Very Clinical: Dr. Sully Sullivan on Replacing Yourself

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[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00] Welcome to the Very Clinical Podcast. In about the time it takes to do an M.O. on three, we will entertain and amaze you with tips and tricks on regular daily dentistry. Here's Kevin and Zach.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02] What is up, Very Clinical listeners? And welcome back to yet another episode of the Very Clinical Podcast. I'm Zach Miners coming to you from Kansas City, Missouri. With me as always, my trusty co-host, Dr. Kevin Hare Fryer. Kevin, what's up? How's it going, Zach?

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_03] I'm awesome. How are you? I guess the summer's over. Labor Day's been done. And we never got a chance to talk about baseball. No, we didn't. But we're going to talk about football.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02] In like 20 seconds, did you like the new baseball rules?

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03] All right, really quick. Just one quick hit. I thought I would hate it. But when I went to an Indians game, Slash Guardians.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02] Yes.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_03] I enjoyed the pitch clock more than I thought I would.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_02] It was amazing.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_03] I was still a little, there's a part of me that's not so keen on the lack of the shift, but I understand it. And so all in all, I give it a B+.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_02] A++ MLB, thank you for saving the game. Sue, that's my review. That's my review on the new rules. Thank you.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03] At some point, we need to talk about the shift and all that sort of stuff. Okay. But it makes more offense.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01] If they could have a shot clock for my four-year-old T-ball league, that would be A++ as well.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02] Kids baseball, man. That's a whole conversation.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I coached for eight, 10, 12 years. I love every aspect of it. I'd go back in a heartbeat. But yeah, I get it. Welcome back. Sully Sullivan from Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, glad to be back. Thanks for having me back. And thanks for indulging us in our little baseball conversation there. So we're running up on football season and we wrongly assumed that Sully would be a Titans fan.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_03] The Titans stadium can't be that far from your office, right? No, it's only like 10 minutes. Yeah.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. So let's unpack this. You say you're a Steelers fan. How did that happen?

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01] I'm a Titan season ticket holder, supporter, but I am a Steelers fan. Yeah. Yeah. This is – okay. All right. Keep going. It's complicated. Look, when you're growing up in middle school in the middle of Tennessee, there were no – we didn't have an NFL team. You had the Falcons. Oh, that's right.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02] What year did Titans come? 99?

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01] 98, 99. Yeah, somewhere in there. Okay. Okay. Growing up, I was Cordell Stewart, Jerome Bettis. Yeah. Okay. The Black and Gold, Bill Cowher. I mean, tough to argue with all that. Okay. Ground and pound, man. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to think about that. All the things that make Kevin – all the things that make Kevin cringe, basically. Yeah. That's what the names I just told him. Well, it goes all the way back to the 70s. Yeah.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_03] The Steel Curtain destroying my Browns.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01] So I'm still – you care less about sports as you get older, I feel like. Or they're less passionate maybe a little bit. So I'm not quite as – I still love them.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03] Well, you have the world champion Kansas City Chiefs represented here.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02] If you want to talk about passion, yeah, the last like five, six years have been my favorite football years of all time. I mean, ever since Mahomes took under center, man, this is peak football right now. That's true.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01] If you're not competitive, you don't get as emotionally involved.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I stopped being emotionally involved because there's no point. So there really is no point. So if we – the few Cleveland listeners that we have, and I know that we have a few, listen to me. Win some games. I'm still going to be a fan, but win some games, then I'll get excited about things. But until we win some games, it's just the same old Browns.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03] So that's my assessment of the Browns and the NFC – or AFC North. You know, let's see what happens after six weeks or something like that.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02] Sully, what's the preview over there? What are the Steelers and Titans – what are the outlooks there? I feel like we're still rebuilding since the Roethlisberger era ended.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, we got a young team. We got a young team up there. Kenny Pickett, you know, it's going to really depend on how he does at quarterback. Does he develop into – you know, can he be Roethlisberger's – like is he going to be a franchise guy for us? So we'll see.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03] We're shaking our heads now.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. But you never know. You never know. And then the big pickup was DeAndre Hopkins for the Titans. You know, so I think the Titans actually – the Titans are – they're out of position with Derrick Henry where they've got to – they've got to make a move, you know. So I expect them to probably win the South. And we'll see if we can give the Chiefs some competitiveness. But –

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02] You know, the first Super Bowl the Chiefs won, the AFC championship opponent was the Titans. That's right. Yeah. I was at that game and that was – they – you know, you guys gave us a run for them. It was a good game. Good competitive game. So I have respect for the Titans.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03] Zach, are the Chiefs going to repeat?

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02] You got to say no on that. It's so hard. Because it's so hard to repeat. Now, I mean, do I think we're going to win our division barring, you know, an injury to the quarterback? I do. I mean, we'll be in the mix. But I don't know. Between the Bills, the Bengals, it's – I don't have that level of hubris to say, you know, we're going to get back in there. We'll be right there in it, you know, for sure.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02] But it would be really – I mean, I hope it's got a back-to-back because that would really establish a dynasty to win three Super Bowls in four years. Of course. But realistically, you know, they're probably going to stumble at some point.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03] The Bengals without Burrow at the beginning is going to be – that's got a little bit of a challenge. For sure. I don't know how long he's out.

[00:07:20] For sure.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01] But I've been watching Hard Knocks with Aaron Rodgers and the Jets are going to be a – it's going to be a very interesting one.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, that's an interesting move for sure. And I'm a big Aaron Rodgers fan, so I can't be a New York Jets fan, but I can – just as I gag at the thought of the Steelers doing anything. But yeah, they have definitely been our nemesis for decades.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01] Did we just start a weekly NFL podcast? Yeah, it's a football roundtable.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, let me tell you, if you want to have a fantasy football dentistry podcast, I'm on board. I'm ready. I'm ready for you. I've been training for this, so I'm in.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03] He's serious about this.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01] That was the most enjoyable intro I've had in a while.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03] All right. Well, let's get into it. Last week, if you listened and you're still a listener, we thank you. We talked to Sully about his story and his practice and how things have grown. And this week, we're going to shift gears a little bit and talk about the education. I get the honor of helping out with 3D Dentists and being a mentor for the digital implant continuum.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_03] But let's dial it back a little bit and let's talk about how that all started for you, Sully. And how that's continued, what your passion is there, what classes are there, the whole thing. So just start at the beginning and start talking.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well, okay. So you know that saying that you're the sum of the five people that you hang out with? Yeah. Like I've really kind of like – that's one of my – you really just – it really rings true. And I think dentistry is one of those things that we graduate and outside of – you listen to podcasts or stuff like that.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01] You're pretty much around an island and you don't have a very – your five people in your dental world aren't necessarily people that push you if you're just hanging out with people in your community. You know, unfortunately, like local community study clubs and stuff sometimes will have the same level of transparency or authenticity or whatever. And so early on when I heard T-Bone speak and I kind of heard about 3D Dentists, I was just kind of intrigued. And when I would go there, I would learn a bunch and I would want to go back because I would learn.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01] I would come. I would implement something and I'd be like, holy shit. Like it worked. Yeah. Like we were – you know, my dad used to always joke. He'd be like, when I come back from Raleigh, he'd be like – they would all be like in a shelter like embracing it for impact, you know, just because I'd come back with all these ideas. Yeah, that I wanted to implement or do or tweak or change and whatnot. And so I started helping out with the sleep program.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01] There was a digital sleep program that if you bought a comb beam, then you got to get the voucher. And, you know, T-Bone knew one of our like fundamental concepts at Three Dentists is this concept of replacing yourself, which essentially means that all of us are so limited by our future success because of our current busyness and bandwidth.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01] And so if you go and learn new techniques, if you go and learn different stuff or you want to bring on whatever it is, if you don't get things off your plate and give yourself room to implement, grow, then your success is almost always hedged just by the limiting bandwidth. So T-Bone was kind of having the same thing in his own education, meaning that he was wanting to grow courses at the time. You know, this is 2017, 2018.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01] The idea of a live patient implant continuum where you could – Dennis could learn, give back to the community. Like that was a blink in the – you know, kind of the atmosphere. It twinkled in his eye, yeah. And so we kind of had this like 18-month runway where I was going to slowly take over the sleep program or that sleep course that he was doing so he could go do another course. Well, as fate would have it, the second time –

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01] probably the second or third time that I'm there helping teach. And I had mentored the course and been to the course a while, but I was taking a more prominent role. He had a family emergency with his father-in-law in Texas the night before the course. And so it's just kind of one of those like moments, you know. It's funny how like a crazy moment can have such a trickle effect. But basically T-Bone was like, I got to get – we have two options. I've got to go to Texas. I'm getting on a plane in 30 minutes.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01] Either we cancel the course or you do the course, you know, and see what happens. And I was very fortunate because you know Hutan, Kevin, really well. I don't know, Zach, if you know Hutan, but Hutan is a good buddy. And he's been in medical billing for years. So he's done a good amount of stuff with 3D Dentist in the past. And the course – he did a big chunk of the course, but he had been teaching, gosh, probably for 10 years in dental.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01] And so we survived the course and they really like held my hand through it all, you know. It was just great because it wasn't like I was having to carry all the weight. We had his team members. He was there. And then at that point, basically T-Bone couldn't take the course back, right? He was like, okay, y'all did the course. You did it. It was successful. What am I going to do? It's like letting a kid ride their bike without training wheels.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01] Once they do it, you're not going to put it back on, you know. So that was kind of like a big moment for me because it was kind of my first opportunity to see one, do one, teach one, right? Like I had learned sleep. We had had a successful sleep program. I got to help mentor and then ultimately teach it. And that's really where I started kind of like loving seeing the light bulb for people and just click.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01] You know, and to your point, Kevin, you mentioned, you know, what it is that what about it is like my thing or like my wheelhouse or what I love. And it was really a lot of the – I learned it wasn't about the clinical stuff that got me. Like it wasn't about sleep. It was about the implementation of sleep, right? It wasn't about implants.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_03] It was strategy, more the strategy of sleep. Yeah.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_01] Right. And we talked about that in the last episode, kind of that mentality of like, okay, how can I grow this associate and cultivate them and feed them? And so like that part to me started being the part that I really started enjoying. Another funny story. So fast forward. So about six months after this event, T-Bone has this inaugural mastermind event.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01] It's actually for – he was doing this for – Aaron Elliott was doing a sleep course at a hotel. And he rented a room next to it for a bunch of his buddies who were speaking to kind of come and have like a mastermind type event. And I showed up with Aubrey who runs our practice. And I brought my – I was so dumb.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01] And I just started the podcast, the political dentist podcast. And so I bring my pop-up banner to his course. And I literally pop up the banner in front of his thing. And he's like, what are you doing? And like I'm like stupid at this point. And so he ends up inviting me into this session that he's having. And I just have no business being there.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01] But it was really cool to kind of get to see other people that I looked up to and we've been doing this for a while and realized like, hey, this is something that you could do if you wanted to do it. So that actually was the event that kicked off the mastermind program that we started a couple years ago that has really become like one of our flagship things at 3D Dentists. And it does.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01] It focuses on all the things that I – that we both love and enjoy, which primarily kind of revolve around the business of dentistry and running your practice and, you know, that sort of thing.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_03] So let's dive into that a little deeper. Primarily right now, if I'm not correct, you can correct me. You're directly involved – directly, directly involved with Mastermind and the Implant Continuum. So let's talk about Mastermind first. If I'm a practice owner out there that is wanting more or struggling with this or that like we all are, tell me why I should consider doing Mastermind with 3D Dentists.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03] And what the heck am I going to learn? And what's it going to do – what's in it for me?

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01] Gosh. It's the coolest thing that I've ever been a part of. I mean that all sincerely. It's just – there's something special when you put 10 to 12 people in a room who are – that are already successful and want something different. And I think that's really what – everyone that comes to the program is already a successful dentist. They've got a busy practice, you know, whatever it is.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01] But typically, it's someone who's wanting more somewhere or there's something that they're just missing. And that could be like – that could be, hey, I just want more time back. Like my kids are at ages where I'm not – I need to be – I want to be at home more. I want to be at games more. I'm on the grind all day. Like how do I – how do I unwind the practice that built me to make the same, have more time, do more of what I want to do, less of what I don't?

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01] And it's hard to even give you an idea of like what it actually is because it's so – it's so not tailored to a specific niche. Like I think that's where we're unique and like from a coaching standpoint is that there's nothing cookie cutter about it.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_03] But I do think there's some 3D principles that permeate all of that. So for our listeners who may not, you know, know that like we know that, lay out a couple of those pearls.

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[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01] So, you know, for us, everything starts with diagnosis and case acceptance. I mean, our case acceptance philosophy is that all of us have a too high of a priority on high case acceptance. Meaning that traditionally we grade ourselves on trying to have – like if I were to ask Zach, like, hey, Zach, what would you think is successful case acceptance? Most people are going to say 80, 90, you know, like they want to be high.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01] And our mentality is I want to be 15% to 20%. And when I say that, like that should kind of like make people be like, wait, that makes no sense. Why would you want 15% to 20% case acceptance? And that's because we as an industry have gotten away from good comprehensive diagnosis. Right.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01] And part of that is because we're still operating and communicating with patients in a 1990s or 2000s way where you could just tell them what they needed and they would do it. And or we've grown up in an insurance-based practice where insurance is paying for 50% of it anyways. So I'm going to – great.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01] How hard is it to get case acceptance when it's a $1,000 crown? Crown of the year club. I guess. And so when you start to truly present comprehensive dentistry in one time to a patient, dentistry can very easily get to be $4,000, $5,000, $6,000, $8,000, $10,000, $12,000.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01] And that's my question to the listeners is like when was the last time that you treatment plan something over $5,000, over $10,000? And maybe outside of like Invisalign or something like that. But I think routinely what people see is they just don't present – they present dentistry in the way that insurance will pay basically.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01] And so when you start presenting and communicating in that way, it's going to decrease your case acceptance because – or it creates new problems. And that's really what we dive into is our goal is to create a problem that dentistry becomes unaffordable for the patient. And then how do we financially make it more affordable for the patient through different strategies and ways of doing things to do what our big tagline is, which is fewer well-planned visits.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01] If I had to sum up Mastermind in a nutshell, it's how can I get fewer well-planned visits? Because if I know I get fewer well-planned visits – and at face value, what I mean is doing three crowns on one patient instead of one crown on three patients. Because if I do that, profitability goes up. I get more time back. I can coach more. I can learn more. Like fewer well-planned visits solves the hamster wheel problem.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01] And so that's kind of like the foundational tidbit I guess is we've got to find a way to decrease our case acceptance by presenting more comprehensively. And the number one thing, which I know you know, Kevin, that we implement and work on with everybody is photography. So we take photos on every single new patient. No intraoral photos, like full DSLR photos on every new patient.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03] And that's such a basic thing. So basic. But it is not something that is routinely done in most people's offices. And, you know, it's definitely been a big part of our success. I mean, I can't even – that's an understatement what I just said in terms of case acceptance and presenting treatment to patients.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, it's everything because when patients can look at their own mouth and have conversations and see it up on a big screen, we've all seen the success that's had. I mean, we all saw in COVID time how – I mean, how many more veneers and things did y'all do because people started seeing their teeth on Zoom calls? Sure. Like it's crazy how when people see their teeth, they will ask you and – they will a lot of times out-diagnose us.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01] So stuff like that I know sounds so basic, but the reality is what makes Mastermind special and how the program works is really the accountability. Because that's the part that is – the part that I think all of us are missing on a day-in and day-out basis is having a text thread of 10 other dentists who are pushing you. And I see, oh, shit, Kevin already got photography.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01] He's posting these cases and his patients are saying yes. Like we've all got that natural competitiveness to us that we want to surround ourselves with winners and be that way. And so I think that's a big part of what makes it special is the accountability aspect of it to really drive what doctors want.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_03] So for our listeners, how often does Mastermind meet? Is it at the retreat in Raleigh? Speak to that and then we're going to move on to taking plans.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01] So Mastermind runs twice a year, January to June and July to December. So the next enrollment I think is January. It may be even sold out. I don't know. But that's when it runs. We meet two weekends. Both weekends are at the retreat, which is an unbelievably cool spot. It's in North Carolina. Think of it like a dental summer camp. Yeah. We have a pool, a huge training facility there.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01] We can sleep 12 people. So it's a really cool experience because we make breakfast together. We eat dinner together. We hang out and have a beer together. We sit by fire. It's just a great experience. But we meet at the beginning and at the end. And then we have monthly coaching calls, monthly group calls.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01] And then the second weekend, we also start to bring and incorporate team members into it, which that's what we really see continues to be the needle mover is when we can engage with people's teams and find those people that those, you know, those people on your team that can keep you accountable in the office. And then the second weekend, we're going to be able to do that. And then the second weekend, we're going to be able to do that.

[00:24:57] Yeah.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03] I just wanted to interject here. As you were talking about your early 3D dentist education experiences, I'm thinking of, you know, the teaching facility above T-Bone's office and what that was like. And then as we transitioned into the retreat, you know, it's like one of my favorite places to be on earth. It's just there is a certain kind of magic that happens at that place. Unless you've experienced it, it's hard to put into words.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03] But, you know, it sounds like the most nerdy thing in the world. But sitting around a fire and talking about your practice or your struggles or your successes, there's something of value to that.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01] Well, and I'll tell you, the team aspect keeps growing. Like we had 40 hygienists in my office last week. So doctors at our program send their lead hygienist or one or two of their hygienists. And when you think about what it impacts us to have this kind of like conversation and how it motivates us and gets us excited, think about what that would do for your team members. Like, yeah.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01] If office managers had other office managers and I'm not talking like ADOM or something like I'm talking like real accountability of people in the trenches doing it. Yes. Like that, that, that's, you know, that's a really, a really cool, powerful thing.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_03] All right. Let's move on to implants. So, Zach. Yeah. We're going to get you to the implant continuum after you get your cone beam installed. By the time this comes out. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Your cone beam will be in your office maybe or just about there. My cone beam.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_02] Zach, what's holding you back? Well, let me get, it's coming. The cone beam's coming. It's, it, it, you don't know how long it took me to get this greenlit. Sully, I don't even want to, I don't even want to get into it. But anyway, it's coming. On the day that the Chiefs opening day game on Thursday, September 7th, the cone beam comes that day. So then once I get that up and running, now I can start thinking, you know, about the next step.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01] That's a classic dentist way. Let's buy this piece of equipment and then let's, let's forego the training to maximize it. No, no, no. I'm going to get that. I'm going to get it. No, no, no. For a month or two.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02] The Vodtech people are going to come in. I'm going to, I'm going to get the training. I'm going to get it going.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01] Oh my gosh. Don't slow roll it. I'm telling you, get it. Just get the, get the, get the training scheduled.

[00:27:19] Okay.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03] All right. So if we wanted to convince Zach to come to Raleigh and place some implants, what are we going to learn? Talk me. Give me the pitch. What's going to look like?

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01] Look, look, look, look, there's a, there's a ton of amazing programs out there. I'll tell you what we do really well. One is, is the community and the implementation. Meaning what we've talked about last week and this week, as far as being successful, you will come to learn implants and you will leave with so much more. That is, that is my promise to you. So, um, the other part of this is everybody gets excited about the implants.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01] What I think is great about our program is that it's fully encompassing from extraction and graft all the way to restoration. That's important to me. What I mean, yeah, it's huge because most of us, um, and I'm not saying use that necessarily, but most of us are, have, have taken teeth out for a long time. And we take the teeth out with no, uh, real care for preservation of the site for a future implant.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01] And so, um, and, and, and then frankly, the majority of our implants, what I'll tell us, tell you is, and what we see is that the majority of new implant place or implants come from the implant. Uh, teeth that they're taking out and grafting because those patients are, when you're losing a body part, like that's the best time to convince you to get that body part again. Tooth replacement therapy. Right. And the patient that's been missing it for five years is way less likely to want to do it. So that's fair.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01] So, so the program starts out with, uh, day one is didactic extraction, extraction, grafting, suturing, uh, PRF, which is something obviously that's super popular. Right now. And so you learn to draw blood. Um, we do all that on each other. And then, uh, then we get into the implant portion. You know, we, we fundamentally believe in guided surgery at three dentists. Uh, so I think that's a huge thing. Leveraging the technology you've got to learn to do guided implants. We do free handed exercises.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01] Um, but we will place on the live patients guided. And then, and then we have another day, a whole day of, of looking at the, the restoration side and planning. And our, our wonder, wonderful, uh, Dr. Kevin Fryer over here actually teaches that day. Mm-hmm. And to me, that's, when you look at what's probably one of the most profitable procedures in general dentistry, um, it's the single implant on number 19.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01] And the reason I say that is because that's a two appointment, that's a two appointment process in Kevin and I's office. Mm-hmm. And so for you to be able to do a $5,000 procedure in, um, you know, essentially let's, let's say it's overkill, uh, two hours of time. Two hours of surgery and two hours. No, you can't make that. It's a lot of fillings. You, you, a lot of fillings. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01] And so we teach, we teach taking impression, final impression at day of placement. Uh, that's a big kind of spoiler for what, for what Kevin talks about on, on, on that day three. And then, um, and then the last three days are all live patient actually getting to do the dentistry. So what's so cool about, um, the retreat is we're paired with a nonprofit that T-Bone started. Uh, so, so we get to give back to the community, obviously with the dentistry that we do. So these are all working class people.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01] They're not homeless. They're, they're firefighters, teachers, police officers, you know, people who are, um, you know, who are great for our communities. But the reality is, is like $5,000 is, you know, a month or two's paycheck for them. So it's not realistic that they can even maybe get this dentistry done. So it's just a cool, the patients are really grateful and you get an unbelievable experience. So I, I think that all encompassing, uh, given what it is, there really isn't another

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01] program out there like it.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_02] How many dentists, uh, take one of these classes at any one given time? What's like an average class size?

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, so the maximum, the maximum is 10. So that's the other part that's really nice.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_02] How many, uh, instructors are there for the... So, yeah.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01] So it's, there's five operatories in the nonprofit. And so each doctor is paired up with another doctor and each pair has their own mentor. So, um, there's a mentor always... Two to one. That's good. That's a good ratio. Yeah. Two to one. And then, uh, we strongly encourage, um, bringing assistants so that our, our assistants can teach those assistants how to draw blood, you know, how to set up the room, how to break down. I mean, with implants and there's so many more parts and pieces. Sure.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01] And the armamentarium compared to, you know, fillings and crowns and traditional general dentistry. So, uh, that's another part that I think is great that the assistants kind of get to learn and do all that. So I think that's a huge part that they should, they should come.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_03] And the other cool part and bonus is that you have practically unlimited support. I mean, as you go back to your practice, we have multiple text chains going from who knows how far back, um, you know, uh, you think this is a good site to place an implant or this is the implant I placed today. So you have some feedback from all of the mentors and the instructors and your classmates during that period of time.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03] And, um, I, you know, I think it's just a really cool thing. I think that is also unique to that program.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01] Well, and one more thing too, that I think is neat, um, that we do Zach is, um, and cause I'm saying this for you specifically as I want you to do this is start saving your cases that you see that are potentially good cases because we, we have every attendee bring, uh, uh, up to three to five cone beams and, um, digital plan immediately on site.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02] Right. Yes. So, yeah.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01] So we will, we will make the guides for you, 3d print the guides for you at the course so that you could go back Monday morning after the course with your guides, with your plans, ready to, uh, place implants on your patients at home. And I think that's super cool. I think that's, we're seeing a lot of people do well because they don't wait a month to get started, right? Like they're going back the next week with those cases and, and getting implants placed. So the momentum continues.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02] Love it. Love it. Very cool.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03] Any other questions, Zach?

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02] I have a lot, but, uh, but, uh, but, uh, too many to, to fit into our last one minute. So I'll just have to say it's, uh, you know, who would you put your money on to win the, you know, Superbowl?

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03] Come on. I will tell you this right now, not the Browns.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02] Ah, that's, that's, I'm going to do a sleeper pick.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01] I, I, I am sucked into this Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers looks more dialed. I'm a sleeper pick on. You think he's going to do a Brady? You think he's going to do a Tom Brady? He's going to pull a Tom Brady. Oh man. It's the Jets.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03] Let's re-release, re-release this episode on February, whatever Superbowl day is.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01] I'm going to look like, I'm going to look like greatness or I'm going to look like, I'll just go hide. But Nostradamus, Sully.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02] There you go. Hey, Sully, thank you. Thank you for taking an hour out of your day. Especially with no air conditioning. I mean, Sully's had to do this podcast with no shirt. I mean, that's some dedication.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03] For our listeners, Sully is wearing no shirt. We're not sure about the pants. He's had an air conditioning emergency and he's sitting in the national heat. But Zach and I both have our clothes on as far as I can tell.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02] Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. Indeed. Indeed. So anyway, thanks, Sully. Thanks for taking the time out of your day. Hey, Kevin, as always a pleasure. If you have not joined the very clinical Facebook group, Kevin's still not charging for it. So you should get in while it's free.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02] Check it out. Sully, you should get in there if you're not in there already.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01] Why not in there? I already be. All right.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_02] I think I'm in there. Yeah. All right. Well, hey, thank you guys for listening. And Kevin, we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.

[00:35:25] See you next Tuesday.