and all sorts of things and the basic point is

[00:14:27] It's more efficient and they've made more money in the last year than they ever had before

[00:14:31] And most of those veterinary offices are corporate now

[00:14:34] And they're never gonna go back to letting people in the building and what they said was it saves time like, you know

[00:14:39] I don't get to talk to the vet

[00:14:40] I don't get to ask questions about you know

[00:14:42] Why my dog throws up every Saturday morning or whatever it is

[00:14:44] They don't have to answer any of that and I can tell you the flaw of it is when that my dog was finally seen

[00:14:48] At 3 30 in the morning

[00:14:50] The vet called me on the phone to tell me that her right eye was just fine

[00:14:54] And I said, well that would be because I sent her in there cuz her left eye is not

[00:15:03] And they're pouring stain in the wrong eye, I can't say hey it was the other eye. Can you look at that one?

[00:15:09] Yeah, I feel like people should park in my parking lot and just send their teeth in

[00:15:15] I mean in some cases you can kind of do that like, you know removable implants, maybe you know

[00:15:20] I feel like that's got really I want them to come clean

[00:15:22] I want them to tell me on the phone that they're still doing curbside because they're gonna make more money and they don't give a

[00:15:26] Shit about talking to me. I want them to say that and not tell me it's cuz of kovat because

[00:15:32] They're never gonna do it

[00:15:33] And the other thing is is I think a lot of the like the restaurants with drive-thrus or that have realized that the drive-thru

[00:15:38] Is the profitable they're never gonna go back? Why would they know? Why would they?

[00:15:41] Have a pilot now where it's all like hands off. Yes, Taco Bell. Yep, and the rumor is

[00:15:49] Late yeah the Taco Bell you don't go in and it's sent down like a little pipe thing like the old bank

[00:15:56] Yeah

[00:15:57] Chick-fil-a is about to do that their triple drive-thru here and their new concept store is not gonna have a dining room

[00:16:04] But the current chick-fil-a we have is a they made into a triple drive-thru

[00:16:08] Interesting, and I know the owner and they want to keep it that way

[00:16:13] Do people really want to eat in a chick-fil-a?

[00:16:16] People

[00:16:18] Experience that people want I don't want nobody wants to eat in a store unless you are a new parent and you want to

[00:16:24] Just throw your kid in that little playground thing and just sit there and veg out

[00:16:28] But honestly, I have I have eaten in a McDonald's since coven up in Roger City, Michigan

[00:16:34] Which which has that has that like late 90s early 2000s McCafe thing going it

[00:16:40] sort of they've got a feel of like a coffeehouse and there's

[00:16:43] We hate it we ate inside it a

[00:16:46] Head of noodles and company here in Midland yesterday, too. And it was it was nuts. It was nuts

[00:16:51] We were the only people it was a Saturday night on Labor Day weekend

[00:16:54] We were the only people eating in like we didn't realize we'd be the only ones there and they don't use dishes anymore

[00:17:01] Everything is they package everything for takeout and they carry the bag to your table

[00:17:05] And I so like I've got all this trash instead of using dishes. We got all this trash

[00:17:11] It was fine the boys loved it because we haven't been there since before the whole code thing started and we used to go there

[00:17:16] Quite often, but I'm just like yeah, the experience is definitely changing now

[00:17:20] I don't know if you know finer dining like I haven't been to Chicago

[00:17:24] I haven't I've been to Chicago like that's where I'll eat it nicer fancier places and stuff like that if I'm doing dental stuff there

[00:17:30] But I haven't been there yet

[00:17:31] I don't know what how does that affect a restaurant that has no potential to do that kind of thing?

[00:17:35] Our restaurants here are open and like you can go to a nice restaurant in Minneapolis and have a nice eat-in dinner and okay

[00:17:42] We've had that experience

[00:17:43] I've noticed some of the staff wear gloves like the bus boy was wearing gloves and all the servers were a mask

[00:17:48] Yeah, yeah, and then everybody's in a mask. But other than that, whatever. It's kind of like my server in a mask quite honestly

[00:17:56] Yeah, it's like wear your mask but you the gloves it's like I don't know how much crap you've touched

[00:18:00] No, I love creep me out gloves gloves don't work the way the general population thinks they do

[00:18:06] People think gloves like are

[00:18:08] Totally immune to all germs field

[00:18:11] Yes, exactly. And so they'll touch everything with them because the gloves are clean still after you touch stuff

[00:18:17] I don't know the gloves make me nuts

[00:18:19] I actually lost a patient because I would not let her in the building with her gloves and she got mad and in me

[00:18:25] Honestly, I'm done with these people getting mad about my rules. So it's like you get mad fine go by bye

[00:18:31] Girl because you know, you never you never clean your gloves, but you know

[00:18:39] And they touch everything maybe it's like the VRBO towel and they're touching something

[00:18:48] Not my hand I would argue that I would argue the latex surface is

[00:18:53] Is easier to get up high in your nose in your nose like you can really get up there. Yeah, I'm sure it's got some track

[00:19:00] Fingers, it probably picks up more shit. I

[00:19:03] Expect I don't have evidence. I might work on that. That might be a project

[00:19:06] But I don't think patients realize how the gloves are working when we're using them

[00:19:10] Like I don't think it's ever occurred to them that I'm wearing gloves. I'm only touching you and things that only touch you

[00:19:15] I'm not

[00:19:16] Yeah, but I've got patients go I can't believe how many clothes you go through because if I go do a hygiene exam

[00:19:20] I think I think they kind of do I think they kind of only if they're paying attention. I don't think they've ever paid attention

[00:19:25] Yeah

[00:19:26] Do you guys take your gloves off and leave them in the op when you go to a hygiene check and they come back

[00:19:32] Time for that who has time for that there is a current

[00:19:36] There is an undercurrent of dentists who are the cheapest mofos ever on the planet and they do things like that

[00:19:42] I worked with one and he would wash his gloves and go see

[00:19:46] No

[00:19:48] Because they're cheap same with people who never changed their mask that mask with it used to be like 10 cents

[00:19:53] But still they would never change that mask. They use it all goddamn day and then they tell me oh cuz you know

[00:19:58] Why do I need to change my mask? It's like cuz you care about things being clean

[00:20:01] How many times did you touch that after it's sprayed?

[00:20:03] You know what?

[00:20:04] I mean

[00:20:04] Like if you're going from room to room in that you're totally adjusting that with your fingers and whatnot and you're touching the outside of the

[00:20:09] Mask, it's dirty

[00:20:10] You change it because you know the difference between clean and dirty not because you care about 10 cents

[00:20:15] It makes me crazy, but there are docs. They're just over there for sure

[00:20:19] I will say there's also people that struggle with the with the waste

[00:20:22] That's the cheap is the big thing

[00:20:24] But I also think some people really have a hard time throwing so much stuff away

[00:20:29] Where it's single-use, I mean it's

[00:20:32] Exactly, but but there is something to the fact that we're using a lot of lot more stuff that's thrown away now

[00:20:39] You know one thing I didn't realize I touched as much as I do is my loops like the strap

[00:20:46] So I'm like I I have a UV box that my father-in-law made for me yeah, I just throw that everything that can't be disposable

[00:20:54] I'm chucking in that UV box when you know the patients have like a little animal they're hugging or something UV box

[00:21:00] It's no, I don't know how your UV box works. But just as a warning. I'm skeptical of mine. No

[00:21:07] Mine has a timer and it's plugged in

[00:21:11] When the power went out at my office I came in the next day and it had turned itself on

[00:21:16] So it had been on like since the power came back on 12 hours before it smelled like burning something

[00:21:25] Oh my god, that's what I said, I'm like this place has never been so sterile

[00:21:30] Yeah, yeah, so it's the ozone that it creates that you should be smelling and it took my staff a long time to use that

[00:21:36] We started using it. They're like you open it and it smells I'm like right. That's how you know

[00:21:40] It's working. It's the ozone

[00:21:43] If it doesn't smell

[00:21:46] So we off the ozone layer thing of the 70s or have we punched the hole and we're now are we doing ozone again?

[00:21:54] Okay, so that that that's the joke but the other thing is is like as a society

[00:21:59] I mean there was a time when we were worried about throwing too much stuff away. We are not worried about that right now

[00:22:06] Unless it's a plastic

[00:22:10] I

[00:22:15] Mean nobody's worried about it. That's not the same thing. Yeah, straws are the worst paper straw suck

[00:22:20] But here

[00:22:21] At home because I don't I don't understand why people need a straw when they go to a restaurant

[00:22:25] I've never used a straw at home. My kid did for like a brief period of time while she was learning silly straw

[00:22:30] So yeah, and it was a plastic straw we put in and out of the dishwasher. Yes, but you we don't need straws grow up

[00:22:37] But I can't travel with metal ones now that like collapse and they wash and they

[00:22:45] Inside that metal straw that's

[00:22:52] But I mean on some level people who are people who are germaphobes don't want to put their lips on on the glass

[00:22:57] They will put their

[00:22:59] Through that straw. Yeah, I don't know. I mean a fork

[00:23:03] 30 other people that day have

[00:23:06] But don't

[00:23:07] Well, here's my thing

[00:23:09] I think these people need to do a little research in the immune system and things will feel a lot better

[00:23:12] there was a restaurant in my town and

[00:23:14] It was one of these like they were so not

[00:23:17] Caring at all about capacity limits or any of that and we got takeout there and honestly it pissed me off

[00:23:21] I said we're never going in there again the amount of people

[00:23:23] I don't think there were there were more people in there than I ever saw in there before and

[00:23:27] The way they were doing this like here the lobby is here. The people who are all eating are here

[00:23:32] I don't know why we're bothering with masks here when we're right next to those people, but they were

[00:23:38] wiping the pens

[00:23:44] It's better when they have the the clean pen rack and the dirty pen

[00:23:50] Laid out that they were putting the clean pens like under the fold of the table

[00:23:54] Case in point how much of what we're doing and how much half of what we have done is is all is

[00:24:00] Demonstrative

[00:24:03] Yes, but here's so I'll make the argument that in the beginning we didn't know sure

[00:24:07] When you don't know you lay out the blanket, right? But then as we learn we tailor but here's the problem. It's not us

[00:24:13] I don't think we're the problem. We've learned and tailored

[00:24:16] I know that what I need to be worried about is people breathing on each other

[00:24:19] So once we've narrowed it to that that gets rid of like all that pen bullshit, you know

[00:24:24] Like all of that is gone, but the general public

[00:24:27] Ignorant

[00:24:29] You know, so like we are so uneducated about anything to do with health or immunity

[00:24:36] Pen and we're breathing on each other. Yes, I don't get

[00:24:40] Yeah, we can't educate people and they're all too mad to hear anything now

[00:24:43] That's right, but it's they're mad because they don't understand that we only know what we know when we know it

[00:24:48] So at the beginning, of course, we were doing things that were unnecessary because we didn't know what was necessary

[00:24:54] But now we do so adjust accordingly stop being an angry fuck and yelling at everyone I keep it's it's very frustrating

[00:25:01] It's very frustrating. I

[00:25:04] In my office no one has yelled about anything anywhere at all

[00:25:08] We had one guy who gave us a hard time about a mask early on in the whole situation

[00:25:12] No one else you have way more of that dawn. I've seen I've seen you've had more people like that

[00:25:17] I don't know why that would be because I'm only like an hour and ten minutes north of you

[00:25:21] I don't know why we I have a smaller practice than you

[00:25:24] So maybe I just don't it might be a numbers game. That could very well be your one guy is my button

[00:25:28] But yeah, I yeah, I haven't really run into that. I think people are doing their best

[00:25:33] I will say that I I think I'll bet my practice is overwhelmingly vaccinated, too

[00:25:39] I that's the I have experienced that like was we have been asking now

[00:25:42] I've had people who get mad because we ask and I'm like, you know what?

[00:25:45] I've asked you if you have HIV and venereal warts also all these years and they didn't give a shit about that

[00:25:50] But now all of a sudden it's way too

[00:25:52] Way too private of information to tell me if you got that kovat vaccine

[00:25:58] Are like a labor of love so

[00:26:09] You ask people I have asked people and we don't even flinch we ask people all sorts of things

[00:26:14] We ask them their meds. We ask them everything. I kind of flinch I flinch a little sometimes

[00:26:19] Because yeah, no you can't flinch even if you want to

[00:26:30] You still wearing that ankle bracelet

[00:26:34] Yeah

[00:26:35] That's that's actually I those are people. I'm afraid those are my people I can talk to those people like crazy

[00:26:40] So that's that's no problem. But but they are mad

[00:26:43] They're like, oh you if the one guy actually said because we asked if they were vaccinated and

[00:26:47] Again, I'm gonna treat you whether you are or not

[00:26:49] No different than I do if you answer yes to any of the 85 questions that are on our health history

[00:26:54] And he got all bent out of shape. He called the office three times to yell at us

[00:26:58] Well, let me ask if you're gonna treat them. Anyway, what difference does it make? Why do you ask because I want to know it's

[00:27:03] No, why then wanting to know any of the other things but you don't ask if they've had other vaccinations

[00:27:10] We do see we never ask about the opposite I don't ask

[00:27:15] We don't ask about vaccination argue that it's not our right to ask our patients health questions. No, I'm gonna argue

[00:27:22] What difference does it make everything is so politically loaded there's a lot of shit I don't ask I'm just gonna say that right now

[00:27:29] Like how often how often do you have a patient in hygiene?

[00:27:31] Who clearly is?

[00:27:32] It's way off on the left

[00:27:34] like doesn't want to take their mask off to have their teeth clean because then they have to take their mask off and they've

[00:27:39] been raving about the vaccine and

[00:27:41] My operator we've got someone who's the exact opposite who can't you know

[00:27:44] It's wearing a MAGA hat the whole nine yards and you're like, oh, this is awkward

[00:27:48] So on some level I get the not wanting to ask because it's almost like by asking you're bringing the shit up a little bit

[00:27:53] You know, my point is what like what would you do?

[00:27:57] Information what?

[00:28:00] Mandate was that you only had to wear a mask if you were not vaccinated. Yeah

[00:28:03] How am I supposed to know who to tell? Yeah. Okay same with the screening. We only really had to screen

[00:28:08] There was a period of time where we were only screening people who were not vaccinated

[00:28:11] How do I know who those people are seeing for us here all medical including dental wears a mask?

[00:28:16] So it's a dress. It's a matter. We're back to that now, but we had a wonderful three weeks there. Yeah

[00:28:23] That's where that's where I'm hung up I'm like we got there

[00:28:28] Yeah, we did get there we never

[00:28:31] We probably should we probably should I want it?

[00:28:33] In ten minutes, but I want to just go for like how have you guys had to hire anyone in this situation

[00:28:40] Thank God. No, luckily. No. Oh my gosh. I just lost two employees, but that's fine

[00:28:47] No, because one is my associate doctor and then she bought her own practice

[00:28:52] And then the other is an assistant that I would have had to let go because I don't need that many

[00:28:57] Oh

[00:29:01] One person I lost

[00:29:03] So my my 48 week hygienist

[00:29:06] I had a 48 week in one day a week in my 48 week hygienist found literally like

[00:29:10] Three days before they shut us down like said I I hate to do this to you

[00:29:14] I found a job much closer to home. I realized where home was she drove an hour an hour

[00:29:19] To my office and an hour home every day. So like like can you blame someone?

[00:29:24] I'm still I'm so very friendly with her. So I mean, of course then we got shut down. So I'm like well

[00:29:30] Can I think of a worse time to have to find a hygienist at this point?

[00:29:33] Yeah, we were shut down for what a month and a half almost two months

[00:29:36] So what I did was my one day a week became my four day a week

[00:29:39] I talked her into that and then I found another one day a week and that was a struggle to be perfectly honest

[00:29:44] That was hard. It was not even it was hard enough

[00:29:47] Yeah, it was hard enough to even just get applicants much less find the right person

[00:29:51] So I mean and I know we've talked about this on the show before we don't have to go into so you guys have not

[00:29:55] Had to hire interesting. Do you have a fair amount of like fear about that?

[00:30:00] I totally do I want to do everything to keep my team happy and with me

[00:30:04] Because like we're we work well together. I am smaller. I am smaller

[00:30:09] I am I am down one assistant also, but I kind of okay with that

[00:30:12] Like what when we were first doing it

[00:30:14] We didn't we weren't seeing the same volume of patients that we were because we didn't know and it's worked out for us

[00:30:18] That's right, that's fantastic. I didn't know that's really good news

[00:30:21] I didn't realize that I figured we'd have a whole other podcast on hiring a fantastic

[00:30:25] So before we wrap we got we got about 10 minutes or so. Tell me this tell me

[00:30:30] something

[00:30:31] That is new to Kovat is since Kovat that you want to keep that you like whether it's a new podcast

[00:30:37] You're listening to a new procedure. You've added a new

[00:30:41] Show on Netflix knew what it's something something good something good that you've added in your life since Kovat

[00:30:50] Well, I want to think for a second

[00:30:52] Well, we already said door dash door. Dash. Okay, so you can't use that one that's got I'll start I'll start

[00:31:00] Well, I mean so I've had a weird I started exercising obviously I've talked about that a lot

[00:31:06] Like literally the 19th of March was the first day. I was running

[00:31:10] I started running and I don't know why I started running because for a fat guy running is tough on knees and ankles

[00:31:15] It's really a dumb. It's a dumb fitness choice to start with

[00:31:20] But and also 50 years old

[00:31:22] So yeah, it's just running just not a great choice swimming would have been about a trust

[00:31:26] Not that we were swimming cycling is an excellent choice in any case

[00:31:28] So I ran for I ran for like three months straight because I started the streak literally

[00:31:33] Dawn and I did a podcast with someone talking about a running literally a streak about running. I'm like, oh I so I was doing that

[00:31:40] I tried bicycling the first day. I tried bicycling. I got hit by a truck

[00:31:45] And I broke my back so a little less exercise after that for a little while

[00:31:50] But then then the gyms opened back up in September. I was able to go back to it

[00:31:53] I was only out for a month and a half or something like that for exercise

[00:31:57] I broke my back, but I didn't the treatment was put brace on and and take it easy there pal. So that was good

[00:32:03] and

[00:32:04] So now I've added cycling back and I literally just bought a new bike for my birthday

[00:32:07] Back in August and and I have not slowed down at all. So that literally I'm probably I mean

[00:32:13] I was pretty passionate about podcasting now my new thing that I'm completely obsessed with is cycling

[00:32:18] So is that because of the free time of kovat that it allowed you to do that?

[00:32:22] Yeah

[00:32:22] yeah, I think so that and I felt like I had felt like I had to do something with this time like it was I

[00:32:27] Was I mean there are a lot of unhealthy things to do with all that time when you're not doing anything and eating would have

[00:32:33] Easily been one of them for me. So I I don't know. I don't know why I did it

[00:32:37] I did it and once I did it a couple times like well

[00:32:39] I should keep doing this because that's sort of how my brain works. So that's that's what happened to me

[00:32:42] So I added that it actually that has been consistent not not running per se but exercise and just sort of I'd love to say my

[00:32:48] Diet's a ton better

[00:32:49] It has been at times and not so good at other times, but the exercise is stuck

[00:32:53] So because and for me the exercises is almost I do like

[00:32:57] I'd like to say that it's just it feels so good. No, it's the streak. I swear to God. It's just me keeping track

[00:33:02] It's ridiculous, but it's so Peter you were saying that we did that. Yes. Peter is on his like

[00:33:09] 4,300 and something. Yeah in a row. I'm not there yet

[00:33:14] Because like I'll take a day off here and there

[00:33:17] Running he runs every day and he's run every day for 4,300 in some days

[00:33:21] Peter did not start out a fat guy with ankles that

[00:33:27] I'm down with that streak. Okay. So now that I've told my story

[00:33:30] Does anyone have anything that they've added that they can think of that?

[00:33:37] Subtract so well there that's fair. That's very so

[00:33:40] You know the shutdown happened and like I had so that first month like I'm gonna say for mid-march to the end of April

[00:33:47] I had like five trips that got canceled. Yeah, and that schedule. I mean like that was just my life

[00:33:52] I mean, I look at my calendar like, you know

[00:33:54] So like I'll pull up the calendar from a year ago at whatever time and I go god

[00:33:57] I was home for three days gone for four days home for two days gone for three days gone for so I and I lived

[00:34:03] Like that like that was just life and then you know having that rug pulled out where it was like, okay

[00:34:08] I guess I'm home now

[00:34:09] It's kind of nice and I go god

[00:34:11] I don't want to go back to that and then when things started opening up and it started I watched the calendar

[00:34:16] Start to fill back in I have anxiety about it

[00:34:19] I'm like, I don't think I don't want to go back to that and I love to travel

[00:34:22] It's you know what?

[00:34:23] Not that I love to travel and all of that

[00:34:25] But I don't want to lose my time like I did before and I found myself telling a friend like a couple weeks ago

[00:34:31] You know, I have a new I've put a new dollar amount on my time because it's like, you know what?

[00:34:35] I'm not gonna go anymore

[00:34:37] You know just cuz I was asked and whatever it's gonna be worth my time and I'm gonna it's gonna mean something to me

[00:34:43] So I'm being more

[00:34:44] Careful with who I give my time to yeah for sure and what I do with the time

[00:34:50] Never notice a plane travel to if you have to take a plane somewhere

[00:34:53] That's two days one day there one day back pretty much no matter what I don't care

[00:34:58] There are people like or a 10-hour flight. Yeah

[00:35:01] With the airports being the way they are a two-hour flight is also you got to be there two and a half hours early

[00:35:08] You lose it you lose it and so you and and honestly those are if you like the hustle and bustle of the airport

[00:35:16] If you paid for the if you paid for the Sky Lounge, let's be perfectly honest now the Sky Lounge is probably suck

[00:35:24] I haven't been in a Sky Lounge for years and years, but I'm just wondering like totally fine

[00:35:29] We are so the buffets still going kind of doubt it's all pre-packaged. No, it's not just a regular buffet

[00:35:35] Even Seattle had the open buffet. Yeah, I'm impressed. I'm impressed

[00:35:39] I mean, but in any case that makes travel a little more bearable

[00:35:43] But I mean you lose those days and so

[00:35:45] I'm thinking a lot harder about travel now car travel seems more appealing to me because I have a lot more control over the time

[00:35:50] and all that stuff I

[00:35:52] Want to travel more but it's been like when you get a year and a half where you're not

[00:35:57] You know what? It's sort of it's it's harder to add back in I think

[00:36:02] Packing I was like, you know the amount of packing and unpacking I would do and I have lists like my computer is full of

[00:36:07] Lists of clothes, you know what?

[00:36:08] This is what I need for this and this is what I need for that and I kind of don't miss making lists of fucking

[00:36:14] outfits

[00:36:17] Frank makes a lot of lists about

[00:36:22] You're probably traveling for speaking engagements and I think that's very different than traveling for leisure

[00:36:28] Oh, no, but it but see here's the thing Melissa. I was doing both

[00:36:31] I would do one thing one weekend and then three days later. I'd go somewhere with my kid. So it was just constant

[00:36:36] It was just a rolling thing. But yes, I absolutely do both. I love to travel

[00:36:40] I love to travel I do but you're right people think travel for work is so like glamorous and fun

[00:36:44] It's like no, it's shitty and it's yeah

[00:36:47] And you only people seem to learn that is until they have to do it for a while

[00:36:51] You see the inside of the hotel and the icky before and whatever else, you know, it's just boring. Yeah

[00:36:57] All right, Melissa. Can you think of anything added subtracted? Whatever that that's that's that's a change you've made in Kovat

[00:37:02] That's maybe for the better, you know, not not a huge. I see the biggest thing is

[00:37:08] Being home more I've been around for the kids more because there's less to do less places to go

[00:37:16] And I've really enjoyed that, you know, we were the house that was willing to have everybody over and

[00:37:22] So I got to know their friends a lot more and I really enjoyed that and it's just kind of kept up that

[00:37:28] They come over here they want to be here, you know as long as there's food they're good

[00:37:33] We're a lot of parents. Yeah, a lot of parents didn't want the kids over

[00:37:37] They were super wiggy about it, which I don't understand if there's at somebody else's house altogether at yours

[00:37:41] What difference does it make sure but we just said you're welcome here whenever you want. We'll turn on the filter

[00:37:48] Go crazy, and we don't have one single that we know of case of Kovat that happened in our house

[00:37:54] But yeah, I would say the nicest thing is just

[00:37:57] being around my kids and their friends and watching the giggles and the interactions and

[00:38:02] Just the stupid shit that goes on

[00:38:04] Mm-hmm. I've really liked that and now that we're back in school and they're you know

[00:38:09] Often out in their cars more I don't get that as much and I miss it

[00:38:13] You know like last night Natasha had some friends over on the boat and they forgot I was there for a while

[00:38:18] Even though they invited me to come out and they just sat in the back and they took selfies

[00:38:23] and I heard about what was important in their pictures to them and

[00:38:26] Yeah, I want I want the slowness that Kovat gave us that I didn't know that I needed to appreciate when it was happening

[00:38:33] Mm-hmm. I want to do over with less stress

[00:38:37] Well

[00:38:40] Because none of us really knew how he's gonna shake out so it was even though we were doing less

[00:38:43] But we got more time to like think about how horrible it could end up instead of just like taking a little time

[00:38:49] I think there were days where I was like, oh, yeah, this is great. I remember being a wreck most of the time

[00:38:59] Frank what do you can you think of anything that was particularly good bad or a change that we brought on that you'll probably come

[00:39:05] combination of what Melissa and Dawn had said you

[00:39:08] Exactly what you said Donna put a price on

[00:39:11] You were forced into a type of retirement so you get a glimpse of

[00:39:15] What it's gonna be like with truly no people calling. I mean truly step away

[00:39:21] It's first time in 20 years. You're able just to totally step away

[00:39:26] So you look at things and now vacations are different because

[00:39:32] You're not going to be able to go on vacation

[00:39:34] You're not going to be able to go on vacation

[00:39:37] So you look at things and now vacations are different because

[00:39:42] Exactly what you said dawn it's you're able to go. Uh-huh

[00:39:46] What my stress level you're able to quantify the free time you have limited free time

[00:39:50] All of those things start to play in my head when we take vacation or when I'm at the office and things are too busy

[00:39:57] I'm thinking how is this really worth this?

[00:40:00] So that that's that put it in big perspective

[00:40:03] Perspective also like patients that

[00:40:06] Prepay, that's my second thing. I love the fact that we get them to prepay

[00:40:10] before they come in

[00:40:13] And they do that that's brilliant we need to do that so then it's not a stop at the desk

[00:40:18] Exactly. It's like more blame it on kovat that we do and we will that is friggin great

[00:40:23] It is I mean like 60% prepay online before. Oh nice and oh, it's it's wonderful

[00:40:30] Well, those people don't mess miss their appointment. I was just gonna say it probably helps attendance also. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so

[00:40:38] That's those are all really good. Those are excellent. So I

[00:40:42] Feel like you know, I I don't know. I don't even want to say so

[00:40:46] What do you think's gonna happen moving forward because I'm not making any guesses

[00:40:49] I I think we're I think we're managing I'm as busy as I want to be right now

[00:40:53] So that's that's for me. That's kind of a blessing

[00:40:55] I know there's people maybe that aren't but I feel like I

[00:40:58] Feel like there are still plenty of people that are itching to get their teeth fixed and come on

[00:41:02] I don't I don't feel like we've had a big drop off. There might be some

[00:41:05] Drop, I will say though that the thing that we have struggled with is that our recall is screwed up

[00:41:10] Yeah, and I just don't know how to get that back and and it makes it the schedules a mess because of it

[00:41:15] It's like, you know, we didn't see anyone for half of March all of April and all of May

[00:41:19] So no one is due then and they're not do six months from then either and then you have everyone do in

[00:41:25] That June July August and then six months from that

[00:41:27] So we're kind of messy with the recall still and I think it's gonna take two years to recover

[00:41:32] I think it will come back around but it's so frustrating because it's like, you know, we had you know one month

[00:41:37] You're like you can't get everyone in and then the next month

[00:41:39] You've got like three days of open and it's just it's been frustrating as far as the recall is concerned. Yep

[00:41:46] Kind of says a little something about how how how dentists look at hygiene?

[00:41:50] Actually, it's like when you how is it that how is it that the people that just aren't coming in that's okay

[00:41:56] We'll figure it out later. But how important is it?

[00:41:58] So it's a weird thing like our the model is based so much in hygiene and in most practices most regular practices

[00:42:05] Hygiene regular and we can keep an eye on it

[00:42:07] And a lot of times we're filling our schedule or at least helping fill our schedule from the hygiene

[00:42:12] but like I

[00:42:14] Don't know like is there another model to do it so that because the story is like we got a bunch of people that freaking

[00:42:19] Didn't have their teeth clean for a long time

[00:42:23] Hygiene right

[00:42:27] Yeah, ours doesn't but it creates in a supply-demand issue

[00:42:31] So like you were saying dawn so when you push out six months or you can't get people in

[00:42:35] You have your two hygienists that you've had that haven't left you during kovat

[00:42:38] So to open the overflow if you look for a temp hygienist that comes into play because we're working with that

[00:42:45] Which and they're in huge demand because we're in a similar issue. Yes

[00:42:49] So whereas the go-to safety valve in the summer was I have to you know per diem

[00:42:55] Hygienists that have been with me for years that would just come off and on. Yeah now you can't

[00:43:00] Because other offices are grabbing them. Yeah. Yeah, so that is green in you know

[00:43:06] You know patients don't understand you can't sit there and explain you can explain that there's no room

[00:43:11] But you think about what restaurants are going through and what other people are going through

[00:43:16] I don't like the bitch about it because it's it's at least we have somebody sure sure

[00:43:22] It did that part so then think about it that affects your not only that day of hygiene your future production

[00:43:29] Because that's where your treatment planning comes from

[00:43:32] It's a trickle effect for us. Yeah for every dentist office

[00:43:36] Yeah, so like you said it will be six months two years till the the volatility

[00:43:42] Levels out and then you're able to see effects. It's ripple. So what happened months ago?

[00:43:49] Add kovat and then I don't know who knows it's too hard to predict like it used to be very

[00:43:57] This in August we do this and

[00:43:59] Evens out and now I just like I don't know. We'll see what happens tomorrow

[00:44:03] Very true. And I think I think I have gratitude Frank is very right. I have gratitude

[00:44:08] I think that the business is still steady and we don't have half the problems that other businesses do

[00:44:13] great

[00:44:14] Thank you. I still I still would I still would like to

[00:44:17] To do drive-thru. I'd like to close my dining room

[00:44:21] So still working on that I'm not exactly sure how that works you need a denture lamp something

[00:44:27] All right, you guys well

[00:44:28] Thank you a ton for doing this if you guys have any questions or comments and honestly if you don't have questions and comments

[00:44:33] About what we talked about that. I don't you weren't listening very closely

[00:44:35] Because there's a lot of stuff in there over the very dental Facebook group and if you're not a member

[00:44:41] Just search that on Facebook very dental Facebook

[00:44:44] Give us Timmerman as the password last name of the first guest of the very dental podcast

[00:44:48] And tell me a little bit about yourself. We'll bring you it's a good group

[00:44:51] There's a lot less garbage fires there than other groups. I'm trying to do that. It's pretty good though

[00:44:56] It's it's growing slowly, but we're approaching 500 people. So that's pretty cool

[00:45:00] It's growing slowly so but this is I were curious to hear about your post cove at 18 months out

[00:45:05] How are things different better worse and all that stuff and and thank you guys a ton for being on this was great as always

[00:45:14] Thanks for listening to another episode of the group function podcast if you like what you're hearing

[00:45:19] I would love it if you would go leave me a review on

[00:45:22] Whatever podcast software you're using

[00:45:25] If you're using the Apple podcasts or Google podcasts or whatever leave a review it really helps and I sure appreciate you listening

[00:45:32] Thanks a lot for listening. We'll catch you next time