Very Clinical: Avoiding "Fiddledontics" with Dr. Ash Mark

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[00:01:45] Welcome to the Very Clinical Podcast! In about the time it takes to do an M.O. on 3,

[00:01:50] we will entertain an amazing with tips and tricks on regular daily dentistry. Here's Kevin and Zach.

[00:01:57] What is up, very clinical listeners, and welcome back to yet another episode of The Very Clinical

[00:02:02] Podcast. This is Zach Miners, from Kansas City, Missouri. With me as always my trusty co-hosts,

[00:02:08] Dr. Kevin, hair, fryer, Kevin, what is going on over in Cleveland. It's March. We're marching forward.

[00:02:14] It's almost spring. Life's good. We're doing great. I wonder how things are way up north.

[00:02:24] As promised, we were bringing back Dr. Ashmark from Canadia. So this is an international podcast.

[00:02:31] What's up, Ash? Hey, not much boys. Just, yeah, Canadia. We're getting through the doldrums of

[00:02:40] winter. I'm not sure you guys know what it's like, but well wait a sec, you guys have a, it gets dark

[00:02:48] in the early and the day, like shortened days. For sure. You know what I'm talking about?

[00:02:54] You wake up, it's dark, you go to work, it's dark, you come home, it's dark. Those are long days.

[00:03:01] I always think about the worst part of winter. I think about that in the summer. It's sunny at 9 p.m.

[00:03:06] I mean, the sun is still not sunny. The sun is that's a long time when it's dark at 4 p.m. or 4.30.

[00:03:14] Oh yeah. I have a question. It's very, very, very, very started. Please.

[00:03:20] Do you guys, this is a real question. Not a trivia thing that you guys always zap me on.

[00:03:24] I can eat something. Like where is there a place not the Arctic where it's like

[00:03:31] sun for a long period of time and it's dark. But is there a place where in the world where it's

[00:03:36] actually like the day is like the sun's up from 6 to like 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. all year round?

[00:03:44] Oh no, I don't think all year long definitely happens up north for that period of time but I don't

[00:03:51] yeah. Well maybe get the equator? No, no, the equator is like a consistent

[00:03:56] yeah. There's doesn't shift. No man. I don't know you're going to hit me with a geography bomb.

[00:04:03] It's rough, bro. Listen, so we were living in Texas for a couple of years. I just remember it being

[00:04:09] the same way as it was in Canada as it was in Europe. So I'm like oh my gosh this is everywhere

[00:04:14] this not many of like dark during the winter time like how many countries have you lived in ash?

[00:04:21] How many countries have you lived in? Just so Canada, Belgium and then United States I think you're

[00:04:27] familiar with this place of America. Yeah, well actually he said he was in Texas it's like its own

[00:04:34] country too. That is exactly four. Yeah. Oh man okay so ash do they have spring break in Canada?

[00:04:45] Is that a thing? Yes sir we got spring break yet. All right Kevin what's the spring break

[00:04:52] bit for the evening? Well I just wanted you know it's spring break time and was just wondering

[00:04:56] about your guys favorite spring break episodes maybe in college and I will go first again because

[00:05:02] I never really participated in spring break at like a traditional American college student. I was

[00:05:09] either too poor or didn't wasn't able to participate except for one year that's a partial

[00:05:18] participation. My first year of dental school, freshman year of dental school, my friend Steve

[00:05:25] who was living in Charlotte I think at the time anyway he came up we he came up to a Columbus

[00:05:35] and we drove to Myrtle Beach and spent the week at the beach just like two of us my I had

[00:05:43] family living there at the time too so we spent time with them. It wasn't crazy like you know girls

[00:05:48] and all that sort of stuff it was just more you know two guys at the beach being guys

[00:05:54] you know so not as crazy as some people might. How about you Zach?

[00:06:00] Uh frequently um frequently that was when my family did one of their ski trips. So that was

[00:06:08] that was something that we skied a lot over either spring or Easter break and sometimes they were

[00:06:13] the sometimes those were the same thing depending on how how Easter fell right we did a lot of

[00:06:18] skiing over those the only college trip I went on is my senior year of dental school most of the

[00:06:24] guys not everyone but a big crew of the guys did a Vegas thing and that was a really fun time. We

[00:06:31] had a good time uh tearing that that place up and uh that was that was a fun trip so that was

[00:06:37] that was my memorable college spring break trip but most of the time it was a it was a family uh

[00:06:42] it was a family ski trip more often than not. What about you Ash? What do you go ahead?

[00:06:46] Were there showgirls involved? You know what um I'm not gonna I'm not gonna talk about it.

[00:06:53] There might have been yes. Alright, excellent. Yeah how about you Ash? What's been your what's

[00:06:59] your spring break thing is either a kid or as an adult with your family? You know man like it's so

[00:07:04] lame like um I'm from a really small town in the middle of nowhere in Manitoba and I don't

[00:07:13] remember many kids like say for example in high middle school and high school I remember no one

[00:07:19] going anywhere for spring break and then yeah I think that just translated into I just I

[00:07:25] I had to I moved away for uh for college in the dental school and I just could see my parents so

[00:07:32] nothing like pretty quiet on this end. Maybe we'd have dog sled races I think I think that's

[00:07:39] what it was the annual dog sled race during spring break. That would be awesome. Well that sounds

[00:07:44] great. It was a whole are you a racer or just an era viewer? I'm more of a viewer when you're

[00:07:51] okay the Canadian thing to do. I would love that. That that's that sound I got two dogs and I have a sled.

[00:08:02] Well how many dogs is take to pull a sled actually because it's a real question. Yeah I don't know

[00:08:11] like I'm actually pulling your leg about the dogs sled thing too so I don't even know.

[00:08:25] Well I'll get back I'll Google it and get back to you. Yeah yeah you let us know. I was gonna say

[00:08:31] six to eight yeah. No that sounds good plausible. That sounds plausible. All right uh we briefly

[00:08:38] briefly mentioned this in last week's show if you didn't catch it um Ash runs a popular dentist

[00:08:45] uh popular dental YouTube channel all things dentistry but he's also um taken that and he released

[00:08:52] releases a lot of endodonic content. That was to that's probably over half the channel certainly not

[00:08:57] all of it. At least he's taken that and uh turned a lot of that into a course and he had a part one

[00:09:03] course uh called all things endo.ca excellent course highly recommended if you're a beginner

[00:09:10] but he is also released a just recently the in the last month or two the follow up course called

[00:09:16] all things retreats dot c a and Ash I guess unpack that what what is all things retreats not

[00:09:25] dot c a it's actually not just retreats I feel like there's a whole lot more so I guess unpack what

[00:09:29] that course is and who it might be for. Yeah right so um I really appreciate bringing it up

[00:09:36] and I'm very grateful to be here as usual and you know the first course so what's happened

[00:09:43] is that as I progressed through uh old age and seeing all these things all these things I do every day

[00:09:49] and I'm just like I'm very hesitant to so the upper end of things that you do that you know

[00:09:58] you're not supposed to do like no glide path uh that's the main main one of a few but taking on your

[00:10:06] files long so there's a couple things that are again like we talked last time nuanced that under

[00:10:12] the right conditions under controlled situations it's kind of like cave it's either I'm going to do this

[00:10:18] or we're not finishing the case so let's just do this and they've seemed to work so like I'll give

[00:10:24] you a great example oh hold on let me answer first question so the second course came about

[00:10:30] because I sat there and thought like there's all this stuff that I want people to learn that it

[00:10:34] may help them that 1% of time so they've already done the basic course it got like 500 endos

[00:10:40] they like they've got some endos stuff under their belt like you know what

[00:10:44] I'm not so much I want to do retreats and I don't know what else to name it so it's an advanced

[00:10:49] course but I didn't know what other like title to call the euro you are else so I'm like

[00:10:55] let's just go through retreats right now like all things advanced like I don't know like maybe

[00:10:59] I'll change it to that I'm not sure but the course encompasses like retreats is a is I'd say

[00:11:05] 50% chunk of it and then there's um other stuff so there's a lot of teaching moments in it where

[00:11:16] I like it because I have to sit down I'm asked to hate can you come help me like okay I sit down

[00:11:23] and I sit down and well off we go and we try to solve the problem right there so

[00:11:28] what that what that kind of shows is like these things that I'm teaching over the years actually

[00:11:35] I use every day and it's not like you know prepped and not planned and not like finesse through

[00:11:41] video editing it's like boat sit down and got to make it work and then so that's another I'd say

[00:11:48] 10 15% and then there's of all things are some apico stuff in there if you really want to get into

[00:11:53] it I highly recommend you do a hands-on apico thing but um but what I wanted to do is kind of

[00:12:00] give the imagination to people that it's like oh this is possible if I get some hands-on training

[00:12:06] I could probably use some of those tips and these little tips here like creating a 3d printed guide

[00:12:11] for that and all the kind of other nuanced stuff that it's not so much I don't want to put it on

[00:12:17] YouTube because I'm kind of like you know like eh maybe it's just for more of a select audience

[00:12:23] that's kind of really what it is so that's all of the stuff and what I was going to talk about was

[00:12:28] just quickly was you know like doing cases of a glide path so for example I had we talked about

[00:12:34] a ratics last time I had another one really crazy curve it was alleged about two weeks ago

[00:12:41] and the ratics was really interesting this extra distal lingual curve root on a mandible

[00:12:45] there first smaller and it went so it was on the distal lingual side of the tooth and it went not

[00:12:51] only did it go kind of uh lingually but it also or it went balkylly and it curved measly like

[00:12:57] it was really crazy so now I'm like okay I'm gonna take small hand files like you're taught

[00:13:01] small hand files little curves try to get that down there while fricking that just you know yeah

[00:13:06] at some point I'm just like okay health is we're doing that we're gonna this is it we're rocking

[00:13:10] on so you just take the uh take the small reciprocating file and lightly place a equal pressure replace

[00:13:18] the file about three or four times and then made it to the end so you know we got to be I've learned

[00:13:25] now you kind of have to be cautious with the people you're teaching because you don't want somebody

[00:13:28] to be like problem I can do that and they will watch the first second of the video

[00:13:33] on youtube they've watched it for say the first five seconds like all you can just take a file

[00:13:37] and go straight to life without any black path but you know they've used it in three other cases too

[00:13:43] so right you know you those little nuances I kind of want I want to share that but I also

[00:13:49] wanted to be part of a group that wants to learn that stuff that's it

[00:13:55] so long-winded answer

[00:13:58] thank you

[00:13:59] that's a good answer

[00:14:01] um so you know in addition to the information on retreats if even if you're someone who's not

[00:14:08] interested in retreats I thought some of the the sections that you could still gain a lot of value

[00:14:13] from you never wanted to attempt to retreat in your life were you know some of your sections on

[00:14:18] troubleshooting challenges and like perforation repairing okay you know because that applies to

[00:14:23] just someone doing just regular regular and or what to do during like flare ups um there was some

[00:14:30] of those just big good basic tips that that led to a course that even someone who's never going

[00:14:38] to attempt to retreat could get value from um what is there also you you went through an entire

[00:14:44] section on getting a max or more done and you know one visit and Kevin that's actually something

[00:14:50] that's one of the features of your course is trying to teach efficiency in one visit what's

[00:14:56] let's let's let's talk about that a little bit since both of you guys have taught from that kind

[00:15:00] of an angle ash what did I like give me like two or three tips that are going to lead to someone

[00:15:05] getting through an upper molar in in one run versus uh it taking a multi uh multi step process

[00:15:13] yeah such a great question so I would say to come I would say you need um I don't know 500 under

[00:15:26] your bell first so you're at this you're at the stage where you're not doing two like you can

[00:15:32] sit down like you can pre plan before to be like I choose to do this in two stages or I don't

[00:15:39] or I want to get it done in one you're at that stage you're career wherever you that you

[00:15:42] mean yeah remember that is versus like I have to do it into like I have no choice because it's three

[00:15:46] hours long this two but one appointment so that's the first kind of thing where it's like you

[00:15:51] have the confidence yeah it might take you three hours to get the single one stage done and I don't

[00:15:56] know if that's a the return on investment on that is I think slowly sinking as you hit past our

[00:16:03] hour one so that's the first one the second one is uh wide open pole chamber

[00:16:09] so case selection in other words 100% and then you know in case selection I'll just add the last

[00:16:15] one is patient selection where they're they're uh they can ease they can get numbed and they're willing

[00:16:22] to you know tough it out for that hour hour and a half program they're about to participate in

[00:16:31] of that yeah absolutely what about you Kevin where do you where do you where do some of you're like

[00:16:41] top tips on something like that well I'm gonna echo what Ash said case selection is

[00:16:46] is number one on that there's like teaching the course there's not every endo you can do an

[00:16:51] undone crown in the same visit that's you know that's not possible but for the ones that you can

[00:16:58] um the strategy would be to know what you're getting into ahead of time with the combiim using that

[00:17:03] as your GPS and then you know in my case also leveraging the uh seric to help you do the crown

[00:17:12] and really the overall strategy would be to prep the crown first and then start your access for

[00:17:19] the for the rukin al so kind of doing things backwards but also echoing what Ash said

[00:17:26] your your patient is in for I like the way you set it an hour and a half program or a two-hour

[00:17:32] program yeah in which you know there's gonna be a lot of stuff done but also in the back of my mind

[00:17:39] I may have to take a fork in the road here and you know this may end up being into the two visit

[00:17:45] rukin al and crown or um you know if all the stars are aligned then we can get it done in one visit

[00:17:52] that's really good yeah I'm gonna add on go ahead that's amazing you can prank that out like

[00:17:59] that just to be able to bang out a crown and an endo actually first muller in one city but

[00:18:08] that is a lot of what what's happening there though is you know just like um and athlete

[00:18:15] like you have to have a game plan you have to like all those visualize what you're doing

[00:18:20] you know the steps you're gonna take um but the but the biggest thing is getting the crown out of

[00:18:26] the way first have you so sure you might that's one more question yeah please keep

[00:18:33] sorry I know you keep cutting off Zach so I was watching you're fine I was I don't know why I came

[00:18:39] up I rarely watch YouTube dentistry stuff but yeah like yeah never and this thing comes up from

[00:18:44] glycwell I can't really do you guys name it's really nice guy and he's the dentist I think he

[00:18:51] oh I don't know if he owns it or manages it but uh he's and I've seen this before is using the

[00:18:55] round burr technique yeah just set the margin first to tola my to tola yeah all right yeah

[00:19:01] yeah yeah I just tried it a week ago I'm like not bad what do you guys use that or what

[00:19:09] Zach is a big mic to tola fans so let or yeah let's take that away Zach

[00:19:14] all right that that was one of the that video his his reverse crown print video kind of changed my

[00:19:20] that the ash those use those before YouTube he glide while it produced those on a DVD and hand

[00:19:28] them out for free at major trade shows like Chicago midwinter or something like that and that was

[00:19:34] like my first foray into like video video CE like that hit him and like Gordon Christians and stuff

[00:19:42] and uh you know he was like if YouTube had been a platform then he would have been one of the

[00:19:50] earlier early adopters on something like that for sure really um but that those a lot of those

[00:19:55] videos kind of changed my change my life on that but you know steering it back over into into

[00:20:01] the endodontic realm since that's that's you know what we're here to talk about um I would say

[00:20:07] that ash is spot on the case selections huge on that I'll win when the decide that kind of stuff

[00:20:13] but you know and I don't know what your days look like ash but the other thing that has to happen is

[00:20:18] that you have to have for endo almost more than any other thing you gotta have some dedicated time

[00:20:25] to do that and if you check in hygienist you almost have to like plan those hygiene checks

[00:20:29] like you know check one early and then know that you're gonna have like yeah you're gonna be able

[00:20:35] to like sit and really work for like you know an hour and a half or something like that to get

[00:20:39] that done because nothing words worse than having to bebop up and down and have to take a 10-minute

[00:20:44] break here there that sucks too so it I think it depends on how you practice and what kind of

[00:20:49] practice setting you're in too I think that's a good fact huge factor I mean uh I think it'd be tough to

[00:20:57] um to manage a lot of things at the same time especially when you're trying to bang out a maxi

[00:21:03] molar oh my god yeah there's so many things there are I think it's it's a complex procedure

[00:21:13] you know what I've learned uh I don't think I've actually written this but uh one of the things that

[00:21:18] comes to my mind is pre-planning so I think what one of the things I've learned from teaching

[00:21:23] is that dental I don't know if it's a marketing thing kind of reminds me I'm gonna get it to but

[00:21:29] if it's a dental marketing thing I think it is is teaching like so let's go with the wave and gold

[00:21:35] platform teaching to stay at the the first file like one file can do all and what I've learned is that

[00:21:44] that's I think the three of us will agree it's not that way yeah that's but when you don't know

[00:21:50] what you don't know that is what you do and what I've learned is that um in terms of

[00:21:57] efficiency is already pre-planning where you're going to now that's not the right answer but I can

[00:22:03] tell you in terms of efficiency and predictability it's like going to a certain size minimum all the

[00:22:09] time and it minimizes the amount of time problems I have post-treatment like say for example 90%

[00:22:18] of canals are getting a 35 was 6 medium and so we already have the gotter purchase points out

[00:22:25] I already have the pay-per-points out and then I'll go to a large I've almost actually just switched

[00:22:31] to go to a large for like a 45 or 5 for all Caldwell and Disselkin I was not all the time but

[00:22:37] it's just like let's just do it and then having that already selected so my dentist is not going

[00:22:44] through the drawers looking for the last container of gotter purchase points that are very almost

[00:22:50] empty it's like they're already ready to go so I think that plays another part in terms of

[00:22:54] efficiency and oh yeah do the fiddle dontics as I've done yes all right the fiddle dontics

[00:23:03] yeah that's a that's a time killer it's an efficiency killer um and I think ashes right pre-planning

[00:23:12] the whole thing in terms of file sizes and subsequent gotter purchase sizes is really key and

[00:23:19] just having a very efficient setup so you can just be sure well and an assistant that knows where

[00:23:26] stuff is you know okay is a there's a there's a lot of stuff it takes a lot of stuff to get more

[00:23:33] sold than just about another procedure right isn't it I mean I don't know what I get to know

[00:23:37] what an implant set up is like but it feels like there's a whole lot for an implant but um you

[00:23:42] know I'll just plug the endopilot for having the apex locator and uh motor and everything all together

[00:23:47] that's part of the efficiency of that system from comment but that's our shameless point.

[00:23:54] Endopilot endopilot's efficient but it's also not like one of those systems that promises

[00:23:58] you're gonna get done in three files or something no it is like well actually I also to ashes point

[00:24:04] they do say that but that's not that's not realistic for most most teeth. I hate see I hate

[00:24:11] the marketing on stuff like that old one that makes you think that like it's gonna be like oh

[00:24:17] you're just it's gonna be three files and you're just done man like that's it's not about you

[00:24:21] it's not even about the filing like you don't care what file system you use they'll work right if

[00:24:26] you're not a user I mean I shouldn't say all of them but like I bet the vast as you probably

[00:24:31] use a bunch of file systems and I bet you can make all of them work yeah I mean I yeah you know

[00:24:38] that you agree with what you're saying it's not about the vehicle um well sometimes it is actually

[00:24:45] my mini van if I miss my mini van way easier to carry the kids around but uh in terms of

[00:24:51] files it's uh it's uh it's chemomechanical shaping in any form that you want to carry it out just

[00:24:59] making sure you got bleach and not saline you need to kill back to your final tissue and then

[00:25:06] whatever if you want to do hand file we'll have file we all I I bet you we all did dental school

[00:25:12] with hand files 100% yeah step back technique dr. Christie I didn't know what I was doing

[00:25:19] oh my gosh flame did you boys use a flame oh yeah oh yeah yep yeah no like the sorry uh

[00:25:27] yeah you're talking about torch torch torch oh yeah yeah yeah sure you did that yeah

[00:25:33] yeah having done that for a long time thankfully thankfully they came up with something better

[00:25:40] for that for sure oh my gosh yeah I almost burned down we're not quite burned down but I caught a

[00:25:45] whole bunch of uh on an aside using torches and I can't remember for some reason dental school I was

[00:25:52] um we went to a geriatric home I don't know what the right name is

[00:25:56] and uh for some reason I was like doing something with a denture in wax and I'll never forget like

[00:26:02] I remember being in denture class so there's second year and thinking how did I know that

[00:26:07] be using so much wax in dental school I probably would not be here like it was just a phenomenal

[00:26:12] amount of wax that we use at the same thought yeah you know who do who do it would be used in wax

[00:26:20] uh and then I had the torch going so fast forward into like third year I was in dental school we're

[00:26:26] in a geriatric home I think we all took turns going through there so I was continuing the cycle of

[00:26:30] finishing this set of dentures for this person I think that's what it was and I put the torch

[00:26:35] and turned it towards the wall it gives one of the propane butane torches and the whole bunch of

[00:26:41] blocks as a glove started on fire and I'm just thinking like oh like well thank goodness we don't

[00:26:48] use torches anymore than when day to day it's electric usually now yeah that's that was just

[00:26:54] that's a disaster when you happen right over and over Kevin um

[00:27:01] you're the you're the most seasoned practitioner here what's been like best

[00:27:08] upgrade of a venedonic tool that's uh that's uh the you've seen come through

[00:27:16] well you know talk about in my course like Assa had starting with hand files like doing a whole

[00:27:23] molar with hand files yeah like if we still had to do that there's no way so I would say that

[00:27:29] you know the invention of the rotary file but I have this vivid memory of dental school eating lunch

[00:27:34] in the cafeteria and there was some dental journal laying on the counter and we were kind of

[00:27:40] thumbing through it neat in our lunch and there was an advertisement for some sort of endadonic

[00:27:46] rotary file this must have been like 1987 or 1988 and one of the endadonic residents who we were

[00:27:52] like friends with walk by stop and looked at what we were looking at and said that'll never work

[00:28:01] and so that kind of like in my brain I'm like well this guy knows way more about endo than I do

[00:28:07] so that'll never work and so fast forward to when they became more mainstream I still have that

[00:28:14] mainstream that I had that in my head that this will never work but obviously they do work

[00:28:19] and you know like a lot of things you had to work out the kinks first or literally break a couple

[00:28:25] files off but yeah rotary files for sure see see if to me it's when they started heating them

[00:28:31] yeah that I actually think that that made more of a difference to me than the file itself I

[00:28:39] felt like when they started heating them like all of a sudden knock on wood the the breakages

[00:28:47] are just so far down I don't know that's but I mean I could also say that the combing for diagnostics

[00:28:53] might be yeah I mean my second toy is high up on that list too would be the the combing for sure

[00:28:59] but I just I had such a vivid memory of wet the motor of our own magazine they're not existing

[00:29:07] and then they did exist you know what about for you Ash what's what's what's been the

[00:29:13] what's been the biggest change here for you in your practicing career because I feel like you and

[00:29:16] I are about the same a career length yeah I think we are so it was probably 2015 and

[00:29:23] and I'm sitting we're teaching the time for our clinical and of course that we taught I taught on

[00:29:32] and we're using protapernex and in residency I remember so I'll never forget in residency I went from

[00:29:45] what did they they were using profiles so my first got in the first year is a junior

[00:29:49] two profiles like okay whatever and then then the second year they're like oh you can use protaper

[00:29:55] and I've never I'd never used protable before and but it was it was like the oh we've graduated to

[00:30:01] the the superior of the two like okay well for it those things are stiff as a board and yeah I hated them

[00:30:10] so I'll never I almost was like I want to go back to the old profile because it's just kind

[00:30:17] of playing the walls it wasn't it wasn't a it was stiff but not a stiff so fast forward so that's

[00:30:22] I don't know what year 2010 2011 and then I'm sitting there teaching with protapernex and it's

[00:30:31] still like this M.Y. It's a little bit heated but it's still stiff and I remember the rep coming

[00:30:35] so we're teaching students on this file blah blah blah whatever and I remember the rep coming

[00:30:39] and bringing wave of gold and I've always been I've always been interested in reciprocation I know

[00:30:45] I don't know I have no idea what and for some mechanical reason I actually thought reciprocation

[00:30:51] was actually the fog going up and down like I don't know why like that was there was a file that

[00:30:59] came out of Israel called the SAF and I remember that yeah I think I think somebody bought it to kill

[00:31:06] it yeah I think this will happen so some dump of company purchased it probably the one of the

[00:31:15] large ones and then just put it to bed so I haven't seen it at all I was waiting to see that

[00:31:20] so the rep brings in women gold that have been on the market yet there's reciprocation like oh my

[00:31:26] God reciprocation is not up and down it's like back and forth and he left the motor so for the course

[00:31:34] out here for a couple weeks we had them and I remember taking it to an I'll never forget it was like

[00:31:38] seven o'clock in the night I'm sitting there with this extracted pre-molar my hand I'm like you

[00:31:42] know what let's give this a shot and I went I start to finish like no glide path nothing a whole

[00:31:49] bunch of extracted teeth just the same file and I'm like this is nuts like you'd never do this

[00:31:59] with a rotary file or you can but my confidence is way higher for some reason with this now

[00:32:07] obviously that's a feeling it's probably incorrect but I that was kind of the moment where I was like

[00:32:12] you know what so I'll actually add two so that one that moment there I was just like wow I have

[00:32:20] life has changed and the second one was Allianess say bring I root so he I can't he told me

[00:32:31] the story I root was started policy I'm gonna see it was starting in Vancouver by some

[00:32:36] chemist guy and I actually got on the phone with him one day just to talk to him just for

[00:32:42] entertainment sake just to see kind of the path of how this evolved the brass rigged about the

[00:32:48] right side that so it was Allianess say started out talking about single cone with that buster

[00:32:56] amicess either those two things have changed revolutionize what I do because there's no more

[00:33:04] an a thermal plastic freaking yeah pull your cone out five times it doesn't go down like

[00:33:09] yeah actually headaches so those two things actually gave me the confidence to go take my channel

[00:33:19] to go to end oh yeah those two things and what I like about it what the reason why I like

[00:33:25] what I'm doing is because those are two different companies that would never have those combined on

[00:33:32] their same like barking thing right so you up rasser and then you go um that's why so I'm like oh

[00:33:41] I love it's pretty predictable so that's excellent very cool yeah very cool all right uh Kevin

[00:33:50] you need final final thoughts on uh on anything anything endo get lots of reps oh yeah get the reps

[00:34:00] just like we talked about extractor teeth do them watch that video of ashes on the

[00:34:05] 19th and alligeant yep that that came up the other day I don't know why and I thought of you

[00:34:11] Zach it just popped out yeah oh and I remember the moment where I was doing it too uh just like

[00:34:17] it was totally nonchalant just like here do this there's that yeah it's it's it's a simple thing

[00:34:23] but I'd never thought of it I didn't even know that alligeant could uh would would would substitute

[00:34:28] as a pdl like I said blew my mind blew my mind ash thank you man for taking the time out of your

[00:34:34] busy schedule busy family life busy practice like we talked to us we appreciate it a lot um

[00:34:41] and uh if you are listening and want to hear more check out all things retreats.ca

[00:34:48] gotta remember the dot ca part that's right it's canada big canada canada all the way that's right

[00:34:56] well thank you so much for your time I'm super grateful yeah you're the man uh if you

[00:35:01] haven't checked out if you haven't checked out the very clinical facebook page check it out ashes

[00:35:06] on there um when we post the episode we'll tag him in it and so if you've got any any other questions

[00:35:11] check it out um I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised with the cost of his online course it

[00:35:17] is of tremendous value a tremendous value and more than I should have been meant to mention this

[00:35:24] earlier one of the coolest parts about his both of his courses is that he's got a facebook group

[00:35:31] setup for those with a very very active chat and so it's like when you're get when you buy one

[00:35:36] of his courses or in his you know in his network you've kind of almost got ashes like a as a personal

[00:35:42] mentor because he's always commenting on his um on all the questions in his groups really cool what

[00:35:48] you do at that ash really really cool I love being a part of it so I like appreciate

[00:35:51] mention thank you yep thank you for what you do all right guys thank you for listening and we

[00:35:56] will see you next Tuesday bye bye