Group Function: Pushing the Limits of Digital Dentistry with Dr. Armen Mirzayan and Damien Bonner

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[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: First, you take a group of very dental people.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you add some interesting topics and a few microphones.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, add some laughs and collegial good cheer and you get the Group Function Podcast.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Very Dental People, welcome to another episode of the Group Function Podcast,

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: which means I have a couple guests with me here.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually up north in Bel Air, Michigan, experiencing the Vetter Society meeting.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about it a bunch on the show before and the speaker this weekend is the one and only Dr. Armin Mirzayan.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Armin, how you doing?

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing fantastic, great to be here.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So Armin is here.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: His topic is, I'm going to read the exact topic because they always make you do that,

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: pushing the limits of digital dentistry.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's been talking about digital dentistry basically all day today.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Joining us also, Armin's right hand man, if you will.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Damien, say hello. Damien Bonner.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: How's it going? Good to see you again.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, both of you guys have been on the show before everything.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He's my left-hand man, not the right-hand man.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a big difference.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a big difference and honestly I'm not sure I want any more details on that.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're actually sitting in the presidential suite of the Shanny Creek Resort

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and Armin is clearly used to this kind of treatment with the fireplace,

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: the moderately big screen TV.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You could go bigger on that wall, I think, but I mean like it's got a big,

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's got an eight-person like ballroom table in here.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's great, great.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a bar, everything like that.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Great view as well.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does have a great view of the lake.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That part is true.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So this meeting, like I've talked about before, this is a great meeting.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: People in Michigan should, and anyone really,

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: it's an inexpensive study club that gets really good speakers.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Armin is one of them.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So what have you guys thought of the people so far?

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of gray hairs.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of gray hairs up here this weekend.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not all that way, but you got to figure my dad introduced me to this group,

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: my dad who graduated from Dillon School in 1968.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of experience, although there are quite a few younger,

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: more younger people than I expected and I heard at the meeting today,

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: they introduced 19 new members this year.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's still growing.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I was a little worried about that.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I heard that number.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, that's pretty good.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you guys think of this meeting so far?

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little different, isn't it?

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'll let Demian chime in too.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's pretty impressive to see a long running track record like this

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: with a lot of attendees and the speakers you bring out.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, as I felt extremely privileged to be the same name

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: with some of the people that have spoken here.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for you guys to meet once a year,

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not easy to put this stuff together.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You've done a very good job.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you give us a little bit of background about the Vedder Society?

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Who put it together?

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a Prasadonis, right?

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: The Vedder Society.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Francis B. Vedder was apparently a Pras instructor,

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: a Prasadonis instructor at the University of Michigan.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to say like he ruled with an iron fist in like the mid-50s

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: or something like that.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually did an episode where we celebrated the 60th anniversary

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: or something like that of the...

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put that in the show notes.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's...

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it a lot, but basically it was sort of formed

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: at the University of Michigan,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's not for Michigan grads only or anything like that.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically...

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Michigan-based group, but we have members from other parts.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We have guests coming from...

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of these things where it's just...

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The important part was we come up here in the fall

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and take good CE, and if you'll notice,

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a lot of old friends that get together every...

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: In the fall.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And we actually have a spring meeting too.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So in March, we typically meet down for a day.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Friday in Lansing.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's two meetings worth

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and they get a one-day versus the whole weekend.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've had, like I said, the first one I ever went to was Frank's beer.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the year after was John Coy's.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: What year was that?

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That was 1997 and 1998.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then two years ago, Hornbrook was here.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: If you name the big speaker, particularly restorative speaker,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: they've probably been here.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen some really cool stuff.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a long-running tradition

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's typically people who've done a lot of...

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of prosodontists.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say there's a lot of prosodontists that are members.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there are that many prosodontists up here this weekend,

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are a lot.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a pros society for sure.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're pretty well-versed.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: They know what's going on.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So they always ask good questions anyhow.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's about, I think, about five or six prosodontists

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that raise their hands when I asked them.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: For me, my goal is always to make sure people are...

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: A big goal is to make sure they didn't waste their time.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Take away your time from family.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, just say...

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Armin asked that multiple times.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That's his gage through the day.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Am I wasting your time?

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone was like,

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no you're not.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: We're with you.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Take away time from family and work to be there.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got an obligation to deliver.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to make sure that you're having a good time.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's worth your time.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You're learning something.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And one thing I always try to do when I first start talking

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: is if I don't get people's attention in the first five, six minutes,

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it's over.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: They're on their phones.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They're putting out fires in the office.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So you got to come out of the gates very, very strong

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and make sure you captivate them or engage them in the content.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And once they start singing...

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Within the hour, if I haven't delivered enough material

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: for them to be interested in,

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I've probably lost them for the rest of the day.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I know how I am with my attention.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't sit in a classroom setting for eight hours like that.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's impossible.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not paying attention.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's got to be good.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's got to be visual.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I get my attention.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to figure out how I'm going to apply this.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it going to solve problems for me at the office?

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to generate more revenue?

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to put out fires?

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to have less repeats?

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to eliminate errors?

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: All those things are super critical.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So I try and address those right off the bat.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It works out generally most of the time.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Damien had said earlier,

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you speak like most weekends in Las Vegas.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you're speaking somewhere most weekends.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that about right?

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'd say that's fair.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd say pretty much every non-holiday weekend.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've had courses where two people are in the audience

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and I have courses when there's 200 people in the audience.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't phase me the way I bring just...

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: What I like about small groups is I get to try new stuff.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It does get boring, it's redundant.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same question that comes with a speaker.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you're delivering a lot of this.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So if someone...

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: When we're done today, it's like,

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: man, I got to hear more of this.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: If they go and see you in Vegas or wherever you're speaking,

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going to get a lot of this stuff.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to get a lot of it.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And every course is different.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I wait for the questions.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I ask people questions.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: He really does.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you want to see?

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I like for them to stop me

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because I feel like I have an answer or a content

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: for every possible question that comes up.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard them all.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And anytime I do something new, I get excited.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, is this going to work?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it going to be turnoff?

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it going to scare them away?

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to like this?

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So all that is a nice fun challenge for me

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so I get more interested.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So the more engaged they are,

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I treat it like a study club.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely don't talk down to people.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I make sure they see my screw up.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I make sure they see how correct things

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: have to redo things

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's not a perfect world.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We all have struggles in the office

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: from team management to patient management

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to all this stuff.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's very important that we

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you get on the same level

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're engaged with them.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You definitely did.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like, I mean, there's no doubt

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're a clinical dentist

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and you see patients like that.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of people that come

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: to the vet or that might not have seen

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: patients for a while.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You can kind of tell.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And the vet or for God,

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: for the first 15 years or so,

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it always felt like all I was doing was showing up

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and these guys are showing these amazing,

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: just wrecked mouths.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And the next slide is the most amazing case

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you ever saw.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And some of them were really good at explaining

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: how they got there.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them were there to maybe stroke

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: their ego a little bit.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But you are definitely not that.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Your cases are fantastic,

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but you're showing so many steps.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You are not leaving anything out.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of...

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I really appreciate that.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing is remember

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that this is all digital stuff.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So when did you graduate from dental school?

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: 98.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: 98.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So you were a contemper, so I graduated in 97.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to ask kind of both of you guys this.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: How did...

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And you went to UCLA, is that right?

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: For undergrad, for dental school,

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: went to Northwestern.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Northwestern, okay.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Was there digital dentistry at Northwestern?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you have any taste of anything like that

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in Northwestern?

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they had the SIRIC II in 1996

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: in the dental clinic.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And my roommate Raj,

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe got the first inlay

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: from that SIRIC machine in North America, possibly.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, at the dental school for sure.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: In his mouth or he did it?

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, in his mouth, okay.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So they had it.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you get a chance to...

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, I'm trying to remember.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to have to text them and ask him.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, we did see the SIRIC.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, in dental school,

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: we just focused on graduating, getting a license,

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: getting a stout.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: The last thing you're thinking about

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: is all this advanced stuff

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to be using in your...

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, totally.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was just trying to survive.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So when did you know that digital dentistry

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: was something that you were going to be like

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: digging into?

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how did that come out?

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the other thing that we need to talk about

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: is that you and I were on Dentaltown early.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You were earlier than me even,

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but like in Dentaltown was sort of...

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, the communication there to me

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: seems like the birthplace of a lot of this stuff where...

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd say that's an extremely fair statement.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you think about dentistry

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and how traditionally you got the information.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It was these meetings once a year, twice a year.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It was conventions.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're getting information at light speed.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if there's a junk product,

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: we know within days, just a handful of users,

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: this doesn't work or this works spectacularly well.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's dramatically changed.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: To answer your question, why got into digital?

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I knew once I graduated,

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew there's no way I'm taking analog impressions

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: for the next 40 years of my career.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew I'm going to get into digital.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I understood the benefits.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you'd seen that, Sarek, though,

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: in dental school, you knew...

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know there was such a thing.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I was paying attention.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I went to one meeting

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and I saw it in action.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: This is fantastic.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's exactly where I need to be.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The materials were awful at that point.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Everything was terrible.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like a felt-spanthic and lusite ceramic.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I replaced hundreds of failed ceramics.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the joke today, by the way.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a felt-flat. Nobody got that.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just knew right away

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: this is how it's going to be.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when I started from scratch,

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I had some part-time jobs elsewhere as associates.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But I had the time from a scratch

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: to start to learn how to use this.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: The biggest thing is, back then with Sarek,

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: it was so complicated.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You needed to book days

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: where there's no patience just to learn it.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's much easier to do it now.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But I had the time from a scratch start.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, my first inlay took...

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I did the craziest thing.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I did an M-O-D-B-L.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: If you know anything about milling,

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the hardest thing to mill.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to get around all these nooks and crannies

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: of the restoration.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So it took about four hours to do a single unit.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the first time that was rough.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You just get better and better over time.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I used that material where it didn't belong.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Short second molars.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: To me, they weren't even indicated for crowns.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I was doing them and I replaced a bunch.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And then E-Max came out in 2006

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and that changed the trajectory of it.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, this is now solid material.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We got something that lasted for a long time.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's performing well.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That definitely sent Sarek up into worse speed.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So you were early money on Sarek.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And then...

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So I got to bring Damien in here though

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: because Damien, how did you get started?

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Damien is sort of...

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know how you describe your role at Cadray

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: other than you are the guy that knows things

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and fixes things.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I know you as.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you have an actual role,

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's kind of what I know you as.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my role changes pretty much every day.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever they need.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you need, boss.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That's everybody at Cadray.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: We're very versatile

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to meet the needs of the dentist,

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: most importantly.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, my story started with Sarek as well.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Back in 2008, started at Patterson

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: with Sarek.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Rich and John who started the company with Armin

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: met them at Patterson

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's sort of how everything started.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So Sarek is in our DNA.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It's grown a lot since then obviously.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, yeah.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So you were...

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: What's really funny is I'll put a link in the show now.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a point where something's going on with my I-700.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: This was got a couple years ago now

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and I called into Panic

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and Damien came on the line

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and I went to lunch and he fixed it while I was at lunch.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I went to Taco Bell and he fixed by my computer.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's sort of the Cadray.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I basically talked about Cadray,

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: they sell all kinds of digital dentistry products

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: but more importantly,

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: they're also the people you call when you need help with it

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because everyone's gonna need help with some of this stuff.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes this is how it works.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes stuff doesn't talk the way it's supposed to or whatever

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's why I would highly recommend going with these guys

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: because it sounds to me like basically

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Armin learned how to do this stuff by doing it back in the day

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and you were right there too, Damien,

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: in the middle of all that stuff.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So you've seen a lot of stuff.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Like when stuff goes wrong,

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: there's probably not a lot you haven't seen.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that accurate?

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean from a Cadray standpoint,

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: we take over 150 phone calls a day

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're basically all the same thing for the most part.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's redundancy.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We can fix things without even being behind a computer

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: walking a doctor through the steps of what to do

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to get them back up and running.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a really good piece of the puzzle.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Damien already said today

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: when we were introducing everybody in the morning

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: about what we do at Cadray was...

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you phrased it very perfectly

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: is that we only sell digital technology

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and what's great Alan is you watch this.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You were there like at ground zero when we started.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So Damien's point was that we only sell technology

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you're not happy with what we provided for you,

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it's awful business for us.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We have nothing else to sell.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We work hard to make sure there's not a single unhappy user.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll take some return machines once in a while.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Just doctor wasn't ready.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't going to happen, no problem.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But the worst thing for us is a bad experience

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: for a clinician and that warrants spreads.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So we work really hard. Damien and his team work super hard

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to make sure people are satisfied

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: because there's no bigger form of flattery

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: when they come back for other quick.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of our users have multiple scanners,

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: have printers and there's nothing more flattering

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: for all of us Damien and his team

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: when somebody comes back and says,

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you guys did such a great job with my scanner.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready for a mill. I'm ready for a machine.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready for a printer

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: because we have no other recourse.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't do a good job with that.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't have a business.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's imperative that our users are very happy.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think you phrased that very nicely this morning.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: What's better than them coming back

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: for those other products is them sending

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: their friends and colleagues.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Just like a dental office, referrals or everything.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: If we're getting referrals then we're doing our job right.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that's funny is you guys should

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: keep your eye on dental meetings.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We were sort of having this talk at lunch.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Dental meetings are weird.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They're sort of dying a little bit.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say that you guys

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: are worth looking for in a dental meeting.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I've run into you guys in Chicago as well

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: as the greater New York and stuff like that.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: What's funny is you guys do a really good job of...

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, their booth

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: is literally bursting with all

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the products that they sell.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You can kind of get your hands on all of them.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're constantly adding new stuff honestly.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's...

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We were laughing like back when

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Armour and I first got out of dental school.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: You'd go to the meetings because everything

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you saw there was new to you.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But now nothing's new.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The internet, like Armour said,

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in a week you know if something's terrible

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: or if it's great. So you go to the meetings

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and you already know what you're going to look for.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And you guys are one of the things that I always look for

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: because you'll have the actual stuff

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that people are talking about that you can touch.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was in Chicago in February

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I got to see the TRIO 5-Up Club close and personal.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wow, that's very cool.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And you had to write the booth.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there are still reasons

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to go to meetings. You guys might be

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: one of them just because you have your hands

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: on kind of thing. It's very cool.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And more importantly we actually know how to use the product.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So answering the questions that you have

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: not delaying a response.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you come to the booth

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you get the information that you need.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said they come sort of knowing

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: what they want or what they're looking for.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And having multiple

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: products to meet the need of every

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: single dentist is important.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: For so long I was pigeonholed into

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the CERIC world where CERIC

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: is not right for everybody.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But now we have a product that meets

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: every dentist needs.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Something funny that

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I realized in about 20 minutes

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: into Armin's talk this morning

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and you guys

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: have kind of said this and I didn't necessarily

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I didn't necessarily believe it

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but I totally do know. You guys do not care

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: what scanner someone is using at all.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you guys have a lot of scanners on offer

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: at Cadray.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And what Armin said is like

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_00]: look I can get you to the same

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: point with whatever scanner.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: There are some scanners have

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: certain things that are

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: different or fancier or

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: cables, no cables all that

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: wires, no wires. But essentially

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you guys

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because of the fundamentals of scanning

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that are really important

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and clearly you guys teach

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it isn't that important what scanner you have.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So speak to that a little bit

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: either one of you guys.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Especially when doctor comes in not knowing

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: what they want, they think they want minute

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: they think they want trios they ask us what's best

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: they're all great. At the end of the day

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to take you through the process

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and make you successful with the ever

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: solution you want.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Just the way we approached it this morning where I said

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: what's great is there's a whole

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: range now. The barrier to entering

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Catcam or digital impressioning

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: is so low now you can get

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: a very good scanner for under 10 grand

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: now you have all the way up to 25

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: 30 grand.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd say, Jamie can correct me, I'd say probably

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: a third of our users

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: would just want the highest

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: quality material, the highest level

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: of service so a $25,000

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: proposition for a scanner that's going to

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: generate so much revenue for them is not an

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: issue at all. On the flip side we'll have

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: young docs just graduated like money's

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: tight I get it I've been there I've struggled

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and they want to get in the game but

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a $25,000

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: rally so it's quite a few months profit

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: so it's not a legitimate

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or something they want to

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: incorporate in their office just yet but

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: getting him into the game is very very important

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: so that barrier has been dramatically

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: reduced and then once...

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to laugh a little bit when you're talking about

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: your top end scanner product is

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_00]: $25,000, $30,000

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: when literally the same brand, wasn't the

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: TRIO's three like $50,000

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: with, yeah I mean like that.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It's changed radically.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's dramatically changed there's I think

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: like 30 some company companies

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: now with scanners some of them will make it they don't have

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: the R&D budget to really

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: put it and they have to step up a lot

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: now to keep up with competition

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but the competition has driven

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: down their prices like you said the same

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: TRIO's, the TRIO's five now would

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: probably be worth $50,000, $60,000,

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: $70,000. Sure, sure. A few years back

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it's down to $25,000

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the company is also realizing

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that it used to be one and done you sell

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: a scanner to one doc and it's over

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't see that doc for seven years

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: until the machine

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02]: crafts out now we're seeing a lot

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: of docs with multiple machines

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: hygienists scanning, assistants scanning

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: they're scanning and they get it

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know it's the classic thing

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you make an investment you're scared

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: did I waste money am I going to regret this

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: do I have buyers or more and then once

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: it starts working and you milk it for every

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: dollar you possibly can that's what we do

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: we show you how to use it a thousand different ways

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: then your next purchase decision

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: is so much more comfortable for you

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not sweating it, no one's

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: going to stiff you, you're not going to get stuck

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: with a machine, will help you even get rid of it

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: if it doesn't work out for you

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so all those things are extremely rewarding

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: we don't think of ourselves as in sales

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_02]: we're a service provider the expertise

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Damien has he knows more about

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: dentistry than most dentists. Sure, yeah

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: he's very proficient

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone on the team knows what they're doing

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: what they're delivering and bottom line

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: is we want happy clients happy customers

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that's how we win that's how we've grown

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you've seen it from scratch

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: like we mentioned you saw early

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: on you're one of the first people who got

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you trusted over the scanner and then

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you got another scanner and it's worked out

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: for your practice that's all we could ask

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: for there's nothing more horrible than

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: an unhappy client. You know

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: what scanner I started with I had

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: the 3M I had the 3M

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the one that was on a it was on

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: a Microsoft it was the one that was a

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: little briefcase one. I would keep that

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: to yourself because you're the unicorn

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't want to publicly admit you bought

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: that. What's so funny is yeah first up

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I dropped for the amount I

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: paid for it I could have gotten

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: probably almost one of the new ones

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that you got I mean

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll bet you I was close to I think it was

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like 13 grand or something that I got it

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and I had the little powder gun

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I just sold it to the local assisting

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: community college

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: for like 500 bucks

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and that was a steal I got

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I got away with murder on that deal it wasn't

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: probably worth the hardware they were made for now but

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean the powder I remember at the time

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: they were selling oh the powder is not that big of a deal

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: like no the powder is a big deal actually

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I mean powder has use

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: it wasn't a big deal until you didn't need it anymore

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: then it became out that was the huge deal

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly so it's

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: a little funny I can't you know I can't say too

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: bad it is funny that 3M looking back

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: 3M getting that seems crazy to me I know there's

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: a whole story there too but so the bottom line is

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: so that scanning the concept

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: of scanning is all

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't matter what scanner you have

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the fundamentals are the same Damien say

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: something about that

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey very clinical listeners are you

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: ready to add implants to your practice

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: feeling overwhelmed by the procedure

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: not sure where to get training well we

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: have an answer for you join our very

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: own Dr. Kevin Fryer in beautiful

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Raleigh North Carolina this November 4th

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_00]: through 8th for a week of didactic

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and hands-on training for dental implants

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that will get you ready to start placing them

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[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: www.3ddentist.com

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: so I mean I hate to use the word

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: disposable

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm because ten thousand dollars is

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: still a lot of money sure sure but for someone

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: who wants to get into digital dentistry

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to spend as little as ten thousand

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: dollars now grow the practice

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and then

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: transfer to something else mm-hmm that

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: that you would have realized an investment

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty quick of that that's a good idea what it

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: does to your patients in practice

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: whether it's a

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: ten thousand dollar scanner thirty thousand

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: dollar scanner

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the the

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: fundamentals like you said are exactly the same

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: basis the same everyone at room today

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say maybe we had six or seven

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: customers in that room who bought from us

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but they all have scanners yeah and every

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_01]: one of them is not in their head because what we

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: talk about is the same for itero

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and seric and things that we don't sell

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah the fundamentals don't change at all

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you realize what it's looking for and

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you give it what it needs you're going to have success

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so arm and you talked a lot about

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the the scan path and I mean

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the companies

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: have an educational

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: they would tell you how they want it but

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you you sort of you guys kind of developed

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: over time the scan path you sort of talked

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: about today and a lot of those things you

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about I have to say I've run into

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: all those problems and I'm not sure that

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I I've solved them but I'm not sure that

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: like the bottom line is you you probably how

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: did you figure out the scan path that you recommend

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone such a good loaded question

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of the stuff you saw today to

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: easily ten years to come that's what I

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_02]: figured so okay let's let's break this down

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: so your like you said it's not the scanner

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the object that you're scanning

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: okay and stone models plastic models

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: handle light very differently than enamel

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: does dentin handles it extremely different

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: than enamel does metal reflect so you

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_02]: have all these characteristics you got

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to be aware of that can bend lights

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or reflect lights or alter light in

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: such a fashion we distort things they

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: introduce errors and it took me a long

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: time to understand like I was looking at

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like why would the trios give me

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: double models why would the medic give

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_02]: double models I'm not going to lie I was

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: so glad to hear that that like you get

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because when you get that when I get the

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: double model I wouldn't quite know what

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing I'd be I figure I was just I

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: just sucked at it but then when you're

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: saying oh no the trios does the same

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: thing you're like oh wait a second so

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it's it's it's not that it's not me

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not the scanner it's how I'm

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: using it you know so precisely so if

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: every scanner can introduce that error

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's not the scanner right right

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the object we're scanning yeah so

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: like I said in the presentation day it's

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the first time anybody's had to think

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: of refraction since dental school right

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: we all know with you trying to photograph

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: two structure you have all these

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: things to worry about with light how

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: lights transmitted same thing with a scanner

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: as a it's a light that hits the mirror

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and the scanner's tip it bounces off

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the two structure and the cameras

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: pick up the data that's coming in

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: at 30 40 50 frames per second

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: so when you see it happening across the

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: board on all scanners and you start

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: putting together that's not the scanner

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it's the object that we're scanning and it

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: took me a long time to understand

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: it's refraction bending of the light

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that puts data where it doesn't belong

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in no man's land and the software can

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: get confused and start building a model

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: outliers that don't exist and next

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: we have the double models yeah

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: so then you look at all the the scan

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: paths that people recommend especially

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: in the lower anteriors a teeth are

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: so small yep if you have a size

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: a little enamel that can do all

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_02]: they can wreck all kinds of havoc on the

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: accuracy of the scanner and you wonder

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: why the manufacturer recommends that you

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: toggle and you pick up buckle angle

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: information from that and you quickly

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: figure out all that's just to keep you on

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: track we can't rely on enamel yeah

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it's too much error why don't we image

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: something beyond the am enamel like

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: gum tissue and capture that to help

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: us stay on track so everything

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you've seen is it's not like all of

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: a sudden I just came out of nowhere

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like years of struggle of understanding

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: why it's why did I get double models

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: with a sirac well you're powdering

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: it and you're imaging it

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and you never had to deal with reflection

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: fraction you mastered with the topography

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly that makes sense yeah

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: so you put that together and then you

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: come up with this I don't think any of the stuff

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I've discussed is in any of the literature I

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: don't know it's been published at all

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm not a researcher on the scientists

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_02]: with digital dentistry it's

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: like as soon as you print something

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it's out of date or it's just

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: so irrelevant yeah it just doesn't matter

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so cool thing is with

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: nowadays with the information

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that your fingertips that comes down the pipe

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: through all this social media stuff

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you learn things very very quickly and

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess yeah it's the way

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you used to do it 50 years ago on steroids

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: instead of waiting every six months to get any

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: information you get every six seconds

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know right away

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: right off the bat if it's good for a year or not

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's a that's a quick summary

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: of how we got here that's a very good point so

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: we take that call

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: every day as well yeah scanner is broken

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: it's double imaging yeah

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: which really nice is we can go into the software

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: we can play back the scan for them and pinpoint

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly where it happened

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and how to prevent it in the future yeah

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and yeah it's always in the

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: interior when you come around that corner too

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: why is it so dang hard to come around the corner for the canine

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: what's that all about is that the same thing

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: pretty much so

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_02]: think of it this way you go from the molar

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: big fat cross-section of millicon

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: millicon visualized I have cuss tips

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and grooves there's so much detail you go to

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: premolar you shrink what probably 30%

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you're the canine compared to the molar

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you shrunk the tooth

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: 80%

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the point of the incisal edge is all

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: an animal so you went from big fat surface area

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and a point of big pointy enamel yeah

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah and uh and then

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: on the buckle in the lingual vestibule if it's out

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: of the focal distance then pick up on that

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: information so now you're just imaging

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: incisal edge

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of a canine that's really tall without

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: picking up the gum tissue on either side

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: all of a sudden you've derailed

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: because of the light

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't normally get a double image

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: there you know what I get it just stops

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: taking the data in

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I gotta go back and find my

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: so your point one of the points you make

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: is basically you kinda start

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in the posterior and you get a landmark

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can always go back to

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that's kinda the important part

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been doing this for a while and it's only more recently

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that I realized that was sort of the key of it you know

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's uh what happens is when you first start

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: scanning the bottle

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: the model that you capture

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: we call that the home base

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: or call that your purchase point whatever you want to call it

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: um you don't want to do it in the anterior

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: because of all the stuff we just talked about enamel

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and skinny teeth

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of material there

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you start in the back of the mouth you don't start by the second molar

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: cause generally you have the tongue, the cheek

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: the saliva interfering with it

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: so you start by the second premolar

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: first molar for a new user

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you image that area you capture the palatal

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_02]: occlusal and buccal information

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: call that your purchase point home base like I said

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but from then on

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the software knows you're building

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: a model around this from there

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: from there yeah yeah so now anything

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that you scan by default that's mobile

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: finger, tongue, cheek whatever it is

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it knows it's not part of the equation

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: so it ignores it uh whereas everything else

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: that's emobile the tooth that you're trying to scan

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: is readily captured you build on that model

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so getting that purchase point

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: is super important and it's very easy to

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: do in the back of the mouth worst place to do that is the lower anterior

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah yeah you can't get a good purchase point

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: we hammer that all day long in the presentation

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah now that was really good

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and honestly if you have a scanner

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're struggling with it

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it would make sense to you know

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: you guys teach in other places but just go out to Las Vegas

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and listen to Aaron for a little I think

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like my only regret being here

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: is that I can't go try it

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you know try some of these things because

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the few times that I've gotten really struggling

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it's almost always that it's almost always that

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and now that I'm excited to try it

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you know as a scanner

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: user you know after hearing it

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and you guys been saying you gotta come out

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I just haven't made it so I'm glad you came here

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: it's worth

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it's worth the

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: it's worth going

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: over these things again even though

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a tool and I think that there's a lot of

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: dentistry like that you know it's worth

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: how many times

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you've used the same bonding agent for how many

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: years and then you know what

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone's while you go back and look at the instructions and go oh my god

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: they've either changed them

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: or I've changed them in my head

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: something dumb like that so the reality is these

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: fundamentals are really worth going back over

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that might be reason enough to go

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: see Armin about this stuff

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: because he's doing this all the time so he's catching stuff

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: so I have a couple questions

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: when did you start using your mouth

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: as the model in lecturing?

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say I've never seen anyone

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: use the scanner and scan their own teeth

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and use the I think that's kind of hilarious

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's the authenticity

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: hard to argue with right like

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not like you pulled

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: you're not telling any lies

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: because you scanned it right in front of them

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it was hilarious

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned the lecture too

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: so my mouth is a mess

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: like I always say out of Fulmathry I've done about

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: 20 years ago

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got one failing implant

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: in the lower jaw I've got

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: an implant that's perforated to the sinus

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: lateral window never healed from 20 some odd years ago

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: with a nasty cellulitis infection

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I always joke and say

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: it's actually not a joke a bunch of people

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: graduated dental school working on my mouth

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so it's just a great experiment but in my

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: lower left quadrant it's just

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: absolutely disgusts my wife she's

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: she's a dentist she's like dude you're a dentist

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: you're speaking in front of the dentist and you have some missing teeth

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like it makes for such a good demo

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02]: it's perfect

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a great demo

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly right so every new scanner I get

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the first thing I try and do is how does it manage this area

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_02]: people saw a clear difference

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: between scanners with bigger surface area

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: how easily and readily captured

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: versus smaller tips

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it was classic

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: he went in and scanned the same area

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: in his mouth with two different scanners

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to show the difference between the smaller and larger

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: scanning area which by the way

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Arm and I were talking about this

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00]: like

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you hate to go oh I've got

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: do I need a new scanner? well I have to say

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really realize that the surface area

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of the

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: field of view makes a huge difference

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in the ease and the speed

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: of which you can scan

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I always thought oh it's computing power

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: well it's probably that too but the reality is the bigger

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: area you can scan and that's one

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: of the differences between the desktop scanner

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because they've got this huge field of view

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that they can scan precisely

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: if you recall

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the sirek I forget

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you use it when

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: we used to just take one single shot

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah yeah yeah and what was

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: compelling you prepped for that single shot

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: what was impressive about that is the

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: fit of the restoration was

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: spectacular now

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: contacts, occlusion all that

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you're grinding in probably took

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: longer to grind that in than it was to mill the restoration

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's all born from there

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: a single shot you don't introduce

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: any of the errors when you start introducing

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: more and more shots then

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it starts to you don't know what the software is doing

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_02]: is it merging these two pictures together

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: is it averaging it let's say one

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: image you cast a shadow

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: under the hide-a-con tour how does

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: the software handle that we saw that when

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: went from sirek single shot to sirek

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: multiple shots you can see how

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the averaging and stuff would alter your model

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: actually became less precise the bigger

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: the model was yeah so all that

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: is all in herring built in from the experience

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that we had and

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: one thing was for certain

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the more I captured

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in a single shot in a single frame

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: the more likely it was at stay on track

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just a real simple

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: part of the equation that we knew and that's been extrapolated to here

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_02]: so most of the

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: scanners were in the 15

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: millimeter range now they're encroaching

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 19 to 20 millimeters

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: there's still software issues there's still some things

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: but you get the more

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: data you fit in that one

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: window the life scan

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: window in a single frame the more likely

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: it is you stay on track okay so

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: let's actually make it even more profiled

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: driving home so if you have an indential

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: span between two objects sticking out of the

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: indential is rich prep teeth

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_02]: unprep teeth implant superstructures

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: if that distance is so large that you

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: can't capture it in a single frame

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's all a dential is space between

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: those two objects then you have

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to assume that

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that model is inaccurate

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: if you can fit two objects

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: in that frame let's say you have an

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: indential span between two teeth

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_02]: or two implant superstructures and you can

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: fit that whole complex in one single

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: frame the odds of that being accurate

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: skyrocket yeah this is a dential

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is flat planes that are symmetric

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: that derail things now for the vast

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: majority of stuff that we do like you're making a denture it's no big deal

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you're gonna be relining it you don't want

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't need that accuracy but if you're delivering

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: a bridge that fits on implant superstructures

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to be within 10 20 microns

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and that little error that's introduced

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: by taking multiple scans and not staying

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: on track is exactly leads to

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: disappointing results totally

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: alright with that in mind I got a

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: question so I was talking with Damien earlier

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: today and we were like I'm a

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_00]: meta user and I got to say

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: that I have an eye 700 the eye 900

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: having it in my hand I'm like who

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a much bigger that's a much

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: bigger tip than the eye 700 that I have

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a smaller smaller

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: unit but the software

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very familiar with the medit software

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very familiar with and I'm asking like so what do you think about

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: the shining 3d software so

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you had a really you had a really good analogy

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00]: there they're good software

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but like the medit was the iPhone

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_00]: to the shining 3d Samsung

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: so there's so speak to that a little bit

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I mean at the end of the day

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: used to get point A to point B

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: it just looks a little awkward the

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: words are different the tools are in different

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: spots but they're very similar

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: softwares and what you can do with it

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: okay multiple bytes

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: between the difference between them

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: for you sleep or

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: just taking different bite positions sure

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_01]: both of those exist in the software

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: some of the tools that you use the

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: applications in the medit software are

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_01]: available in the in the shining software

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: as well for for temp designs

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: for night guards or splints

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: so very similar

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: softwares

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: allow you to do a lot of things

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and get out of a lot of trouble

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah the medit the medit

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: free stuff with medit

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: it's shocking what you can do all kinds

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: of stuff in there is shining going in

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that direction or is medit kind of the

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the the the

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 800 pound gorilla and well there's there's a lot

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: of a lot of talk recently on social

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: media with medit I don't know if you know but they

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: raised their clouds yeah I 99 cents

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and 99 which is still the best deal

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of course cloud storage for anybody but it

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: raised a lot of eyebrows yeah so

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: can't speak for a company with a future but

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: if you put enough

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: people are getting people are getting used to that

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: software being available they can pull the plug

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and say hey we're gonna start charging for

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: this I don't know I'm not saying it's gonna happen

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but if you feed enough

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: people they'll come back

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: so right now shining is not in that

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in that hemisphere in that

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: space okay but they're

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: putting out some really nice stuff

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah especially the new shining elite scanner

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_00]: which was released last week yeah that's

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I took a picture of it and you

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_00]: can check on the Facebook group and hopefully

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I get a chance to play with it for you guys leave

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and you were talking before about how people

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: learn in an instant what's available

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: what's good yeah to be quite honest

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: our phones have been off the hook

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: with people calling in wanting to know

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: more information on the shining elite

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: how do we get it how long is it gonna take

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to get it and it's available now we're able

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to deliver right away that's really cool

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I need to correct you Damien if

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: other distributors or the elite are listening

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: to this it's an awful scanner don't waste

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: your time yeah the worst thing ever it's

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: terrible it's made in China it's not reliable

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't want to be selling this it's a

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: terrible scanner don't bother yeah you heard

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: it from you heard it from the man himself

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: that's right oh by the way I just wanted to say

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to add something under this now

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're pretty seasoned I don't know if

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that's fair we're just more experienced now

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: we'd realize what it takes for

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: a manufacturer to bring a successful product

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah like you gotta you gotta make sure

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: they're well funded you gotta make sure they have a good

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: support system you gotta make sure they're there

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: for the long run they need some

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: credit but they need some

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: some history behind them and I'd say

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: with shining we probably ignore them

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: for a very long time

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but they've held their own it's been pretty impressive

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: what they've accomplished what they've

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: what they've grown into and

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: we're much more cautious now because

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: there's plenty of scanners available now

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: but you got to show us that you can

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: keep developing get a show us that you have

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: an infrastructure in place you got to keep showing

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: us it's not just a scanner anymore you got

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to be able to deliver

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02]: just like okay so the way I see it is

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_02]: our clients the doctors

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_02]: have responsibility to their patients

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and then we have a responsibility to put

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: something in the doctor's hand that's going to

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: deliver on what we promise we got to make

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: sure it works and we can't

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: just bring on any random person

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: anymore any random manufacturer we got to

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: make sure you can deliver on what

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: we're promising our doctors so we have

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: we use a lot we're scrutinizing

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: who we partner with a lot more than it would

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: before yeah we brought on some products that

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: are absolute disasters in the past

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's extremely costly the

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: problem is we don't know how

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: well a product is going to perform how

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: well that company is going to do

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_02]: until it's been good six months

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_02]: of you know solid going

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_02]: back and forth and figuring things out

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: are they responsive had one

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: milling company I'd send a

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_02]: request for some help and it'd be

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_02]: six days before they responded

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and then it'd be another milling company

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I can call the guy and instantly

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_02]: text me back yeah all those

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: things you figure out like no I'm not going to

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: put this milling machine in this doctor's

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: office they're going to be very frustrated

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: we can't resolve it very quick so

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: we've gotten very good at deciphering

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: who's a legitimate player

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and who's probably going to say to say

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: who's going to be flashed in the pan

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: because we cannot afford

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we can't afford mistakes anymore

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: it's very very costly sure I get that

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: completely I would say that there's

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: probably five viable

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: scanners in the market that actually makes

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: sense to purchase there's

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: 60 different scanners out there from

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: different companies and you may be one of

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_01]: 10 people who own it in the US

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a bad investment in my opinion

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have the support network

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you don't have the user base

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: we have a Facebook group for our users

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: where they ask questions

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and feed off each other

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: those don't exist in these other scanners

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: they're about the same price as what you're

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: paying for a medit or a shining

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01]: so I don't see the value in it

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but different strokes

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: for different folks yeah definitely

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: so Armin you were actually during the lecture

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you were doing a lot

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: within the medit software

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Armin has a lot of

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: preloaded stuff that he can show video

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and slides but he also does

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: manipulates a lot of stuff while he's explaining

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and a lot of it was done in the

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: medit software and I know

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you also did some in XLCAD

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: but a lot of the medit

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: is just that the medit software is convenient

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: for a lot of your users are already

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: medit users and it's really slick

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: tell me about that because there are so many

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_00]: like you showed a model building

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that honestly I knew that the model builder

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: was there but I had never tried it because it was intimidating

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I saw what you did and I think I can probably do that

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just curious about your thoughts

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: on that suite of tools

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah that's pretty interesting to me that you bring that up

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: because it was like the fourth time that I've talked to you

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I keep bringing up the tools and the software

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: so it clearly tells me it was interesting

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: to you it's something you would explore

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I was the guy at lunch I was like God

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew they were there and I didn't look

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and Armin sort of dug in in the second half

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of the lecture on the tools it was great actually

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: so always my goal

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is always to make sure the doctor

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: milks every penny

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: out of that scanner so I'll make sure

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: they like you may be interested in the model

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: builder and that guards next guy may not

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: be she may like the smile

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: design which we haven't actually shown yet

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but there's so many there's so many

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: ways to use that machine

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: we're very comfortable you get your money's worth

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_02]: when you start utilizing it on a daily

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: basis you integrate it into your practice

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_02]: use it for all these different things so

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a confidence booster but to answer you directly

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you have quite a few

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: cat software out there you have quite a few

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: free cat software that are not

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: down related mesh mixer was the big one

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah mesh mixer early on very

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: intimidating I don't like it at all I don't

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't find it intuitive at all

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not like our brains for Dennis like

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_02]: we're very visually it's got to be

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: it's got to be quick and easy mesh mixer

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: is not and this software

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: is back in like 2016

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it was it was 2016 because of the

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the first the first Trump election

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_00]: was going on I remember the the night

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that the night that

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: right it was right for the election so it's

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_00]: November 2016

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Corey

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_00]: brought

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Jason Lipscomb myself Melissa

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Zettler we all went

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: like Corey's parents house in Tennessee

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I was I was there giving a lecture for

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Russell Russell he was a podcaster he's

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a neurosurgeon there and he was using me for a

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: substance abuse this is crazy I can't believe I'm

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_00]: remembering this and in

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Corey brought us over there and he I think

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like okay who are the two dumbest guys

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_00]: in dentistry I can think of yeah Jason L

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00]: let's get them and he he sat us

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_00]: down with a with laptops and he

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: we still like a day and a half he was showing

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00]: us how to and we and it was part of it was mesh

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_00]: mixer and I was like my eyes got really big and

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like this is serious oh it's

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00]: unbelievable of course I mean if you think about

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_00]: what's happened since 2016 and what Corey

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_00]: has been doing with you know and I he was

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we were syncing up

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_00]: CT

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_00]: with inter-all scans he was kind of

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think he brought Jason and I in so we

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00]: could talk about on the podcast but also to

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: it was sort of like okay

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: he was getting ready to start teaching this

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff widely he wanted to make sure that

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_00]: it was a proof of concept and it was really

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: really good so that means that's been

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: eight years ago now more than eight years

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_00]: practically it's just funny to think and I know you

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: like you were the first guy that Corey

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you were the guy remember you had the challenge with Corey on the

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_00]: unguided surgery remember that guy that

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: was a long time that was fun so

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I kept harassing him you know freehand

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: again dental town yeah exactly

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_02]: he kept placing him freehand I'm like

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: oh just wait till you get a CT scanner

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you do don't scan your cases

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: if you get a CT scan yeah and then

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_02]: he finally got it and I told them okay

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I wager that within the first

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: 15 CT scans

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that you take of the work that you've done you'll

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_02]: find a perf and he took me up on

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that bet he says he won

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the bet because it was the 20th case

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_02]: not the first okay okay so it wasn't within

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_02]: that margin but he saw it and as

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: he knows a big believer on a side note though with

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Corey I love sharing this story. Just Corey Glenn

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: by the way sorry about that Corey who's been on the show a bunch

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_02]: don't see hassles me so I'm perfectly comfortable

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_02]: harassing him I'm the

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_02]: only person that's lost money on Corey

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_02]: because he I've hired him to do the

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: first lecture he'd ever done

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and only three people

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: attended and I lost

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: 500 bucks by paying his

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_02]: stipend and then the gender

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: after that it took off yeah been on fire

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_00]: every oh he's he's he if you get

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a chance to see Corey those guys are great

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: just could not be happier for him I just

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_00]: laughed though because these are this is all like

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_00]: these connections are weird they go way back

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: it's such a small field it is in some way the same people

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's awesome that way totally

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: well watch each other grow which is always

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: very fun and now

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_02]: reassuring it's been a lot of fun but

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: to your point that you like that visual

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: of that meta software

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it's doing the same thing as a measuring series

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_02]: so much easier to stomach it is

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: it is user interface all that

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: stuff it's so critical they worked hard on

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: that for clearly it's it's very

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: well thought out to

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: everything is very intuitive and that's what

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_02]: we need as Dennis like we don't want to get

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: stuck in as you call the tool wonderland

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to get from a to z very

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: very quick yeah and that software

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned it before

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: it's free yeah worth more than the scanner

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's extremely easy to use like

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Exocat I don't find user friendly

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: at all yeah find that it's

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: for dentist use it's just

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: too involved to people

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah it's just just just too robust

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: same with blue sky biosoftware great software

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't cost anything but it's extremely robust

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and very intimidating for a new user

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: so you got to balance those things

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you may not touch it just for that reason

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: which is unfortunate so

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: to keep it simple and answer you

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: there's plenty of free software that

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_02]: alternatives people could use I just found

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: this to be the easiest and it's free

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_02]: sub zero hesitation to recommend

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that's awesome well so we've been going for a while

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think what I'm going to do

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: because I had I was I was going in a whole

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_00]: direction of photogrammetry and

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_00]: basically the shiny the new shining scanner

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's a lot to talk about there but

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_00]: so we're going to leave this as a cliffhanger

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll come back to it sometime because that's really worth talking about

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: okay okay well I'll leave

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: the stuff here we'll do a second podcast that's awesome

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you guys thank you for being on this with spectacular

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and I guess

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_00]: this is part one get ready for part two thanks a lot