Group Function: Maximizing Your Digital Dentistry Investment with Dr. Armen Mirzayan and Damien Bonner

[00:00:00] Benco Dental believes you deserve a trusted partner, a team that makes it easier to grow and deliver the best patient outcomes.

[00:00:07] And what could be easier than knowing everything you need is all in one place?

[00:00:11] Expert advice, dependable value on everyday supplies, fast shipping, plus center point showrooms to try the latest tech before you buy, and experts to help at every turn.

[00:00:21] Visit Benco.com and discover why 81% of their customers agree buying from Benco Dental saves practices time and money.

[00:00:31] This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:42] First, you take a group of Very Dental people.

[00:00:45] Then you add some interesting topics and a few microphones.

[00:00:48] Finally, add some laughs and collegial good cheer and you get the Group Function Podcast.

[00:00:54] Very Dental people, welcome back to another episode of the Group Function Podcast.

[00:00:57] We're doing round two with Dr. Armen Mirzayan and Damien Bonner.

[00:01:01] How are you guys doing?

[00:01:02] Day two, you ready? Rock and rolling.

[00:01:04] We're ready to go.

[00:01:05] Damien is about to fly out here, literally.

[00:01:08] So I'm going to pitch my first question to him as sort of the...

[00:01:12] He's the guy that's likely to answer the phone or the email or the text if you have questions about your...

[00:01:18] He's one of the guys anyhow that would.

[00:01:20] But he also...

[00:01:21] He's kind of the contact point to a lot of cadre clients, customers.

[00:01:28] And so, I mean, there's probably a lot of customers that are like me that come because they're like,

[00:01:33] Okay, everyone says I need to get a scanner or I'm interested in a scanner.

[00:01:36] And so start me out with a scanner.

[00:01:37] And you get those people.

[00:01:39] And, you know, I literally have used the scanner basically as my workflow for Crown & Bridge and kind of nothing else.

[00:01:44] I don't do a ton more with it.

[00:01:47] Watching Armin speak for the last two days, I'm like, God, there's a lot I can be doing with this.

[00:01:51] And it's...

[00:01:52] Part of it is like how often do you see clients bridge the, okay, this is just a tool in my office to becoming more of an enthusiast with all the different stuff you can do?

[00:02:02] Does that make sense?

[00:02:03] Yeah.

[00:02:04] I mean, it's a pretty amazing aspect of Dr. Coleson doesn't know what they want to do.

[00:02:11] They know they need to do something.

[00:02:12] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:13] So they start with a scanner.

[00:02:16] From there, they see the support that we offer.

[00:02:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:20] They get comfortable with the scanner.

[00:02:21] They come out to one of Armin's courses.

[00:02:23] The education.

[00:02:23] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:24] And they realize that this other stuff isn't so hard.

[00:02:27] It's not so...

[00:02:32] It's...

[00:02:32] He's...

[00:02:33] Armin puts it in a way that simplifies it for them.

[00:02:35] Yeah.

[00:02:35] Because otherwise it's intimidating.

[00:02:37] Exactly.

[00:02:37] Like it can be intimidating.

[00:02:40] And I don't...

[00:02:41] You're right.

[00:02:42] How do you make it so it doesn't seem...

[00:02:43] I mean, his knowledge base is such that like...

[00:02:47] We were talking about this in the last one.

[00:02:48] There's a lot of different tools in that medic kit.

[00:02:50] And I got to learn what they are.

[00:02:52] And Armin kind of flies through it.

[00:02:53] But the reality is, is it's like, oh, I see why he's doing this now.

[00:02:56] And that's...

[00:02:56] It's...

[00:02:57] It's...

[00:02:57] It's...

[00:03:16] It's...

[00:03:17] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:26] There...

[00:03:52] It's...

[00:03:53] Yeah.

[00:03:54] And...

[00:03:54] It's...

[00:04:07] So there's no...

[00:04:10] bundle discounts that we wouldn't offer you today that we would offer you in the future.

[00:04:15] So we try to make it as easy and simple as possible and to transition into a workflow

[00:04:21] that's comfortable for them.

[00:04:22] Yeah.

[00:04:22] It's funny because, so yesterday I was pretty sure I was going to be hitting you guys up

[00:04:27] for a scanner with a bigger scanning area and I still might, but I've decided just

[00:04:33] because I need to start using what I already have more effectively.

[00:04:38] So I know, cause I don't, on some level, I'm not sure that I need to do a change in scanner

[00:04:45] as much as use the scanner better and more comprehensively.

[00:04:49] And honestly, the taking, listening to Armand speak and just showing what it could do.

[00:04:55] What I actually am going to do is I'm going to get my, my cart that the thing is on is really hard.

[00:05:00] It's, it's crowded and it's kind of, I need a better work surface.

[00:05:03] And then I need to just dig into the different tools and see what the heck I can do.

[00:05:07] And I, but that's already there.

[00:05:08] I mean, that's like, that's easy.

[00:05:09] I just need to, so I'm going from the guy who is like, just, this is the tool to what

[00:05:13] else can I do with it?

[00:05:14] And so I'll, I'll keep you posted, but that's sort of what I think I'm going to do.

[00:05:17] It's very, very similar to a smartphone.

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:21] You know, most people, 90% of the people out there use their smartphone to make phone calls,

[00:05:25] text and take pictures of their grandkids.

[00:05:27] Yeah.

[00:05:27] Yeah.

[00:05:27] But it's a powerful machine in your hand capable of so much more than what you're currently doing

[00:05:31] with it.

[00:05:31] And when you unlock that, there's unlimited potential of what you can do digitally.

[00:05:36] That's exactly, that's a, that's a perfect example.

[00:05:38] That's perfect.

[00:05:38] I agree.

[00:05:39] Just think of the hesitation you had to get on board with scanning.

[00:05:42] Remember how much, how much time you spend like doing your due diligence.

[00:05:45] Yeah.

[00:05:45] I want to get into this.

[00:05:46] Yep.

[00:05:46] You finally bit the bully, you jumped on and now you're seeing the, you saw the value of

[00:05:51] that.

[00:05:51] Now you're starting to explore all these.

[00:05:52] There's actually an easier decision than the first decision.

[00:05:54] It is.

[00:05:55] The worst thing we can do, the worst thing Damien can do is give you something, sell you something

[00:05:59] that you're not going to use because the fallback from that is horrible.

[00:06:03] Yeah.

[00:06:03] It's just like when you do a veneer case on a patient who wasn't prepared for it and they

[00:06:07] were very unhappy with you.

[00:06:08] There's nothing you can do to reverse course and make them happy.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:12] It's the same concept.

[00:06:13] We don't ever want somebody to buy something they don't need or want.

[00:06:17] We need you to be convinced that it works and then you make a very comfortable.

[00:06:21] Next time you call Damien and say, Damien, I want that printer.

[00:06:23] You're not going to say, Damien, how does the printer work?

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:26] You're better prepared.

[00:06:27] It's an easy decision for you and we have the long-term goal in mind and all this and

[00:06:31] everyone's going to approach it with the right pace and the right degree with which they

[00:06:34] incorporate it.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:35] They got to convince themselves it was worth the money.

[00:06:38] It was worth their time.

[00:06:39] They benefited.

[00:06:39] The patients benefited.

[00:06:41] That is much easier to make the next decision.

[00:06:43] Yeah.

[00:06:43] It's funny too because you were a dentist first and you're a distributor of this stuff

[00:06:50] now and it is interesting.

[00:06:52] Your role has changed quite a bit in this stuff because not only are you, you're sort of one

[00:06:56] of the guys doing the, okay, this is how we use these tools like from the early 2000s,

[00:07:01] but now you're at a point where you have to decide what companies really deserve to play

[00:07:05] ball in your sandbox and all that stuff.

[00:07:07] It's a very, your role is sort of, I don't know, man, I'm not sure I'd want, I'm not sure

[00:07:12] I'd want that kind of pressure to tell you the truth.

[00:07:13] How do you feel about, are you any regrets becoming the guy who is the making these decisions?

[00:07:18] No, I get a lot of shit from people calling me a salesman and stuff.

[00:07:22] Yeah.

[00:07:22] It doesn't affect me in any way.

[00:07:25] Let me rephrase it another way.

[00:07:27] I was doing exactly what I'm doing now, but I was getting paid to buy companies to teach

[00:07:32] people how their product works, which doesn't pay nearly as much as convincing people to

[00:07:37] buy the product.

[00:07:38] Yeah.

[00:07:38] I'm like, I'm an extremely cheap salesperson just using education to teach people how it

[00:07:45] works.

[00:07:45] Now I can sell the product myself and support it and teach it better than any other company

[00:07:50] can out there with the team we have assembled.

[00:07:51] So it's actually a pretty easy trend.

[00:07:54] I'm doing the same thing I've always done.

[00:07:55] I'm convincing people this works as I use it.

[00:07:57] I used to be part of just education now.

[00:07:59] Now the education is part of supporting these scanners.

[00:08:02] One thing that does bug me is there are quite a few outfits out there who have no business

[00:08:07] selling scanners.

[00:08:08] Of course, the manufacturers want to move their scanners.

[00:08:10] So the way some positions market it is it sells itself.

[00:08:13] You can scale.

[00:08:14] You don't need much handling.

[00:08:15] You don't need much scanning.

[00:08:16] As you see this weekend, I outline like a thousand ways things can go right.

[00:08:19] Yep.

[00:08:20] Yep.

[00:08:20] One more day to go.

[00:08:21] There's so many ways you can do this in there.

[00:08:23] So I think it's a disservice when manufacturers have random people who have zero support or

[00:08:28] know how to even turn on the scanner.

[00:08:31] They start selling.

[00:08:31] Yeah.

[00:08:31] That hurts the industry, I think.

[00:08:34] If your sales guy, if your shine rep comes in and they're selling you the latest mega

[00:08:41] super composite from 3M and also we have a new scanner, beware because that sales guy

[00:08:47] doesn't really know very much about the scanner.

[00:08:49] And, you know, they're there.

[00:08:50] And I mean, the big companies are, it always blows me away to see them on their magazine

[00:08:56] color covers, you know, the scanner.

[00:08:58] They don't know anything about it at all.

[00:09:00] They know nothing.

[00:09:00] And they just want to, it's a little, it blows my mind how many people are still sort of like,

[00:09:07] they just trust their, whoever walks in, you know, from Shine or Benco or whatever.

[00:09:10] And then, and that they're just buying whatever they're selling.

[00:09:13] That's a very, that's a, that's a 30 years ago model.

[00:09:16] It seems like to me, I would much rather, I mean, I'd much rather, yeah, I would, I would

[00:09:21] much rather deal with someone who's, well, I mean, you guys have been in the space for

[00:09:25] a while and I can get my hands on you too.

[00:09:27] That's the other thing.

[00:09:28] We are probably the worst sales organization in the world, but we're the best support

[00:09:33] organization, which means that people trust what we have to say.

[00:09:37] Uh, when I'm working with a customer, um, who's thinking of what scanner to get, I don't

[00:09:43] sell them any which way.

[00:09:44] I just educate them on their products and, uh, and they appreciate that and buy what's

[00:09:48] best for them.

[00:09:49] We sell so many Medit i600s, uh, which is seven, $8,000 less than the other Medits.

[00:09:57] When a doctor comes and says, I want to Medit i700, we talk them to the lower product, uh,

[00:10:01] because at the end of the day, we know it works just as well.

[00:10:03] Uh, and we're going to save them six or $7,000 that they can then invest in a printer or other

[00:10:08] technology they want to buy.

[00:10:10] Uh, so having that knowledge, understanding how the systems work, being able to support

[00:10:14] them, uh, when you do those things, right, the sales follow and other companies lead with

[00:10:20] the product and not the why behind it.

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:23] I love the fact that you guys distribute for a bunch too.

[00:10:26] It's, that's very cool.

[00:10:27] So if you guys are looking at any of this stuff, I'll put the show notes, you know, the

[00:10:33] cadre in the show notes and all this stuff.

[00:10:34] I, it's, I, it's been a really good experience to, to be watching Armin speak about this

[00:10:39] stuff.

[00:10:40] And the best part is Armin's lecture is sort of evolves throughout the day, depending

[00:10:45] on Damien.

[00:10:46] It's been good to see you.

[00:10:47] We'll, we'll catch you later.

[00:10:48] Catch you next time.

[00:10:49] Thank you so much.

[00:10:49] You bet.

[00:10:50] Probably New York like last time, right?

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:52] Hopefully we'll see.

[00:10:52] We'll see.

[00:10:53] Pull right up to that mic.

[00:10:55] Armin, we got you.

[00:10:56] We got just Armin now.

[00:10:57] It's funny because your lecture evolves by how people are asking for stuff.

[00:11:02] And another two times today, he said, so did, was this worth your while?

[00:11:06] And everyone clapped today.

[00:11:07] You got claps today.

[00:11:08] So clearly you're doing, you're doing something.

[00:11:09] All right.

[00:11:10] It's so important to me.

[00:11:11] Yeah.

[00:11:11] I take it very seriously.

[00:11:12] I look like a goofball most of the time, but this stuff I take very seriously.

[00:11:16] You take time away from your family, take time away from work.

[00:11:19] You come to this, you're dedicated to be here for two days.

[00:11:21] I've got to deliver.

[00:11:22] I got to make sure it's worth your time.

[00:11:23] It would drive me nuts if I didn't.

[00:11:25] It has been too.

[00:11:26] I got to say, there's a lot of, there's, there's a lot of stuff that might not be perfectly

[00:11:29] applicable to everyone, but I think even my dad, who's not, you know, particularly worried

[00:11:33] about it, there's, there's always something.

[00:11:35] Oh, I mean, you're talking about different implant shapes and, and, and bearing.

[00:11:39] It's really funny.

[00:11:39] You, you were given some love to the Bicon implant, which is sort of that it's pretty

[00:11:43] old school implant and, and not so much the implant, but the concepts you learn

[00:11:49] by placing them.

[00:11:49] And, you know, and I think a lot of people were, you got a lot of questions after that.

[00:11:53] There was a lot of people were, why aren't you placing the Bicons?

[00:11:55] But then also the concepts are, so you've got a lot of, you got deep cuts in your lecture

[00:12:00] that for, for people, it's pretty cool.

[00:12:02] Actually.

[00:12:02] I appreciate that very much.

[00:12:03] Yeah.

[00:12:04] I think I'm a, I know all the questions.

[00:12:07] Usually I don't want to be the lecturer that's up there just spewing what I think is relevant.

[00:12:11] I do like feedback.

[00:12:13] And once in a while you get a very quiet group.

[00:12:15] You kind of have to, you got to, you got to go through it.

[00:12:18] You got, you have no idea what they're thinking, but this group was phenomenal.

[00:12:22] All the questions I get, I need to know if I need to dial things back down.

[00:12:26] I do like to show things that, like you said, that they may not, it may not be applicable

[00:12:30] right now.

[00:12:31] Yeah.

[00:12:31] But it's happened so many times over the years where they've seen something and a year from

[00:12:35] now they come across that and they're like, okay, I know how to do this instead of punting

[00:12:39] or instead of trying to figure this thing out the hard way.

[00:12:42] I know I can get in touch with our man and he'll, I have content on it.

[00:12:44] I'll show him how to do it.

[00:12:46] Particularly using other implants, super structures, a scam body.

[00:12:49] That's a pretty popular one because we're always struggling with having different parts, different

[00:12:54] impression copings.

[00:12:55] Like whenever you see a new implant system and you've haven't worked with it before,

[00:12:59] you probably do the first one at a loss because you're going to buy all this extra

[00:13:02] stuff.

[00:13:03] You don't really know how it works.

[00:13:04] So you wasted money.

[00:13:05] You need like a few of those to actually break even to recoup your investments.

[00:13:10] So a lot of what I do is it's all making sure the doctors are efficient.

[00:13:14] The doctors are saving money.

[00:13:16] They're not wasting money and they're getting the end result very, very quickly.

[00:13:19] And again, we win when we do that.

[00:13:20] It's actually great that you're kind of a cheapskate on that way.

[00:13:23] Like I can tell, I can tell you're not, you're not the guy that really wants to spend that

[00:13:26] money.

[00:13:27] And so you've got, it was really you just libraries of different scan bodies that you

[00:13:32] were basically, you were, you were essentially connecting them to a whatever implant superstructure

[00:13:37] the person kind of had like you were using like a tie base or something like that, that

[00:13:41] was connected, which was kind of fascinating to me.

[00:13:44] Cause I, I haven't had, I literally have, when I restore implants, I still do polyvinyl

[00:13:48] because in my lab tech told me, you're crazy.

[00:13:50] You need to come over and I've got, I've got the implant, you know, in a lot of the surgeons

[00:13:54] are on his places, a similar implants.

[00:13:56] He's got a bunch of them.

[00:13:57] So I need to start doing that with him too.

[00:13:59] But I will say that for people who are restoring a lot of implants, just hearing Armin talk about

[00:14:04] this is pretty fascinating.

[00:14:06] It's sort of, I was like, man, you know, that is a really, it's a great hack to get

[00:14:10] around all the different, you know, there's clearly a lot of scan bodies out there and

[00:14:14] it's hard to know which one you're supposed to be using and all that stuff.

[00:14:17] I appreciate that.

[00:14:18] Actually, there's a, there's a little side conversation here to be had.

[00:14:21] Like, you know how you do a procedure for the first time in your office and you're likely

[00:14:25] to blunder it and you're likely to repeat it and you're no longer profitable with that

[00:14:30] process.

[00:14:30] It sucks, right?

[00:14:31] We've all been there, but this is a very unique situation I'm in.

[00:14:34] And I'm blessed that way because all those screw ups are actually great material to show

[00:14:39] people.

[00:14:40] Because if you, if you, if you look at this from a big point of view, what I've done

[00:14:43] this weekend, I pretty much cataloged the 500 ways we introduce errors, you know, all

[00:14:48] the mistakes we make.

[00:14:49] Cause we get them all.

[00:14:50] I know what the, I know what the blunders are.

[00:14:52] I know where people struggle.

[00:14:53] I know what the questions are.

[00:14:55] So I've sculpted it that way.

[00:14:56] So I address things.

[00:14:57] I put out fires before I do.

[00:14:58] Cause nothing more frustrating than having to redo something that you already lost your pants

[00:15:02] on.

[00:15:03] Yeah.

[00:15:03] You're worried about the liability.

[00:15:05] So you do it for free.

[00:15:06] You eat the cost of the new restoration.

[00:15:08] You're trying to remedy things.

[00:15:09] It's not fun.

[00:15:11] But again, I'm fortunate enough because that is actually much better content than the success

[00:15:16] case A to Z.

[00:15:17] Cause everyone, everyone relates to it for one thing.

[00:15:19] The perfect example was that I used one scan body early on and I made the mistake of not

[00:15:24] knowing his exact reference number.

[00:15:26] Okay.

[00:15:27] So I would constantly pick the wrong selection in the design process.

[00:15:31] So for a year, my crowns are 0.82 millimeters too tall, 0.4 millimeters too short.

[00:15:36] I'm going absolutely crazy until I realized, oh, I screwed up.

[00:15:40] I have no idea what the scan body is.

[00:15:42] The reference marker number wasn't on there.

[00:15:44] It wasn't tattooed on there.

[00:15:45] It was a $20 mistake that cost me thousands of dollars to redo and lots of headache.

[00:15:51] That's not fun.

[00:15:52] So if I prevented someone from being in that same boat, I'm pretty stoked.

[00:15:56] Yeah.

[00:15:56] No, that's, that's fantastic.

[00:15:57] I like that.

[00:15:58] Something I just thought of too.

[00:15:59] You're like all the different ways that we introduce error.

[00:16:03] What's interesting in a digital world, you're, you offered up a lot of different ways for us

[00:16:09] to recognize those errors before we proceed further.

[00:16:13] That is interesting.

[00:16:15] There are not ways that we could do that in an analog world.

[00:16:18] In other words, how do you know, how do you know when, when your impression was distorted?

[00:16:23] If it's a polyvinyl impression, you probably know that.

[00:16:26] I mean, maybe at a try-in or if you're trying to deliver something.

[00:16:30] That's when you find out.

[00:16:32] Why do you go and produce?

[00:16:33] It's an expensive way to do it.

[00:16:34] Yeah.

[00:16:34] Why do you, why do we manufacture something without confirming our impressions accurate?

[00:16:39] Yeah.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] So it's weird.

[00:16:41] I love this.

[00:16:42] I love having these conversations with you because I think you, you wrap that up very

[00:16:45] succinctly for me because that's exactly what I've been trying to do, but I just never

[00:16:47] had the worst to put that together.

[00:16:49] Yeah.

[00:16:49] Yeah.

[00:16:49] Like to confirm your scan while you're scanning, to stack the odds in your favor is all I've

[00:16:55] been trying to show all weekend.

[00:16:56] And I never put it together that succinctly, that precise.

[00:16:59] It's funny because a couple of times earlier today, you were like, okay, I'm going to see

[00:17:03] if I can make this thing mess up.

[00:17:04] And it didn't.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] And you're like, okay, well, but, but the reality is you were showing how you would

[00:17:10] see a, you know, like if you're scanning, you were scanning a denture and you went literally

[00:17:15] from, you know, the left side of the right side across the palette and in, in, in lo and

[00:17:19] behold, it actually, it actually got the relatively accurate kind of seam.

[00:17:23] But, but a lot of times if you're not grabbing that reference bit of whatever you're scanning

[00:17:28] to kind of bring it over, you'll get the distortion there.

[00:17:31] So in some ways, digital, you see the distortion that might be irritating to you, but on the other

[00:17:36] hand, that's telling you that you've got the air.

[00:17:38] You don't want it to go back, do something different.

[00:17:40] It's massive.

[00:17:41] It's huge.

[00:17:42] It's huge.

[00:17:42] You can't do that in analog.

[00:17:44] No, you can't.

[00:17:45] Every, every presentation I start, and usually there's a lot more assistants.

[00:17:48] There's only one assistant.

[00:17:49] And she was a trader for the lab company, right?

[00:17:52] I always start with such, and it's, it stomps a lot of people.

[00:17:55] It's really weird because it kind of is a trick question.

[00:17:58] I just ask a very simple question.

[00:17:59] You take an outward impression.

[00:18:01] How do we know that's accurate?

[00:18:03] Yeah.

[00:18:03] We have no clue.

[00:18:04] Yeah.

[00:18:05] Like we, we will pour it up.

[00:18:07] We'll go through the hassle of pouring it up, sending it to the lab, get the night guard

[00:18:12] back.

[00:18:12] And most of the time we get lucky.

[00:18:14] It fits.

[00:18:15] Yeah.

[00:18:15] When it doesn't, you're annoyed.

[00:18:17] You got to take a new impression.

[00:18:18] But it's crazy to me that we would produce something without verifying that we're accurate.

[00:18:23] Yeah.

[00:18:23] So the simple remedy to that is, the doctors just talk themselves into this.

[00:18:28] Okay.

[00:18:28] The only way I can know I have an accurate impression is if I took two impressions.

[00:18:33] If I took two PVS impressions and the lab digitally poured it up, they scan it with a desktop scanner

[00:18:38] and these two models that are rendered merge each other and they match each other very nicely.

[00:18:43] We can conclude if two separate impressions produce the same result, we can conclude that

[00:18:48] you're going to have a well-fitting restoration.

[00:18:50] Now, there is a one in a trillion chance that they're off so bad themselves that they match each other.

[00:18:56] There's always one dentist that thinks that way.

[00:18:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:58] They're both so horribly off, but they're identically off.

[00:19:01] So you have an inaccurate model render.

[00:19:03] Exactly, exactly.

[00:19:04] One in a bazillion chance.

[00:19:05] Other than that, though, we just found a way to verify our impressions accurate before we waste any more time.

[00:19:11] And then I just hammered that home a thousand times, a thousand different ways, how to use

[00:19:16] a scanner advantage to verify something before you send it off.

[00:19:19] And it's worth mentioning, too, that we have clinically acceptable stuff is sort of the

[00:19:25] slot factor in everything a little bit.

[00:19:27] So you multiple times were saying, well, there's a little bit of distortion here, but you literally

[00:19:34] can't manufacture this to a standard that that variation would make a difference.

[00:19:38] I think it was in some crown margin stuff you were talking about yesterday.

[00:19:42] So it's good to know that the accuracy of some of the digital imaging is beyond what

[00:19:49] we can manufacture.

[00:19:50] Yes, that's a very, very good point.

[00:19:51] So you see your margin blown up 50-fold, 100-fold, whatever it is, and you're trying to mark

[00:19:57] it as detailed.

[00:19:59] There's no way.

[00:20:00] Under 200 microns, a million machines are going to struggle manufacturing.

[00:20:05] It's just going to chip.

[00:20:05] It's just too thin, right?

[00:20:07] Yep.

[00:20:07] So if I can't manufacture something under 200 microns, what's the difference between a

[00:20:12] 20-micron difference and the margins we're trying to draw?

[00:20:15] It's just, you just can't manufacture that.

[00:20:17] It's an interesting point because there are times, it's not often, but occasionally, I

[00:20:22] looked at it, it looked like the margin was good.

[00:20:23] And you mentioned something I didn't realize.

[00:20:26] A lot of times, you're seeing the cartoon of what the scanner has until it's processed.

[00:20:33] Yes.

[00:20:33] So, I mean, a lot of times, I'm marking my margins on the Meta software before it's processed.

[00:20:38] So is that accurate?

[00:20:39] Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.

[00:20:40] It's locally processed.

[00:20:41] It takes the little, it takes, you select it, and then it processes just that spot.

[00:20:45] Yes.

[00:20:46] Because it'll take too long for it to process the whole model.

[00:20:49] Exactly.

[00:20:49] Okay.

[00:20:49] And I can, if you've used a Meta, you know what I'm talking about.

[00:20:52] Because when you're doing the margin marking, you select the tooth specifically, and it

[00:20:56] processes just for a short time so it gives you the accurate version of it.

[00:21:01] And then you mark your margins on that.

[00:21:02] I got to tell you, I find that almost always the margins are, and I use color.

[00:21:07] I know that everyone's like, oh, I use the color because I feel like I just saw the preparation.

[00:21:11] I'm literally sitting in the room with the patient.

[00:21:12] That's the best time for me to do it.

[00:21:14] I shouldn't be trying to remember it later.

[00:21:17] But sometimes I'm like, is this exactly where it was?

[00:21:20] And your point is that if you're marking the margins blown up that big, you're doing a pretty

[00:21:26] great job of it at that point.

[00:21:27] It's like, and I have to say, a lot of times I'm like, boy, I hope this margin is, and

[00:21:31] the crown is awesome when you put it in.

[00:21:33] So the reality is, is like, that is a lot of precision that can't even actually make

[00:21:38] it to the manufacturing process.

[00:21:39] So it's a very common question people ask, is a scanner accurate enough to pick up that?

[00:21:43] Yeah, absolutely is.

[00:21:44] You just can't manufacture.

[00:21:45] I don't even think by hand you can manufacture that much detail either.

[00:21:48] Good point.

[00:21:48] Really good point.

[00:21:49] That's right.

[00:21:49] So I think the conversation is going to move over time.

[00:21:52] It's going to move from scanners to the manufacturing process because there's a lot of slop and

[00:21:57] printing and milling, and that'll be the focus once everyone's comfortable with hammering

[00:22:01] out all the errors we introduce while scanning.

[00:22:03] Okay.

[00:22:04] So this was the thing we didn't get to yesterday that I want to bring up to you here.

[00:22:08] So I'm going to have you, we're going to talk about the new intraoral photogrammetry

[00:22:14] stuff.

[00:22:14] But I first, because I don't really understand it myself.

[00:22:16] I've never done it.

[00:22:18] I've seen lots of it online and stuff.

[00:22:20] What is photogrammetry?

[00:22:22] And explain the big expensive cameras that we've been using up to this point and why, how do they

[00:22:29] work and why are they so accurate?

[00:22:30] Sure.

[00:22:32] So first, let's really map out, in a certain manner, why intraoral scanners, there's a

[00:22:39] lot of talk.

[00:22:39] Actually, most of the studies say they're horribly inaccurate for implants, full arch

[00:22:43] implant restorations.

[00:22:45] Some people know how to work them.

[00:22:46] And the summary of the problem is that the longer you go on a dentualist span between two

[00:22:54] implant superstructures or two preps, the longer the dentualist span, the less likely it

[00:23:00] is that you're accurate.

[00:23:01] You may introduce errors.

[00:23:04] You may veer off track.

[00:23:05] So there's this thing, the field of view that we touched on earlier, there's a, usually

[00:23:09] it's a green box for most scanners.

[00:23:11] And the more data you fit in that green box, which is the field of view of that scanner,

[00:23:16] the more likely it is that you'll be accurate.

[00:23:18] So a quick example of that is if you have a tooth or an implant superstructure and a

[00:23:24] dentualist span and then another implant superstructure at the tail end of that, if you don't

[00:23:29] fit that whole complex in a single frame, you must assume that there's inaccuracies involved.

[00:23:35] If you can fit them both in the frame, they're bookended, like you have that green box and

[00:23:39] on the mesial end, there's a tooth or implant superstructure.

[00:23:43] And on the left side of the screen, there's an implant superstructure or prep.

[00:23:46] There's a dentualist patch in between.

[00:23:48] And you capture all that in one single frame, your odds of it being accurate skyrocket.

[00:23:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:53] And generally, an all-on-four type of case, the whole point is to spread those implants

[00:23:58] out along the sedential spans as far apart as possible so you have an AP spread.

[00:24:02] So technically, if you have six implants or eight implants, you're more likely to stay

[00:24:06] accurate than you are with a four unit.

[00:24:09] So that distance between, the summary of all this is, the distance between two implant

[00:24:13] superstructures and all-on-four type of case in the lower jaw in a flat plane is very

[00:24:19] ripe and prone for error and creating issues.

[00:24:23] I mean, this is why when you're doing analog that you really, you want to do the, you want

[00:24:27] to make sure that you've got a stiff tri-ingera verification jig.

[00:24:32] That's why they do the same thing just for, just because accuracy around the arch is hard.

[00:24:37] It's just a difficult, and it's vitally important that you're getting a passive fit on these

[00:24:43] things or, you know, so, and a lot of people have said you can't do it digitally because

[00:24:47] of this.

[00:24:48] So then, then they started, that's the problem.

[00:24:51] The problem is the accuracy is the, the, the intra, the space between the implants, it

[00:24:58] has to be recorded wildly accurately or it's good or the case is going to be in jeopardy

[00:25:04] basically.

[00:25:05] So, so the options you have, and a lot of smart people have, uh, uh, have developed adjuncts

[00:25:11] to help you break up that symmetry, to break up that flat plane of an edentulous ridge.

[00:25:16] So you have all kinds of products that you place on the multi-unit abominant.

[00:25:20] I'll just rattle off a few.

[00:25:21] There's one called OptiSplint.

[00:25:22] That's more of a analog, uh, uh, solution to this, uh, to this situation.

[00:25:26] But then you have scan ladders.

[00:25:28] You have, uh, quite a, they have the next day, I have quite a few different, um, um,

[00:25:34] superstructures you place on the multi-unit abominant to help it stay on track.

[00:25:37] You're trying what you're doing, everything you can in your power to disrupt that symmetry.

[00:25:43] The less symmetry there is, the less flat, the, the, the, the fatter the abominants, the

[00:25:48] shorter they are, the less irregular they are, uh, the better off you are to keeping on track.

[00:25:52] So there's some great solutions out there.

[00:25:55] Blue sky, I'm sorry, true Batman came out with one.

[00:25:58] There's quite a few solutions out there for introoral scanners.

[00:26:02] And I draw the line for myself because I have a lot of responsibility.

[00:26:05] I tell people, if you use any of these products, uh, I can show you how to use them.

[00:26:09] I can get you there, but I discourage you from go out committing to finals, uh, without

[00:26:14] a verification, right?

[00:26:15] Yep.

[00:26:15] Because what you can do a hundred cases in a row, perfect.

[00:26:19] That hundred and first case that doesn't fit can ruin the first hundred.

[00:26:22] You're miserable.

[00:26:23] Yep.

[00:26:23] Patient's miserable.

[00:26:24] You're charging quite a bit for these.

[00:26:26] Yep.

[00:26:27] You just, you know, it's just, uh, it's not fair to the patient if you're, you want

[00:26:31] to deliver it at the same time.

[00:26:33] So, but I know plenty of people who use those and skip their verification jig.

[00:26:36] That's your decision.

[00:26:38] After you've done a bunch, maybe you decide, Hey, you know what?

[00:26:40] This is overkill.

[00:26:41] I don't need it.

[00:26:41] That's your decision to make with a photogrammetry.

[00:26:44] The solution is so good minus human error.

[00:26:47] I'm perfectly comfortable telling people skip the verification.

[00:26:50] They can skip that part.

[00:26:51] Okay.

[00:26:51] Because what this does completely different technology.

[00:26:54] So there's quite a few ways to describe it.

[00:26:57] Photogrammetry is basically taking multiple images with cameras from different

[00:27:01] angles and putting together a 3d object.

[00:27:04] Uh, some people say you need to capture all the objects in one shot in one field of view.

[00:27:08] Others say, no, it doesn't quite work that way.

[00:27:10] A lot of, uh, none of us are engineers could, could talk to that.

[00:27:14] But the whole point is the photogrammetry scanner up until recently, we only had extra

[00:27:18] oral options.

[00:27:19] You put these dominoes on top of the implant fixtures and these dominoes have markers on

[00:27:24] them.

[00:27:25] And then when you're scanning with this extra oral scanner, you're looking for those markers

[00:27:29] on the dominoes or known positions.

[00:27:31] So you no longer deal with soft tissue, blood, long edential spans.

[00:27:36] Everything I just detailed earlier that it's a cause of the problem is no longer in the

[00:27:40] equation.

[00:27:40] So you're scanning something very different than an internal scanner scanner.

[00:27:44] You're scanning these markers that are not moving.

[00:27:47] They're well known.

[00:27:47] And then once the, uh, photogrammetry unit recognizes those markers, they need to pick

[00:27:52] up enough points.

[00:27:53] Then they can spit out what's called an output file where they render the implant positions

[00:27:58] perfectly.

[00:28:00] Um, when it replicates exactly what's happening in the mouth.

[00:28:03] And oftentimes I'll look at an intro scan.

[00:28:05] I'll look at a scan from that.

[00:28:06] And the discrepancy is so subtle.

[00:28:08] You may not notice it until you look at it in cross section.

[00:28:10] And then once you see that, like, oh, there's no way that screw was going to fit.

[00:28:14] The screw is wider than a discrepancy.

[00:28:17] I'm not going to be able to see this.

[00:28:18] It's really obvious.

[00:28:19] So, um, when you start looking at it in that much detail.

[00:28:22] So up until now, we had the big cameras that you were mentioning and their, their cost

[00:28:26] was insane.

[00:28:28] When we started carrying one called the iCam during the pandemic and quite a few people

[00:28:32] purchased those from us.

[00:28:34] Um, and that was a 23 grand.

[00:28:37] That's at 45 grand, the same machine, like no improvement.

[00:28:39] It's just the demand drove the, drove the price up.

[00:28:42] Now we got a great solution, an intraoral, uh, scanner, uh, that couples as a intro photogametry

[00:28:48] machine.

[00:28:49] Now, instead of putting vertical, vertical dominoes in the equation, you put horizontal

[00:28:53] dominoes in the equation and the same intro scanner while that you're using to scan this

[00:28:57] off tissue.

[00:28:58] Uh, I don't know exactly the technology is proprietary.

[00:29:00] They won't share it with us, but it basically flips the switch.

[00:29:03] No, you don't have to even change the tip.

[00:29:05] It's the same tip, but the way the camera works is different camera.

[00:29:09] It looks for those exact markers on the horizontal plane.

[00:29:12] It's the vertical plane, like every other system was today.

[00:29:15] And then it perfectly finds your, it'll index where your implant positions are.

[00:29:19] So you're, you're accurate enough that you could potentially for your framework.

[00:29:22] Anyhow, you're potentially could, could skip that, that, that verification.

[00:29:26] I wouldn't even say potentially you could absolutely skip it.

[00:29:29] Okay.

[00:29:29] Money back guarantee.

[00:29:30] Okay.

[00:29:31] And they just minus human error.

[00:29:32] Yeah.

[00:29:32] Cause you could conceivably not.

[00:29:34] Okay.

[00:29:35] The most likely errors are you don't see the domino.

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:38] Yeah.

[00:29:38] Or the bigger one is you see the domino on a multi and the multi and domino connection

[00:29:44] are stiffer than the multi and implant connection.

[00:29:47] I got it.

[00:29:47] So you, without you knowing it, you undo it and you unravel.

[00:29:51] I got it.

[00:29:52] And you didn't, you didn't catch that.

[00:29:53] Right.

[00:29:54] And you go to deliver the prosthesis and it doesn't quite work out to your favor.

[00:29:57] Yeah.

[00:29:57] God damn.

[00:30:02] The technology itself, if you do everything right, money back guarantee from us.

[00:30:06] They actually, we have that with every product.

[00:30:08] We, we don't like unhappy users.

[00:30:09] So we buy them back.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:10] But we, we're, we're not going to leave you stranded.

[00:30:13] That's, that's, it's, it's really cool.

[00:30:15] And the thing about it is, is it's like for someone who's, my question to you is that,

[00:30:22] I mean, you, the, the cost for the extra oral unit, you said went up just because of demand,

[00:30:27] but now all of a sudden you've got this scanner and I'll put a photo of it.

[00:30:31] And I took a photo of it.

[00:30:32] It's this, it's the tiniest scanner I've ever seen.

[00:30:33] It's just, it's really small.

[00:30:36] It's very cool.

[00:30:36] It's the shining 3d, uh, their newest one that came out just last week.

[00:30:41] Um, it, it's a fine scanner.

[00:30:43] It scans, you can use it for everything else you're already using it for, but now you can

[00:30:46] also add this.

[00:30:47] If, if you're, if you're doing full large workflow, you just save yourself from having to buy a

[00:30:52] potentially very expensive camera and you get a similar functionality out of it.

[00:30:55] Yes.

[00:30:56] Uh, I think where the company is falling short and I've been hammering on this as well is,

[00:31:01] um, the, the market for full large implantology is so small compared to just, uh, the average

[00:31:08] GP bread and butter single or two.

[00:31:11] I would use this on single units and two units even.

[00:31:14] It's so good.

[00:31:15] Like I saw, I showed how easy it is to introduce errors with two scan bodies in a dent take case.

[00:31:20] Plenty of errors you can introduce.

[00:31:22] Oh, so you're saying this isn't just, I mean, this isn't just a full arch solution.

[00:31:25] It is right now.

[00:31:26] Okay.

[00:31:27] And I'm just on, I'm like, dude, you got to make us dominoes for even single units.

[00:31:31] Interesting.

[00:31:31] I think it'll replace, it'll replace all the scan bodies that we've discussed all week.

[00:31:36] Which is, I mean, it was quite a discussion because there's, I mean, there's just a ton

[00:31:41] of them, you know, and everyone probably has their favorite and stuff, but it's, it's for

[00:31:44] someone who's just getting into it, it's pretty overwhelming how much stuff there is.

[00:31:47] It'd be nice to have something to go to that way.

[00:31:49] Interesting.

[00:31:49] I hadn't thought about that.

[00:31:50] Yeah.

[00:31:50] So do you feel like, you feel like knowing that this technology is coming into the field?

[00:31:56] Is that going to, what is that going to do to full arch?

[00:31:58] You know, I mean, you still have to have the implant surgical skills.

[00:32:02] You still have to know how to plan the cases and stuff like that, but it does take, you

[00:32:05] know, it takes a pretty expensive piece of technology down quite a bit.

[00:32:09] I mean, everything we ever do in dentistry is we always want it to be faster and cheaper

[00:32:15] without compromise.

[00:32:16] Right.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:17] And, you know, you've, you talk about things, well, you can't, you know, it's very difficult

[00:32:21] to find that balance, but we do make progress.

[00:32:23] Like there's certain things in dentistry that have gotten better and cheaper and custom

[00:32:28] abutments have gotten better and cheaper all the time.

[00:32:30] Right.

[00:32:30] Yeah.

[00:32:31] Same with this.

[00:32:32] And what it translates to is just better care for our patients, faster, cheaper that

[00:32:37] we can pass on to the patients.

[00:32:39] Um, I don't do that many full arches, but when I first started doing them, it's stressful.

[00:32:43] Like, oh man, I hope this fits.

[00:32:45] Yeah.

[00:32:45] Like to, to address all those things, the, all, all the unknowns and not to have a repeat,

[00:32:50] not to have to reduce ceramics or zirconia and, uh, hassle with the lab is just, uh, the

[00:32:57] predictability, the, the ease of use, how fast it is.

[00:33:00] And the cause is just perfect.

[00:33:01] It's everything we ask for in dentistry.

[00:33:03] Yeah.

[00:33:03] Make it faster and cheaper for me.

[00:33:04] I don't want to compromise on the care, but make it faster and cheaper and I'll jump on

[00:33:08] board and you reap the rewards for that.

[00:33:10] Definitely.

[00:33:11] So I'm trying to picture what Armin's life is like.

[00:33:14] You teach a lot.

[00:33:15] You're like you said, most weekends that are not holidays, you're teaching somewhere, whether

[00:33:19] it's in your, the teaching center in Las Vegas or, or, you know, you're at a meeting

[00:33:23] somewhere or something like that.

[00:33:25] What, what is your, when you're seeing patients, you do clinical work, how often are you, how

[00:33:29] often is it, how many days a week?

[00:33:31] Pretty much early in the week.

[00:33:33] Uh, mostly Monday afternoons.

[00:33:35] I'm in LA Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, uh, still see patients that are old practice.

[00:33:40] And then usually this, like you ask me this question a month from now, I'll have a completely

[00:33:44] different answer.

[00:33:45] I get it.

[00:33:45] I get it.

[00:33:45] So, uh, you know, uh, we're in Vegas now.

[00:33:48] That's where the facility, the cool thing, the whole reason we moved to Vegas was, uh, people

[00:33:52] from the East coast hate traveling to the West coast, of course, understand they lose

[00:33:55] production one day and they lose family time the next day.

[00:33:58] Like they don't catch their flight at noon or one on Saturday.

[00:34:01] It's true.

[00:34:02] They're either have to do the red eye, which is not fun or travel on Sunday.

[00:34:06] So it's, it's pretty, for a two day course, you're spending four days coming from New York

[00:34:11] to LA.

[00:34:11] Because it's a solid day travel both ways.

[00:34:13] Yeah.

[00:34:13] Vegas is positioned so well that you can work all day till 6 PM on Thursday, no matter where

[00:34:18] you're in the country, still fly in Thursday night, get in a reasonable hour, get some good

[00:34:23] rest.

[00:34:23] Just take the course Friday, Saturday and still catch a flight home Saturday night and

[00:34:28] be home with family.

[00:34:29] Well, Vegas has every, every place has direct flights to Vegas too.

[00:34:32] That's what I mean.

[00:34:32] That's exactly it.

[00:34:33] The reality is, is like Vegas might be the only place that I don't have to, our local airport

[00:34:39] is tiny.

[00:34:40] And so it basically flies to Chicago or Detroit, but, but Flint, which is only another 20

[00:34:46] minutes from where we are, has a direct flight to Vegas.

[00:34:49] It's the only other place.

[00:34:51] So it's one of those things where even we're out in the middle of nowhere and you can get

[00:34:54] to Vegas pretty easily.

[00:34:55] So that's, you're just defining it.

[00:34:57] Makes a ton of sense.

[00:34:58] Uh, you know, I know when I make plans like, oh, I can't go there direct.

[00:35:02] I might not even go because I don't want to deal with the transfer.

[00:35:04] Yeah.

[00:35:05] We've all, we've all been burned by that, uh, where you show up late, you haven't slept

[00:35:09] and you're sleeping through the whole class.

[00:35:10] That's useless.

[00:35:11] Right.

[00:35:11] It's useless.

[00:35:12] Yeah.

[00:35:12] So, uh, so we have a facility in Vegas.

[00:35:15] I have my license in Vegas.

[00:35:16] I don't see patients in Vegas and Vegas is pretty much a suburb of LA.

[00:35:20] Yeah.

[00:35:20] So I'm back in LA all the time and I see patients there.

[00:35:24] Uh, there's some weeks I can go two weeks without seeing any patients there, but, uh, none of

[00:35:28] this stuff works unless I've tested it.

[00:35:30] I've proven that it works internally.

[00:35:32] Sure.

[00:35:32] It has more credibility, uh, for people who can have like, oh, again, I gotta, I gotta test

[00:35:37] all this stuff, see where the pitfalls are so I can communicate it to people.

[00:35:40] So that's pretty much it.

[00:35:41] I mean, it's, it's a lot easier now because our daughter graduated college.

[00:35:45] She lives in New York city.

[00:35:47] So, uh, it's, it's a lot easier than when you have a child.

[00:35:50] Yeah.

[00:35:50] That's, that's hard when you're, when you don't want your wife to be or your spouse to be

[00:35:54] a single parent.

[00:35:55] So you'll, you can't do certain things.

[00:35:58] And, uh, uh, that's, that's one of the things that I've, I've struggled to, to do

[00:36:02] a lot of the travel, especially, and actually I did more when they were little now that

[00:36:06] they're both in high school.

[00:36:07] It's amazing how, man, school started up and it is, the schedule is crazy.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] So, yeah.

[00:36:12] I mean, you don't want to miss out on that.

[00:36:13] No, you can't.

[00:36:14] And it's, it's one of these things where I always wonder how a lot of these people who

[00:36:17] did a lot of teaching while they had little kids, I don't know how they do it.

[00:36:20] It's definitely not easy.

[00:36:21] It's too much.

[00:36:22] Yeah.

[00:36:22] So, but that's, I do think Vegas was a good choice that way.

[00:36:26] And I mean, so many places, so many classes are offered in Scottsdale.

[00:36:30] It's not the same, man.

[00:36:31] It's not as direct, you know, you're flying into Phoenix and you got to get to Scottsdale,

[00:36:34] all that stuff.

[00:36:38] I don't know if it's a good choice.

[00:36:39] I'm not, I'm not the biggest fan of all that Vegas has to offer, but I'll say the traveling

[00:36:42] is real easy.

[00:36:43] Our, our facilities, uh, off the strip and, um, yeah, there's a good number of people.

[00:36:48] So a good number of people show up and they bring, you know, spouse, partner, whoever,

[00:36:52] and they stay on the strip.

[00:36:53] They have it.

[00:36:54] They have a blast.

[00:36:55] Um, usually by day two, a couple of people show up an hour late, sunglasses on at a

[00:36:59] rough night.

[00:37:00] Yeah.

[00:37:00] Uh, but, uh, probably 10% of the people hate what you just said.

[00:37:04] So they stay close to us.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:06] Uh, there is a casino close by, but there's a hotel, home two suites next door.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:11] Uh, so you can avoid all that.

[00:37:12] And it's a 15 minute drive from the airport.

[00:37:14] Very, very easy to get.

[00:37:15] It's massive.

[00:37:15] Like, you know what?

[00:37:16] It gets stuck with.

[00:37:17] Uh, you can get to our facility and faster than a strip at the hotel on the strip.

[00:37:22] Yeah.

[00:37:22] It's a very, very easy straight shot.

[00:37:24] That's awesome.

[00:37:24] I have, I'll put that, I'll put some links up so people can see.

[00:37:26] And you guys offer a lot of different classes out there.

[00:37:28] You've got the basic, it sounds like the basic scanning course is really good for team

[00:37:32] members too.

[00:37:33] Yes.

[00:37:33] We highly encourage it.

[00:37:35] We have, uh, we have quite a few people who'll take the course and then they hire somebody

[00:37:39] new.

[00:37:40] If we got the space, send them over and we'll teach them.

[00:37:42] You don't have to take the time.

[00:37:43] Like we've all gone through this, right?

[00:37:44] You, you take a weekend off.

[00:37:46] You spend thousands on a course.

[00:37:47] You take the team members.

[00:37:49] They leave, they get married, they move on, whatever life happens.

[00:37:52] You hire somebody and you're like, oh damn, I don't want to go through all that expense

[00:37:56] and headache again.

[00:37:57] We'll just send them to us and they'll sit in with everybody else.

[00:38:00] We got the room.

[00:38:00] We'll train them.

[00:38:01] We have other clinicians now that use our space, our partners, our friends.

[00:38:05] That makes a lot of sense too.

[00:38:06] We, uh, we, uh, we offer it to them, uh, uh, to utilize it.

[00:38:10] So we have quite a few who want to use the facility for all the things that we just

[00:38:14] discuss just so easy for, uh, for, uh, for the students and stuff to show up.

[00:38:19] So it's worked out really, really nicely.

[00:38:20] So then I take off into my wife works there.

[00:38:23] She works at a dental office in a Summerlin.

[00:38:26] She's loving that.

[00:38:27] So she's, uh, there most of the week.

[00:38:29] And then I traveled back and forth to LA in the beginning of the week.

[00:38:31] It's, it's very simple.

[00:38:32] It's a quick little flight.

[00:38:33] That's cool.

[00:38:34] That's fantastic.

[00:38:35] It's, it's a lot, but it's, but it's, it's a good way.

[00:38:37] Like people who do this and decide they want to do it for the long haul, have to figure

[00:38:41] out a way to make it work.

[00:38:42] It's definitely a lot easier now.

[00:38:44] And then the other thing actually is a friend of ours, Brian Teranian, if you know that.

[00:38:47] Sure.

[00:38:48] Yeah.

[00:38:48] Yeah.

[00:38:48] So Brian, I would give him hell for this.

[00:38:50] He flies now.

[00:38:51] Yes.

[00:38:51] He's a pilot.

[00:38:52] It's worked out so nicely.

[00:38:53] I just flew with him, uh, on Monday or Tuesday it was.

[00:38:56] Uh, so anyway, he does the classic thing you're not supposed to do as a dentist.

[00:38:59] He climbs a ladder to put up Christmas lights.

[00:39:02] He falls and breaks his wrist.

[00:39:03] Yeah.

[00:39:03] Done.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:04] Career is over.

[00:39:05] Uh, very unfortunate.

[00:39:06] So now he's a pilot and he's working up to get his hours so he can, uh, become a commercial

[00:39:12] pilot.

[00:39:13] That's his, uh, that's his ultimate goal.

[00:39:14] So he needs the hours.

[00:39:16] So we just trade up.

[00:39:17] Like I look up a flight from LA or Vegas to LA, and then I just buy the exact amount

[00:39:23] and fuel for him.

[00:39:24] So he just flies up, picks me up, takes me to LA.

[00:39:26] He gets his hours and I get to fly.

[00:39:28] Oh, that's cool.

[00:39:29] And miss, uh, all the chaos at the airport.

[00:39:31] Oh yeah.

[00:39:31] Totally.

[00:39:31] It's, it's worked out really nicely.

[00:39:33] That's awesome.

[00:39:33] And, uh, I need, I know how to pull a parachute on that plane too.

[00:39:36] So that's, he taught me that.

[00:39:38] So that's good to know.

[00:39:39] Just in case.

[00:39:39] Yeah.

[00:39:39] Put my wife at ease with that.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:41] And I had to pull the cord.

[00:39:42] That's funny.

[00:39:43] That's a, as I'm about to go out mountain biking, I, uh, I probably wouldn't be a pilot.

[00:39:47] I mean, I'd have to, maybe I don't know.

[00:39:49] Didn't you get hit on a bike once?

[00:39:51] I did.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:51] I did.

[00:39:51] It was four years ago.

[00:39:52] I got, I was, I was road biking then and I got hit and broke my back in two places,

[00:39:57] but, uh, I didn't need surgery or anything like that.

[00:39:59] Just healed up like normal.

[00:40:00] So I, if you're going to break your back, do it the way I did it.

[00:40:02] That's the, so I missed a day and a half of work.

[00:40:05] So that's it.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:06] That's all I miss.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:07] They put me in a brace.

[00:40:08] The guy can't not see you at all.

[00:40:10] Or what happened?

[00:40:10] Uh, they didn't see me.

[00:40:12] They were, luckily they weren't going.

[00:40:13] They were from, from a stop.

[00:40:15] They were turning left.

[00:40:15] I had the light, but he didn't see me and he turned left and hit me.

[00:40:19] So it wasn't full, full speed, but it was a, it was a, it was a wake up call for sure.

[00:40:23] So I liked a mountain bike cause there's a lot less pickup trucks on those trails.

[00:40:26] Yes.

[00:40:26] On the trails.

[00:40:27] That's the plan.

[00:40:28] That's the plan.

[00:40:29] So yeah.

[00:40:29] And I'm hoping not to break any wrists.

[00:40:31] So there we go.

[00:40:32] Good.

[00:40:32] Armin, this weekend has been spectacular.

[00:40:34] I'm, I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

[00:40:35] I know you're going to do some of the bigger, the bigger, the photogrammetry, the bigger,

[00:40:39] you know, full arch cases.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:40] I think I've given plenty of people warning that it's going to be intense and very advanced.

[00:40:44] Well, and people probably bring questions this time because they know that there's

[00:40:48] going to be less people that always happens this way on Sunday, Sunday morning.

[00:40:51] People tend to leave or leave early or whatever.

[00:40:53] And so there are going to be less people that hopefully they're the ones that are going

[00:40:56] to ask you all the questions so they can bring it out of you.

[00:40:59] Perfect.

[00:40:59] Looking forward to them.

[00:41:00] Thanks for coming up to bed.

[00:41:02] Thanks for your time.

[00:41:02] Always fun to catch up with you.

[00:41:04] Very good.

[00:41:04] We'll talk to you soon.

[00:41:06] Bye.

[00:41:07] Bye.

[00:41:07] Bye.

[00:41:07] Bye.

[00:41:08] Bye.