Very Clinical: Becoming Complete with Dr. Frank Clayton

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[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to The Very Clinical Podcast.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: In about the time it takes to do an MO on three, we will entertain and amaze you with tips and tricks

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: on regular daily dentistry.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's Kevin and Zach.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What is up, very clinical listeners, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Zach Miners coming to you from Kansas City with me as always by trusty coho,

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Kevin, hair fryer, Kevin what's happened in the Cleveland.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Zach, if I told you you had to move tomorrow, what city would you move to?

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Atlanta.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course you would.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course you would.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the new home of The Very Clinical Podcast.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes it is.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Our week in a row, Dr. Frank Clayton from Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back Frank.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Pleasure to be back on the three times.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Time to grow.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we better.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a three peak.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a pretty good, that's a pretty good thing.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that's right.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's right.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate it.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, love it.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin, what's the bit for this evening before we get into our heavy topic?

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I've prepared some Atlanta trivia for you Zach and we'll see if Frank can answer.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the first name?

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This is for Zach.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: First name of Atlanta and I will accept two answers.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Terminus.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh you knew it.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the other one?

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Frank, you don't know.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I go?

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Was it Martha'sville?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes it is.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Name it under the governor's daughter.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a tag team.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Big time nepotism happening there.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That is something I heard in a sports program one time.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just, it really caught me out guard.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like what?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Good memory.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Something different?

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Good memory.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Just think about different songs and stuff that would be different in Terminus.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you rhyme with Terminus?

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Terminus were the player's play.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going down to Martha'sville.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Eat a lot of peaches.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Going down to Martha'sville.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all right.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was question number one.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Question number two is what is depicted on the Atlanta City seal?

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: A peach.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not true.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead Frank.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That would be a Phoenix bird rising out of the ashes.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it would.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Very good.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He's been around his own city.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I'm at Cleveland City seal because it brown.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little more, right?

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Sherman Burness and Rising from the ashes.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Terminus was the name because this is where railways end.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It was like a stopping point for many.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a railway analogy.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So they called it terminus.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And Martha was there at the terminus for all the railroad workers.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see, it all comes together.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: There it is.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Love it when a plane comes together.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I still love it.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, Frank, you've changed your mind two weeks in a row.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you still interested in changing your mind?

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm changing.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to take a very deep, deep thought.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But we don't have that because we don't have anybody.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: What are some of the main things, Frank?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You've changed your mind on just in life as you, you know,

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: as you're in your second half of life.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was thinking about this.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The biggest thing I changed my mind on was having a third child.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, interesting.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I did not make that choice.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm interested.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I look back at it and when you're in the middle of two

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: children or one child and your wife says, I don't feel complete yet.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt complete with child number one.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't, it was fine.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Child number two, Shirley, it's one of those things where if you're with a

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: partner and that partner tells you that that's what they need in that

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: segment of their life to feel complete.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: In hindsight, this has been 20 years ago.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I trusted her to go, okay, yeah.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's given take throughout these relationships where I'd said I

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: don't feel complete without X, Y or Z.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was probably one of the best things I did.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: What happens on that third child seven, six years later than the first two?

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You're obviously aged.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Your outlook is different because you're a different physician in life

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: than you were with the first two, at least I was.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So this child, the third child is probably the most well adjusted of the three.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You were probably more relaxed.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: First, sure.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you think about that and anybody listening, you think about

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that, well, you know, that one decision, the life change that it

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: made, the outcome for him, the outcome for us, we were a little

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: more settled financially.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, Kevin, you're just, you're a little more, I guess, as a parent,

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you're like, yeah, whatever.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You're not wound up.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Eat the shit off the floor.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't care with the third child and I really didn't eat that.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll discover that that doesn't taste good or it's poisonous.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Fine.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: In hindsight, then I went, why didn't I do this with the first two

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: children?

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So things in life that I make decisions like that on, I look back

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and go, hi, what made me make that?

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was a trustee of my wife.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I want, you know, it was a relationship thing.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that come along with practices.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Will it come along with employees?

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is, you kind of learn from the first couple go rounds.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: This would pertain to a relationship, whether it's a marriage or, you

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: know, you hire a front desk, whatever it is.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And then that next time you kind of look at it a little bit

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: different from lessons learned from friends along the way.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was a big thing in my life where I'm like, shit.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: At the time of thinking, I don't need another mouth to feed.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard enough getting my, you know, getting my finances

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: in order.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: What if I suck as a dad?

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Like all these things come to your head when in reality,

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not as big into play as you think it is.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: There's never a perfect time.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the stars are not going to ever be aligned like that.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So the outlook of like, yeah, things will be fine.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And they have been.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So that little moment in my life of having him changed us.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you know, my wife then realized, well,

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: if he really loves me, he trusts, you know, and I need

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: to, I want this third child.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, yep.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And how old were you guys for child number three?

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I was 37.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Donna was 36.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We had had two prior, three boys.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: The two prior were one and second year of dental school

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and one in third year.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So this one came along, you know, the first two

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: will whirlwind.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So this one came along after I started my practice

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and after, you know, some groundwork was laid for the other two.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was a tired 37 year old.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Frank, you didn't start practicing until your low

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and mid 30s?

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that your emergency?

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 99.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was 32 when I first started practicing.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I studied other things before dental or pre-dental

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and I worked in corporate.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You were in another company for a while.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And what's that?

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Your yoga studio.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you got the flyer.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So you saw it.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So you were one of those guys Frank Delscolos,

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_03]: married with kids.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't guess that.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That guy two out of 10 stars would not recommend that.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do that.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I saw those guys, you know, as I was like, you know,

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: in my like, as I was like in my low 20s and I was like,

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: God, that seems awful.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: This is for me, you know.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, I mean, honestly, the people that I saw in school

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: with that were called Mormons.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a very different structure.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Even Donna and her grad school, I'm like, how are they,

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: she went to grad school before I went to dental school.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how are they having three kids?

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: She goes, Oh, this is the Mormon contingent that have financial

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and family support.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They have a structure and it was very different than us.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We had no structure, almost caused divorce several times.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I would never recommend that.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So any listeners that that is not something I would ever

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: recommend.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You had great.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it was not.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to sugar coat it, but it wasn't.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That's honest.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Right on.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I did.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not make the decision to have that, that third one,

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: but I was also the age you were when I had my second one

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_03]: because I just started, I started everything a little bit

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: later behind the ball.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So how much total do you have to have two boys?

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm two boys, but I had them.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I had both of them in my, you know, mid 30s.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get married until I was over 30 and then I waited

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: around for a little bit too long, really.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, but no, so I couldn't envision having another kid,

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: but I was like 39 or 40.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I just couldn't see it.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't do it.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But right on.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that you did.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't do it.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wouldn't do it, but happened.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Third child is fine.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: No, so.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You got anything else?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Frank, that's a big one.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: You got another one in the chamber of life.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, of regrets or decisions.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Either way, things you say to your mind, John.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Hard one.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, honestly, this, the second best was when I changed

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: my mind, my father-in-law's an ENT.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to shadow him and I said, I'm going to be an,

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be an MD because I spent some time at the hospital.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: All, all those stuff.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: The best thing I ever changed my mind on, he suggested,

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and I owe him everything for this.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, you know, you love business.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You love science.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, why don't you think about dentistry?

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't want him because you could do your small

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: business thing and you can do this and you're not holding

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: somebody's heart in your hand.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a tooth.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and I think you'd be really good at it.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no way, no way.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Change of my mind.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It was the absolute best thing ever that I took my mind off

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that tract of going and doing a residency, any of that.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And going into dentistry.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That was the, uh, that's probably the, the second

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: biggest thing that impacted my life.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So, see, you know, that's, um, that was interesting

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_03]: because there's like, there's so much, my sisters are

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: both, um, are both MDs.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, um, is interesting listening to talking to them

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and some of their friends and whatnot in terms of the,

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: there's some of them that are like, oh man, I wish I had control

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: over my professional life.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you do.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You're, you, you know, kind of own your, I mean,

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: my dad owns the business, but I've still had a decent

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: amount of control, especially recently over my professional

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: life and they, they're not.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: They, they have none.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But then on the other side of the coin, it's like, well, yeah,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: well you don't have to hire and fire and run these tax forms

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and market and do all this.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's, it's just an interest in there's

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: just two sides to that coin and drastically different.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't trade it.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you guys?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I would not, but Zach, did you ever consider it?

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, very clinical listeners.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready to add implants to your practice,

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: feeling overwhelmed by the procedure?

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Not sure where to get training.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have an answer for you.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Join our very own Dr. Kevin Fryer in beautiful

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Raleigh, North Carolina this November 4th through 8th

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: for a week of didactic and hands-on training

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: for dental implants that will get you ready

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to start placing them on your own patients

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[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't consider it.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't consider it.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to work with my dad

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and so I didn't consider it.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not even 100% sure I would have gotten in

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: until I don't know if there would have been

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: an option but I wasn't thinking about it.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Dad had always talked up to me the benefits

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: of having control that you don't have

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_03]: in the majority.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Now there are some MD jobs that have a little

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: bit of ownership of their job and a little

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_03]: bit of control, but the majority of them do not.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That was always his thing.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't value how he was always home

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: at dinner by 6 o'clock in the evening.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you, Kevin?

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly I wanted to be a dentist since elementary

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: school.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought it was a cool job not really

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: knowing anything about it.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: If there was ever that thought it was

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: fleeting but I was pretty determined to

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: make this happen and then after I had my

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_02]: own practice there was a period of time in

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the late 90s, maybe early 2000s where for

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever reason we attracted a bunch of

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: residents from the local hospital, medical

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: residents.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I had already been through dental school and

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: had my practice for several years and just

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: listening to their stories and their

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: struggles and some of the attending doctors

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that we would see, I was so glad I could

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: just like Zach said I could be done at 5 o'clock,

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: be owned by 530 and just be done.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was never a serious consideration at all.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think they used to parallel more each other

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe in the 70s, 80s and then medicine

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: lost its way.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine this so if you added DSO and you

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: built your practice and then that DSO just

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: inserted whoever they wanted.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: To me that's kind of like physicians, if

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you're a great surgeon and you have this

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: well guess what?

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to hire an assistant.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Really none of your input and that's

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the way that it works.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought well that's just pure

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: hell for me.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So hearing you guys talk about that's the

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: control part where at least we can still

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: say look I want this way, I would love it

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: this way, you can do it and yeah there are

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: boundaries but for the most part we

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: haven't say so.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Physicians.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember vividly one of these

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: attendings saying something to the effect

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: of you're lucky you own your own business

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and so if we just parse that statement

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel lucky I own my own business

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: but where he was coming at it from was

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: everything that you were saying right

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that all these external pressures and

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: things that were out of this control

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and that is a frustration for him but

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: as business owners we have a different

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: set of frustrations that we've all

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: had to deal with throughout our careers.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I personally said this before I don't

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: think I could ever have a boss so you

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: know if it worked for me but yes to that

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: guy from 25 years ago I do own my own

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: business I'm happy that I do but it's

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: not all a bed of roses like he may have

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: thought it in the moment just you know

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: just speaking.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I still wouldn't I still wouldn't trade.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't either.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't either because I mean there's

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of things about running a practice

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that I detest and that are stressful

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but not as stressful as when my sisters

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: talk about HR meetings and run-ins

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: with employees that you know they would

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_03]: never like people on their team

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_03]: nursing or auxiliaries that they would

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: just they don't want anything to do with

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and they think are horrible and you know

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: all these sensitivity training things

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and all the corporate America stuff

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't last a day in corporate

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: America.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a small business dude or maybe

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I've just been ingrained that way I

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: don't know.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I agree with that.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah there's a reason and I can tell

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you from selling to this day so we

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: talked last week about this.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The few decisions which really don't

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: have an impact on me great me because

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I've made a hundred percent live and

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: die by the decisions I've made.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Just small ones even if they mention

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: something I take that as not an insult

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: to my business skills or my decisions

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's like this reaffirmed why

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I went into dentistry 25 years ago

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: because just that little bit.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah that's what I'm saying I could

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: never have a boss I would be in jail

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: or something.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah well I would anybody listening

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: if you're considering selling even

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: if you sold to an individual and

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: this is another thing that I didn't

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: mention last if you're transitioning

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to hand off to an

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: individual or DSO you're going to be

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: an employee at some point.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot easier knowing you're on

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: your way out then back your head up

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 15 20 years of that employee is

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely painful to sit there and

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: go I've got 20 more years of this.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care what physicians make I

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: really don't that doesn't buy the

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: happiness and the grief and the

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: counseling I would need had I gone

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: through all that school to go through

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the shit that they go through so no

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: regrets at all but I think we're all

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: on the same page and a lot of your

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: listeners and cohorts feel the same

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it's got its faults but I think

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: at some point we're all like oh my god

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: did I make the right decision and

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that may fluctuate from day to day

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but compared to that there's no

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: like we definitely made the right

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: decision.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: 100%

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You think about the times where

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you started to question yourself

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_03]: though yeah it's when days went bad

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_03]: 2008 sure you didn't feel great about

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: being a business owner in 2008 you know

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: COVID would COVID struck down and

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: closed us up I didn't feel great

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: well for at least a few weeks now

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: so there was some you know that's

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_03]: the kinds of things that people who

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_03]: have a job or a hospital or something

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03]: that's someone else's problem you know

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: right and it was our problem it was

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: us sitting up at night before PPP going

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_01]: how the hell am I gonna make this

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: happen yeah but the perseverance that

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you get from it and the skills as a

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: business person when you come out of

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that stuff I don't know about you guys

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: or any of your listeners but I felt

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: like past COVID you can throw any

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: shit at me and if we survived that

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and you kept the everything afloat

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: bring on anything else yeah I

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: 100% with you I mean there there

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: were definitely worse side effects

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: of that here personally but we made it

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we did it we we there was no

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: like I would guarantee that the

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: three of us did it a whole different

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: way sure we had to navigate that on

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: our own but there was no one at the

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: top saying you must do X Y and Z we

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you know we did it and I agree with

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Frank it made it if if you could have

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: told me that in May 28th of 2024 we'd

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: be talking about this and everything

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: would be fine great but I think part

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: of all of life is approaching some of

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: these struggles and then overcoming

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: them yeah that don't rise a lot of

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: personal growth that's it and you

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: can't what we went through any business

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: owner went through you cannot get it C

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_01]: E you can't get from no or no standing

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: up front telling you you have to live

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and have to have your employees go

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: what the hell do we do you have to sit

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: on that zoom call first time I've

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: never done a zoom before I'm doing

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: zoom meetings with my employees but I

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: have no idea what we're going to do

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: tomorrow I you guys are going to get

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: paid I told my wife I said we're

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: going to dip into savings because this

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: group has brought me here this is

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: what we're going to do

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah meanwhile my friends were

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: like fuck it I got three three full

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: weeks of pay I'm going to drink every

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: night I've got nothing to worry about

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'd still trade you for that

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: heartache we went through and your

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: employees I don't mind I guarantee

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: when we pulled out of this and

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: your employees saw what you guys

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: did they went that's the boat that

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm rowing for because anybody else

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: could have just folded got screw it

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: y'all are done fire you and some did

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: that's fine if that's your manager

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: style but again T if you saved one of

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: your employees because all six of mine

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: were still with me they're like yeah

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that dude went to bat for me when

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: times got shitty and he could have

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: just folded said zero and then

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: re quote rehired me with no

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: seniority and played games no you

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: know you you did that and they saw it

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: as loyalty and that's what you know

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the right thing to do yeah

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah I was at work out for us I

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: definitely worked out there were

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: many conversations where I was like

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm way more worried about them than

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: us and you know that I think that

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: reflecting on that time now like

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: so much time has passed and not

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone's still with me because

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: just you know life happens but they

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: only knew how many how many nights

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: sleepless nights worrying about them

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_02]: yes sure sure right yeah absolutely

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely if any of your listeners

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: especially younger people if you

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: think you're doing this alone you're

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: about 40% right your staff and you

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: know the ones deep in your art

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: which will go take an arrow for you

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: or a bullet those employees if you

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_01]: treat them right and I'm speaking

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: from 25 years of doing it and I'm on

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: the tail end of it and Kevin you know

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: those employees will do anything they

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: can and that's that's who makes it

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: happen you train them right you give

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: them autonomy you show that you really

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: care you're on as much autopilot as

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: a business owner could be on towards

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the end when they're like this dude

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: got my back I'll take care of him

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: at any cost they reject job offers

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember a meeting we had with my

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: top three people that I mean I'll

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: probably get emotional right now

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about it but like there was

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: this like I know you have my back

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and yeah I know it was just one of

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: those times that I often reflect on

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: because after we came back I felt

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like that hour that we sat in a

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: room and talked the rest of

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: everything through was make or break

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: for the rest of everything and yes

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it stood by me yeah that's awesome

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: it that is true it's so true

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: so I attribute that when you get

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: down in the hole from covid you see

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: who's got your back employee wise they

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: see you as their back and then

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like what the hell else could we

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: get we went through chemotherapy

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: with one who almost died for me

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: everything that life throws at you

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you're in together with your employees

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm they'll write it out and

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that's how to me I don't know that's

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: the way I ran it yeah and and smart

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03]: way of doing it because long-term

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: people do make your life a whole

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: lot easier oh yeah very well sure

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_03]: mm-hmm or sure right thank you for

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_03]: joining us three great set early

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be guys enjoy listening to the

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Frank wax poetic for for a few

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: weeks so yeah have any final thoughts

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: well if any of our lives listeners

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: ever want to go to Atlanta it's in the

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: state of Georgia which is in the

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: southern part of the United States and

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always needs are true I'd high I'd

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: highly met my term and it's you want to

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: go to us Martha'sville terminus hit up

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Frank he'll show you around for a good

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: time y'all come on down and get a

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: biscuit to Martha'sville I'll take

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: care of you I don't love it they

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: if you guys haven't checked out the

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: very clinical Facebook page check it out

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin still wasn't charging right which

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03]: is great and we're gonna continue this

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_03]: series I we hope you guys are gonna

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_03]: enjoy this series like you've enjoyed

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: our five question series were you're

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: gonna get a lot of it coming up with

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: all spirit of us all over the long

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: with the mid-career clinicians I'll

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_03]: talk about what they've changed their

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: mind on hope we don't change your

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: mind about subscribing to this podcast

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: you do not have one nice all right

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you guys for listening and we

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: will see you next Tuesday

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: thanks Jets thanks so much