Very Clinical: People Hear What They Want To Hear

[00:00:00] This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:15] Welcome to the Very Clinical Podcast. In about the time it takes to do an MO on three, we will entertain and amaze you with tips and tricks on regular daily dentistry. Here's Kevin and Zach.

[00:00:28] What is up, Very Clinical listeners? Welcome back to another episode. I'm Dr. Zach Miners coming to you from KCMO. And with me, I have my trusty co-host, Dr. Kevin Hare Fryer. Kevin, what is up?

[00:00:40] How are you doing, Zach? Are you all full from Thanksgiving?

[00:00:44] Oh, Thanksgiving was fantastic. Good weekend. Good weekend.

[00:00:49] But you didn't have pumpkin pie. That's a shame.

[00:00:52] No, I did not. But they did have some chocolate cream pie and it was fantastic.

[00:00:56] All right. I might rather have that.

[00:00:59] Yeah, of course you would.

[00:01:01] I love chocolate. A lot.

[00:01:03] Yeah, for sure.

[00:01:05] I do.

[00:01:06] Kevin, do you have an unofficial like top three pies?

[00:01:09] Top three pies.

[00:01:11] I do enjoy an apple pie.

[00:01:14] Apple's great. Yes.

[00:01:16] I do enjoy the pumpkin pie, but only at the holidays.

[00:01:20] I know you just worked at that.

[00:01:21] Boo. Sucks.

[00:01:22] And anything with chocolate in it, I'm gonna...

[00:01:24] Okay.

[00:01:25] I'm gonna...

[00:01:27] That's always near the top of the list. How about you?

[00:01:30] Banana cream.

[00:01:32] French silk.

[00:01:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:01:34] That's a good one.

[00:01:36] And then it's gonna be tough between chocolate cream and then...

[00:01:41] Or cherry.

[00:01:43] Yeah.

[00:01:43] I'm not a big fan of the cherry.

[00:01:44] She's my cherry pie.

[00:01:45] No cherry?

[00:01:46] Yeah.

[00:01:47] Okay.

[00:01:48] Not a big...

[00:01:48] I like the apple pie.

[00:01:50] Apple pie's good.

[00:01:51] Apple's fine.

[00:01:52] I would rather just have the baked apples, forget the pie, just give me the cinnamon apples.

[00:01:56] I'm good with that.

[00:01:57] But anyway, banana cream, number one.

[00:02:01] That has the little vanilla wafers on it.

[00:02:04] Yeah.

[00:02:05] Oof.

[00:02:05] Chef's kiss on that.

[00:02:07] Okay.

[00:02:07] Can you believe it's December?

[00:02:12] No.

[00:02:12] Yeah.

[00:02:13] I know.

[00:02:14] End of year kind of stuff.

[00:02:15] You know, I mean, people are already saying, see you next year and stuff like that

[00:02:18] at their appointments, which I totally hate, but it is what it is.

[00:02:21] So...

[00:02:21] Do you go, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[00:02:23] See you next year?

[00:02:24] I don't think I acknowledge it.

[00:02:26] I'm cool.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:28] That sounds great.

[00:02:30] Uh, but you know, December means you have to plan for your, uh, office holiday party.

[00:02:37] Do you call it Christmas or do you call it holiday?

[00:02:40] We're going to call it a Christmas party.

[00:02:41] Okay.

[00:02:42] I, I let them, um, decide.

[00:02:46] Uh, I do have, I think we've probably talked about this before, but, uh, several years ago,

[00:02:52] probably four or five years ago, we let them decide and we usually have it at some restaurant

[00:02:57] and I don't really put...

[00:02:59] Decide on where or what restaurant?

[00:03:01] Or, okay.

[00:03:02] Okay.

[00:03:02] What restaurant?

[00:03:03] All right.

[00:03:03] Yeah.

[00:03:03] And I don't really put any restrictions on it.

[00:03:06] And instead of choosing, I mean, it's Cleveland, right?

[00:03:10] I, we don't have a lot, but we do have a lot of nice restaurants.

[00:03:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:15] We just do.

[00:03:16] Well, I mean, you're in, it's a major metropolitan area.

[00:03:18] You're going to get some chefs, you know, for sure.

[00:03:20] And so there are some pretty high end restaurants.

[00:03:23] So, like, I let them decide, but you know, it's like floating these places out.

[00:03:30] We ended up at some place that I wouldn't, I mean, the menu was, I mean, it was just like,

[00:03:40] I don't even know how to describe it.

[00:03:43] Um, was it, was it low end or was it too high end or was it really low end?

[00:03:47] Oh, okay.

[00:03:48] And I'm sitting there thinking you could have had anything and you chose this.

[00:03:53] You're telling me you ended up at Chili's or something like that?

[00:03:56] I mean, it was akin to Chili's or Apple's, but independent version of that.

[00:04:01] Okay.

[00:04:02] That's the best way I can, this restaurant doesn't even exist anymore.

[00:04:05] All right.

[00:04:06] Um, that bad.

[00:04:07] Well, probably COVID killed it.

[00:04:09] Oh, yeah.

[00:04:11] But anyway, I'm sitting there thinking, could have had anything.

[00:04:15] And here we are.

[00:04:16] And I purposely just ordered a Caesar salad with chicken on it because like, I was, that

[00:04:21] was my protest move to this.

[00:04:23] But word came back to me that some of the places I suggested they didn't want to go

[00:04:28] to because they didn't know how to pronounce some of the names of the food on the menu.

[00:04:35] Which, you know, I was, if you know me well, there's nothing more I like than gathering people

[00:04:44] around at a restaurant and having an experience, you know, cool experience.

[00:04:50] And I was deprived of giving that gift that year.

[00:04:54] But this year we're going to, um, some, uh, fancy winery that I've been to, I think once

[00:05:02] or twice before in a little town called Chagrin Falls, which if you look that up at Christmas

[00:05:07] time, it's going to look like your Hallmark greeting card.

[00:05:10] Oh, cool.

[00:05:11] And, um, very cool place.

[00:05:12] They picked it and, uh, that's what we're going to do.

[00:05:15] Right on.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:17] We've got, we're, we're headed this year.

[00:05:19] We're, we've kind of been stuck in a, in a rut of going to one of the same places and

[00:05:24] a nice place that also decorates itself up, you know, Hallmark, Hallmark, Hallmark, you

[00:05:30] know, Kansas city, uh, company for sure.

[00:05:33] Um, and we were trying something different this year.

[00:05:37] My, my mom booked us in to some kind of a, some French place.

[00:05:41] Uh, I'm not really a French food guy, but, uh, we're going to give it a go.

[00:05:47] So, uh, and I have some additional questions for you, Kevin.

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:50] Um, do your office people exchange gifts on any level or they do that?

[00:05:56] Yeah.

[00:05:56] So it's changed over the years.

[00:05:58] We had a really excellent white elephant exchange as well as a regular gift exchange last time.

[00:06:05] So I think they've decided to do the white elephant thing again, because it was really

[00:06:10] funny.

[00:06:11] Um, and they got a big kick out of it.

[00:06:14] So I think, um, that's the only thing they're going to do this year, which I support.

[00:06:18] Okay.

[00:06:18] Um, and you know, with like stealing the gifts and all that sort of stuff, it was, um, I

[00:06:25] actually, you know, was cracking up at some of the things that happened during that.

[00:06:29] So.

[00:06:29] Okay.

[00:06:31] Yeah.

[00:06:31] Um, yeah, with our, our staff does a gift exchange thing and they're really proud of

[00:06:36] their process and that's a, it's a big deal to them.

[00:06:39] So it's, yeah, that's cool.

[00:06:41] I, I, um, I, I could take or leave those holiday parties.

[00:06:47] Do you do them on an evening, a like midday, like, like maybe like work the morning and then

[00:06:54] have your party.

[00:06:54] Do you know, weekend?

[00:06:55] How do, how do you time it?

[00:06:57] I let them choose and, uh, we're off on Fridays.

[00:07:00] So it's going to be, uh, Friday at 5 PM because that's the only time that was available for the

[00:07:07] size of the party we had, but, um, and I think they, they want to go to downtown ice skating

[00:07:14] afterwards, which I think I might just not, I might not join for that, but we'll see.

[00:07:20] We'll see how I feel that day.

[00:07:21] Okay.

[00:07:21] So it turns into a, a dinner and, and an activity.

[00:07:25] And, uh, last year they rented a limo, which I was kind of like, but it ended up being fun.

[00:07:31] Okay.

[00:07:32] And, uh, I've never been in a limo like that before in my life.

[00:07:35] And, um, it was fun.

[00:07:37] And we went, there's a place nearby that has a giant light display and we all went through

[00:07:43] that and it was, it was fun.

[00:07:45] It was one of those where I, at first I was like, eh, but ended up being, it ended up

[00:07:49] being okay.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:50] I think you, you must, I think you go a little bigger than I do.

[00:07:52] We, we usually pick a day where we're, like, instead of working, you know, our, you know,

[00:07:58] eight to five, we knock off at about, you know, two and do like more of like a, you know,

[00:08:04] early, you know, early evening type of a thing.

[00:08:07] And then everyone's home by seven o'clock, you know, usually.

[00:08:09] We've done that before, but last couple of times it's been like regular meal or dinner,

[00:08:15] dinner time.

[00:08:16] Are you one of those people that takes off the week between Thanksgiving?

[00:08:20] I mean, that's sorry.

[00:08:21] Thanksgiving is this last week.

[00:08:23] Um, yeah.

[00:08:23] Christmas and new year's.

[00:08:24] Do you take that week off or do you work that week?

[00:08:26] Uh, I think we're off this time, but I, I, I'm not exactly sure.

[00:08:32] Oh, okay.

[00:08:33] Fair enough.

[00:08:34] I know a lot of people take that off.

[00:08:36] I've usually made a lot of money then.

[00:08:37] So I don't.

[00:08:39] Don't take that off.

[00:08:40] I don't take that off.

[00:08:41] You know, usually Charlie's in town and all that sort of stuff.

[00:08:44] So I just want to, you know, spend some time with him.

[00:08:47] And sure.

[00:08:47] I don't, if we're, what, I don't know what day of the week.

[00:08:51] Um, I haven't looked.

[00:08:53] I haven't looked.

[00:08:55] If we are this year, it's not going to be a lot of working.

[00:08:59] Gotcha.

[00:08:59] Okay.

[00:09:00] Sparse schedule.

[00:09:02] Well, Kevin, last week, uh, if you caught our show, we were talking about, uh, the verbal

[00:09:05] skills, you know, kind of non-clinical side of, of Invisalign.

[00:09:09] Yeah.

[00:09:10] And we were talking about maybe, you know, taking that topic a little bit further into,

[00:09:15] um, some of the other types of procedures that we do.

[00:09:19] So, um, you kick, kick it off for me here.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:22] So I think that, you know, we're talking off air that, um, as time has gone on, we've both

[00:09:31] become more confident in our skills and our abilities.

[00:09:34] And that translates into being able to talk to the patients better.

[00:09:40] Um, and so I think that once you're confident and proficient, it shows through in your words

[00:09:50] and pro and your body language and all the other stuff that people are paying attention

[00:09:55] to.

[00:09:55] So, um, things that used to be an objection in the past aren't so much anymore.

[00:10:02] For example, we were talking about the rubber dam, um, which, you know, I love using a lot.

[00:10:08] And, um, you know, in the past that might've gotten an objection from the patient from that.

[00:10:15] I don't think anyone really loves it, but I don't give them a choice.

[00:10:21] Like, we're going to put this on to help keep your tongue in cheek out of the way and keep

[00:10:25] everything dry.

[00:10:25] And, you know, and it's on their tooth as I'm saying that, like they don't really have

[00:10:32] to do it.

[00:10:32] Both of us do endo.

[00:10:34] Yeah.

[00:10:35] And I mean, that's a non-negotiable for an endo.

[00:10:37] Like if you're going to not accept a rubber dam, then that the tooth, then that's it.

[00:10:42] You're, you're, it's, it's getting pulled.

[00:10:44] So it's, it's, it's this or, or forget it.

[00:10:47] So we, I, I wonder if the non rubber dam for operative comes from the person who also doesn't

[00:10:54] do any endo.

[00:10:55] I bet it probably does to a certain degree.

[00:10:58] I mean, there has to be a percentage of that.

[00:11:01] And I, I think you said something before we started about, um, say what you said about

[00:11:07] it's, it's more them than.

[00:11:10] Oh, I, I, I honest, I, I honest to God think that the, but well, at least just based upon

[00:11:17] my experience talking to you and other people that use it for, you know, a good percentage

[00:11:24] that are operative.

[00:11:26] I, every time I just say, Hey, this is going to give us a better result.

[00:11:29] It's going to be a little awkward to put on.

[00:11:31] And then once it's on there, you're not going to get any of our bad taste.

[00:11:34] You're not going to worry about where your tongue is.

[00:11:36] And then, then that's it.

[00:11:37] And then we start putting it on and I'm like, Oh, this is a little weird.

[00:11:39] Sorry.

[00:11:40] I'm going to push on you.

[00:11:41] And I floss a little bit and then it's over and done.

[00:11:43] I don't have, and at the end of the appointment, I haven't had anyone say that that was like

[00:11:48] the worst part or that was so horrible, you know?

[00:11:53] So I, I really feel like that the people that say that their patients won't tolerate it,

[00:12:00] maybe their, maybe their personal confidence with it isn't as, isn't as high or they aren't

[00:12:05] as fast or they don't have an assistant that helps them get it, get it on and get it done.

[00:12:09] They don't have the right clamps or good clamps or something, you know, or the right kind

[00:12:15] of rubber dam.

[00:12:15] I mean, I, switching to ISO dam made me use the rubber dam more often.

[00:12:21] I know you, I know you still use like a, just your regular stock green and there's

[00:12:24] nothing wrong with those either, but I don't know, confidence reps, uh, bright materials,

[00:12:30] an assistant that knows how to use it.

[00:12:31] That that's, what's made the difference for me.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] It's always blown my mind that someone can do some complex crown and bridge or place an

[00:12:38] implant, but they can't place a rubber dam.

[00:12:41] And I think it's just, again, it's, it's reps and being competent with it.

[00:12:44] It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[00:12:46] It, I, I, if you decide one day that you're going to start using it and maybe you don't

[00:12:52] have some of those verbal skills to present it as a positive thing for the person.

[00:12:58] And then you're sitting there struggling to floss it through and all that stuff.

[00:13:02] Then it can, I think become a negative.

[00:13:04] And then all of a sudden you're like, well, my patients hate this thing.

[00:13:07] Right.

[00:13:07] You know, I mean, sure.

[00:13:08] That's what it turns into.

[00:13:09] You're a hundred percent.

[00:13:10] Sure.

[00:13:10] You know, sure.

[00:13:11] Absolutely.

[00:13:13] Um, but I mean, the same thing could be said for, you know, you doing a extraction on

[00:13:18] someone.

[00:13:19] I mean, if you, you don't, you don't get them numb grade or you have a tough time with

[00:13:23] the tooth, you might start giving up on that too.

[00:13:26] It's easy to give up on things when they don't go your way a few times.

[00:13:29] I I've been there.

[00:13:30] I've done that.

[00:13:30] So I get it.

[00:13:32] I get it.

[00:13:32] So that, I mean, yes, with rubber dam, present the positives, practice, be slick at it.

[00:13:38] Um, and I think you said the most important thing there, be positive about it, like express

[00:13:43] all the positive that they're going to get out of it.

[00:13:47] Yep.

[00:13:47] Um, you know, you're going to get something positive out of it, but you know, it takes

[00:13:52] a pretty, it would take a pretty irrational jerk kind of a patient for you to say, this

[00:13:59] is going to allow me to do a great job for you.

[00:14:01] And then you just say, ah, no thanks.

[00:14:05] I mean, can you imagine, imagine like the, I don't know any kind of like an equivalent

[00:14:09] to that?

[00:14:09] Like, I don't know.

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:11] I mean, I think a lot of it is confidence, the way you, um, present yourself.

[00:14:17] I think if you just start putting on something on somebody and you haven't told them what

[00:14:22] you're going to do, maybe shown them what it looks like and haven't told them what it's

[00:14:26] going to be, you start just shoving something on someone.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:28] I think that, I think you will get some negative blowback for sure.

[00:14:33] For sure.

[00:14:34] All right.

[00:14:34] We can move on past that, but that's.

[00:14:36] Yeah.

[00:14:36] What are some other things that we may have struggled as a younger dentist?

[00:14:41] Um, you know, we were talking about, uh, you know, when a tooth needs a crown or not,

[00:14:47] like I know things like I, to me, I think that, you know, there are some like non-negotiables,

[00:14:56] like I'm not going to replace the cusp with filling material.

[00:15:00] Um, that tooth needs a crown a hundred percent of the time.

[00:15:03] Um, and I think that the way I presented that, you know, 1995 me versus 2023 me, I get a lot

[00:15:13] less objection to that by simply not saying that much.

[00:15:20] Your tooth is broken.

[00:15:22] It needs a crown is the best way to fix this.

[00:15:24] Let's get started.

[00:15:25] Like I don't sure, you know, the, the verbal diarrhea has, is gone.

[00:15:30] Um, I, especially when you, um, when you don't present a second option, I think that's

[00:15:38] actually where I made a lot of mistakes.

[00:15:39] I was like, you know, there is an option.

[00:15:41] I, we could fill this in, wah, wah, wah.

[00:15:44] And I mean, I'm still willing.

[00:15:46] I still feel good enough about my operative to replace a cusp with composite if need be.

[00:15:54] Um, but I don't want to present that as a choice.

[00:15:57] If I, if I really don't think that's, you know, what, what the person is.

[00:16:02] I want them to say no to the crown.

[00:16:05] I want them to say like, well, I just can't, I just, I just, I just can't afford that.

[00:16:08] I can't, I can't, I can't swing that.

[00:16:10] And then maybe we'll have a different conversation, but I don't want to, I think presenting an option

[00:16:15] where there it'd be better if there wasn't an option is, is, is been my, a winner for me for sure.

[00:16:21] Yeah.

[00:16:22] I mean, a lot of it is, you know, using the line, this is what I would do if you were my

[00:16:28] brother or you were my sister.

[00:16:30] This is what I would do.

[00:16:31] And, you know, I, I can't believe the looks on people's face when I say that, like it's

[00:16:39] never been presented to them like that before.

[00:16:42] And I truly mean it.

[00:16:44] Um, you know, if you were my brother, this is what I would recommend.

[00:16:48] Yeah.

[00:16:48] Okay.

[00:16:49] You know, that's, that's, um, that's pretty easy line.

[00:16:53] A winner key phrase, um, for our practice.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:16:59] That that's, that's, I mean, that, that's a good, that's a good line.

[00:17:04] It works, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[00:17:07] And I mean, and certainly you're going to run into some people that don't want a crown

[00:17:12] for any variety of reasons, but you know, that's, that's a whole other podcast and a

[00:17:16] whole other, you know, topic, you know?

[00:17:20] Um, I will admit though, that there, even to this day, there are a couple, some scenarios

[00:17:28] by, by which I care about the tooth more than the patient does.

[00:17:34] Mm-hmm .

[00:17:36] I mean, we'll, we'll do something to fix this and patch it and keep it something.

[00:17:41] Yeah.

[00:17:42] I don't know.

[00:17:42] I just get stuck in that loop of like where I'm like, I can't accept the fact that they're

[00:17:47] just going to like do nothing with it.

[00:17:50] So I, I got a, I got a, I've got a, I've got a, I've got a, still got a mental problem

[00:17:53] in that respect.

[00:17:54] One of our jokes behind the scenes is not my tooth, not my problem.

[00:17:57] So, you know, I, I, I know that I, I, I'm, I, I can't, I'm not there yet.

[00:18:06] I hope to get there, but I, but I, I'm not, I'm not totally there in that, in that mindset

[00:18:12] yet for sure.

[00:18:14] Um, I think though that the more confident you are in your crowns, like you've seen them

[00:18:23] last a long period of time.

[00:18:24] We've had that, we have the benefit of, of seeing the ones that were well maintained be

[00:18:28] there for 10, 15, you know, I've, you know, certainly I'm, I'm starting to see some of those

[00:18:32] 20 year recalls now.

[00:18:34] Right.

[00:18:34] And, you know, that, that makes you feel like, wow, that, that was, that was the choice.

[00:18:40] That was the, I made the right choice at the time and I, you know, it's working out.

[00:18:46] So, you know, um, the benefit of, the benefit of longevity and recalls is, is, is a lot

[00:18:54] for sure.

[00:18:55] It helps out a lot.

[00:18:56] Do you get much objection to scaling and root planing?

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:01] Yeah, I do.

[00:19:02] I do get objections to scaling and root planing.

[00:19:04] Uh, do you get objections?

[00:19:06] I don't anymore.

[00:19:07] And I'm trying to, I think the, I think there's a couple factors there.

[00:19:14] One of them is, I think our hygienists are really good at explaining it.

[00:19:18] Yeah.

[00:19:20] And that's just come from repetition and sort of role playing and they each sort of have

[00:19:27] their own little way of doing it.

[00:19:28] But I think the other thing is blowing up their x-rays in front of their face on the

[00:19:33] TV monitors and showing them the tartar, um, because it's a mystery to them, um, unless

[00:19:41] they can see it.

[00:19:42] So a picture says a thousand words and, um, I don't get the sort of objection that I used

[00:19:51] to when I was first starting to practice because I couldn't do that.

[00:19:56] There was, there was no technological way to do that in the way that I can now.

[00:20:01] So that, so that goes back to the crown thing.

[00:20:03] So here's the difference between 2002 Zach and 2022 Zach is that, you know, every time

[00:20:11] someone's got, you know, uh, a tooth that needs a crown, unless it's extremely obvious

[00:20:18] and they can just see it with their own eyes and they just, they just know, I mean, like,

[00:20:22] uh, uh, Tarun has always said, you know, the, the, the most important piece of tech, even

[00:20:27] for, you know, someone who has very little tech like me is that digital camera and a good,

[00:20:31] and a good, uh, a good way to display said photos.

[00:20:35] And, um, you know, just taking a picture and putting it on the screen.

[00:20:40] Um, I'm, I'm still amazed at how many people don't have a way to get a good photo with their

[00:20:48] hygienist or an assistant and, and throw it up on a screen in a, in a very quick timeframe.

[00:20:53] Yep.

[00:20:53] And, uh, that, that has eliminated most of my other words I've, I've had to say.

[00:21:01] Right.

[00:21:01] I was just going to say that it, that replaces all the words.

[00:21:05] I mean, if you don't have that, you have to build some sort of word story.

[00:21:10] And if you're not on your game that day or the patient.

[00:21:13] Or you don't have the time or whatever.

[00:21:15] It doesn't believe you or whatever.

[00:21:16] But if you just point to the screen, your tooth's broken here.

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] This is the best way for me to fix it.

[00:21:22] And sure.

[00:21:23] You know, like our monitors are really big.

[00:21:25] I wish they were bigger.

[00:21:27] I, I would have bought.

[00:21:27] What do you, what do you have?

[00:21:28] How big are you rocking?

[00:21:29] How many inches?

[00:21:31] I think they're like 49 inches.

[00:21:34] Oh, wow.

[00:21:35] Something like that.

[00:21:36] Okay.

[00:21:36] But I would get 60 or 70 if I could do it all over again.

[00:21:40] Okay.

[00:21:40] It wouldn't, they wouldn't fit, uh, bigger wouldn't fit on our walls.

[00:21:45] The way we have, um, you'd have to see as too hard to explain, but we got, we got the

[00:21:50] biggest that would fit into the space allotted.

[00:21:54] Hmm.

[00:21:55] Yes.

[00:21:56] It's satisfying.

[00:21:59] Um, I don't even, I don't have that.

[00:22:00] I don't have that big amount of, I don't have that big of a computer screens in the room

[00:22:04] for people to look at, but I mean, they're like solid, you know, nice 25 inch monitors

[00:22:09] and we can get them close enough to the person that, um, it's, uh, it's, it's very clear.

[00:22:16] And, uh, you know, I think there's, I think there's a lot of tenants that don't take pictures

[00:22:21] of their, don't take pictures of their work either, but the befores afters having afters

[00:22:27] is, is nice, nice too.

[00:22:30] But blowing up x-rays for people just doesn't make sense.

[00:22:33] But if you blow up a picture of a tooth with a big crack in it, I always kind of joke

[00:22:37] with like, like, you don't have to be a dentist to see that this thing has got a massive crack.

[00:22:40] Right.

[00:22:40] I use the same joke.

[00:22:43] You don't have to be a dentist.

[00:22:44] You can see that crack right here.

[00:22:45] Our first year dental student could tell you that that tooth cracked or whatever.

[00:22:48] And, you know, patients get that.

[00:22:50] But I, yeah, I don't like to diagnose from x-rays except for the root planing because

[00:22:56] if we blow up that x-ray, that bite wing, the same size, and you can see, actually see

[00:23:00] the tartar, um, gum line, then, you know, that's easy to explain where I think in the

[00:23:06] past I'd, again, have to build some sort of word picture.

[00:23:11] And if you don't believe me, then, I mean, if you can't see it, it's difficult to believe

[00:23:17] me.

[00:23:19] Here's the one thing I will also say about root planning.

[00:23:20] And this is, this is an internal systems issue on my end, but it seems, um, like I, I can

[00:23:29] get, get a lot of, get a decent number of yeses on root planning.

[00:23:33] But then the, that seems to be one of the most like canceled 24 hours before or no show type

[00:23:40] of appointments.

[00:23:41] And again, I know maybe I need to build in some money and do it, but I mean, it just seems

[00:23:44] like an appointment that gets, uh, failed or like at the last minute, they're like, ah,

[00:23:50] forget that, you know, type of a thing for sure.

[00:23:53] So, and that's a whole nother, that's another podcast, but yeah, that's another podcast.

[00:24:00] Uh, what about with some of your, um, more complex stuff you do, Kevin, like, uh, uh, like

[00:24:11] implant stuff?

[00:24:12] Tell me, tell me more about it.

[00:24:13] The implant, I was just gonna, I was just thinking about that too.

[00:24:16] It's funny you said that.

[00:24:17] So I think that the whole implant thing is a mystery to most people that, you know, it

[00:24:23] seems very straightforward.

[00:24:25] And as far as what an implant is and how a crown attaches to it, like that all makes sense

[00:24:30] to us, Dennis.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:34] Even, you know, uh, the gamut of people's IQs and whatever, you know, sort of tech savvy

[00:24:44] they are or whatever.

[00:24:45] I don't think most people get that.

[00:24:48] So, uh, I, I bought one of those implant models and yeah.

[00:24:54] That is the best way to explain everything, especially, you know, we, after we do the extraction

[00:25:01] and bone graft, we have people back four months later for an appointment we call implant

[00:25:06] planning.

[00:25:07] And that model is in the operatory and I have a song and dance.

[00:25:11] Um, but being able to see that, um, you know, if I wouldn't be able to do as many implants

[00:25:21] as we do without that model, whatever it was, was worth a million dollars.

[00:25:25] We, we bought one of those.

[00:25:26] I, when I wish I'd only wish we'd had one sooner than that.

[00:25:32] And frankly, if anything, I probably need to buy more of them.

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:36] I think, you know, under the, under the idea that like the more accessible it is, the more

[00:25:43] likely it is to get, to get talked about, you know, we've, we've talked about that offline

[00:25:48] with cameras, you know, that if you don't, you don't need one, you need like, how many

[00:25:52] rooms do you have?

[00:25:53] You need that many cameras or at least close to that many cameras.

[00:25:56] So, um, probably same thing with like implant stuff, you know, one for each hygiene room.

[00:26:00] Don't you experience that patients don't understand their conceptually what, what the implant

[00:26:06] is?

[00:26:07] And no, you're right.

[00:26:09] They don't.

[00:26:09] There's some sort of a disconnect where I think they feel like it should be like the

[00:26:13] entire structure of the tooth and the crown should get inserted all at once.

[00:26:20] Like this concept of putting in the, the root in it and then healing is, and then, you know,

[00:26:27] the whole, I don't know that, that gets a lot lost in translation.

[00:26:30] And it's very odd because it just seems like it makes so damn much sense.

[00:26:36] Um, it makes sense to us.

[00:26:38] That's the problem.

[00:26:39] But it'd be the same as me taking my car in to have something complex done to the engine

[00:26:44] or whatever.

[00:26:44] No, I disagree with that, Kevin.

[00:26:46] I, I feel like if there were some sort of an equivalent, a vehicle equivalent, I feel

[00:26:51] like you would get it.

[00:26:52] You know, like I just, I just feel like you would get it on someone or be able to like

[00:26:58] do a quick Google.

[00:27:00] Like, like I can't imagine spending, I can't imagine spending what an implant costs and not

[00:27:07] like Google, if I, if I really didn't get it or understand what the dentist said, not

[00:27:11] Googling what is an implant or how does it work and not being able to find a very easy

[00:27:16] website of like, well, you do this and you do this.

[00:27:19] I don't, I can't imagine spending that much on it and not, not to not know.

[00:27:24] But yeah, I agree.

[00:27:26] Maybe I give people too little, I give people too much, too little.

[00:27:31] I don't know.

[00:27:32] But even when we're really clear, like we're going to put your implant in it the next visit

[00:27:37] and then three months from now we'll put the crown on.

[00:27:41] Right.

[00:27:41] You know, one occasionally when we're done with the implant surgery, you mean I don't have

[00:27:47] my tooth today?

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:48] No, like we've probably said that five different times, five different ways in the consult.

[00:27:55] But you know, and we talk about that at 3D Dentist.

[00:27:59] The patient wants the tooth in the end.

[00:28:01] They don't really care about the implant.

[00:28:02] No, they're not buying an implant.

[00:28:04] They're buying a...

[00:28:05] They're buying the tooth.

[00:28:06] They're buying a tooth.

[00:28:06] And so I think being keenly aware of that as a issue or from a buyer's perspective, you

[00:28:15] know, in other words, I know what you want, but in order to get there, we've got to jump

[00:28:20] through a couple hoops, but I'm going to keep your eyes on the prize of what you want.

[00:28:25] Sure.

[00:28:26] I mean, I know you're a C-Rack user, but it's no different than when the person comes in

[00:28:31] for their crown and they're like, what?

[00:28:34] I'm not getting my crown today?

[00:28:35] It's like...

[00:28:39] You know, yeah.

[00:28:40] How many times was this explained, you know?

[00:28:44] Yeah.

[00:28:44] So...

[00:28:44] Well, you know, people hear what they want to hear.

[00:28:47] I guess so.

[00:28:49] I guess that's the take home.

[00:28:52] That's the title of this podcast.

[00:28:54] People hear what they want to hear.

[00:28:56] There you go.

[00:28:57] Any other scenarios you want to talk about, Kevin?

[00:28:59] We're just about up against it here.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:03] I think that managing the extraction patient also, you know, that takes a little bit of

[00:29:12] skill.

[00:29:14] During...

[00:29:14] For the actual procedure or for the after part of it?

[00:29:18] I think during and after.

[00:29:20] Okay.

[00:29:21] That...

[00:29:22] So, in other words, we're really clear in the post-op instructions.

[00:29:26] Here's my take on it.

[00:29:30] It's...

[00:29:31] Rightly so.

[00:29:32] I think most people are afraid of that.

[00:29:34] And I think their ability to listen is diminished just from the excitement and fear.

[00:29:41] They're in fear.

[00:29:41] They're in pain.

[00:29:42] They're in fight or flight mode.

[00:29:43] Yeah.

[00:29:43] Right?

[00:29:44] Sure.

[00:29:44] So, even when...

[00:29:45] I assume you also have written post options too, right?

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:49] But...

[00:29:49] I know.

[00:29:50] I know.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:52] So...

[00:29:52] What?

[00:29:52] I have to read?

[00:29:53] I was told there would be no reading.

[00:29:54] So, one of the things we're really clear about is that your peak swelling is going to occur

[00:30:00] 48 hours later.

[00:30:02] Yeah.

[00:30:02] Right?

[00:30:03] So, we say that verbally.

[00:30:07] It's written down.

[00:30:08] Yeah.

[00:30:08] But the number of calls we get two or three days later, everything was fine, but now it

[00:30:14] hurts like crazy.

[00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:15] We told you that that was going to happen.

[00:30:17] Oh, yeah.

[00:30:18] Yeah.

[00:30:19] Well, when will it stop hurting?

[00:30:21] In the next couple days.

[00:30:22] You're at...

[00:30:22] You know, you're at the peak of it.

[00:30:25] So, I think, again, maybe not completely understanding that as a young dentist versus now.

[00:30:32] Like, you know, that just seems normal to me.

[00:30:34] You're going to swell up more at the 48-hour mark.

[00:30:38] Is your phone team good at that?

[00:30:41] Or do you get a lot of these check extraction site, like, you know, five-minute appointments?

[00:30:46] Does that happen to you?

[00:30:48] Those come in spurts.

[00:30:50] Yeah, I know.

[00:30:50] And it's usually like, you know, a suture's loose or something like that.

[00:30:55] Sure.

[00:30:56] They come in spurts.

[00:30:58] And I think I've gotten better at managing the difficult extraction.

[00:31:05] You know, this is going to...

[00:31:07] This is a difficult extraction.

[00:31:09] This is probably going to hurt more than, you know, we would have liked.

[00:31:13] But, you know, we'll get you through it.

[00:31:14] So, you know, just setting the expectation that that can happen.

[00:31:18] And, of course, we've all talked behind the scenes.

[00:31:20] Like, we did a surgical procedure on you.

[00:31:22] Of course, it's going to hurt for a while.

[00:31:24] Sure.

[00:31:24] You know.

[00:31:25] Sure.

[00:31:26] And, you know, people's expectations of that are a little skewed, I think.

[00:31:30] So, it's...

[00:31:31] It's...

[00:31:35] I guess...

[00:31:36] I guess I take for granted how much we've learned from both the education process to get here.

[00:31:45] And then, you know, all the continuing education that we do and all that.

[00:31:49] Because it's...

[00:31:50] Yeah, an experience.

[00:31:50] It's sometimes hard to understand how someone could not get that.

[00:31:57] That's a really...

[00:31:58] That's a tough thing.

[00:31:59] I think it's one of the toughest things about being a provider is understanding how little people understand about the process.

[00:32:09] Right.

[00:32:09] I think it all comes down to...

[00:32:11] I mean, that's how we started this with the Invisalign.

[00:32:13] Managing expectations.

[00:32:15] Sure.

[00:32:16] Well, and it gets so...

[00:32:19] It gets so boring sometimes to sit there and repeat the same instructions.

[00:32:25] I mean, like I said, we talked off there about a crown prep.

[00:32:30] And I was like, well, should we talk about a crown prep?

[00:32:32] And I was talking about how, like, the whole time I'm sitting there like, okay, you know, your temporaries kind of has a matte finish.

[00:32:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:32:39] Not a polished finish.

[00:32:40] And your gum is going to be sore on the circumference of the tooth.

[00:32:43] Because I...

[00:32:44] The broken record aspect...

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:47] No one told us that was going to be part of the job.

[00:32:50] No.

[00:32:51] No.

[00:32:51] But I mean, you do.

[00:32:52] You feel like a real, you know, broken record on...

[00:32:55] So often.

[00:32:56] It's all day.

[00:32:57] Same words.

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:58] I don't know.

[00:32:58] It is what it is.

[00:33:00] That's the gig.

[00:33:01] That is the gig.

[00:33:02] And here we are talking about it again.

[00:33:04] On a podcast.

[00:33:05] And here's...

[00:33:06] Yes, here's a podcast about reliving the mundane portions of your day.

[00:33:10] Right.

[00:33:10] Enjoy.

[00:33:11] Thanks for listening.

[00:33:12] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:14] All right, Kevin.

[00:33:15] Well, we'll put a...

[00:33:16] Let's wrap it up.

[00:33:16] A cork on this one.

[00:33:17] All right.

[00:33:18] And...

[00:33:19] All right.

[00:33:21] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:21] The Facebook page?

[00:33:22] Join the very clinical...

[00:33:24] I just said very clinical.

[00:33:26] Very clinical.

[00:33:27] Very.

[00:33:27] Very finical.

[00:33:29] Very clinical.

[00:33:30] Very clinical Facebook page.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:32] Join that.

[00:33:34] You know, it's free.

[00:33:35] And we'd love to have you.

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:37] Absolutely.

[00:33:38] All right.

[00:33:39] For Kevin Fryer.

[00:33:41] For Zach Miners.

[00:33:41] We appreciate you listening.

[00:33:42] And we will catch you next time.

[00:33:44] See ya.