Very Clinical: Slow Your Roll with Dr. Melissa Zettler

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Benco-Dental believes you deserve a trusted partner, a team that makes it easier to grow and deliver the best patient outcomes.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And what could be easier than knowing everything you need is all in one place.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Expert advice, dependable value on everyday supplies, fast shipping, plus centerpoint showrooms to try the latest tech before you buy.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: An expert to help at every turn, visit benco.com and discover why 81% of their customers agree,

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Flying from Benco-Dental State practices time and money.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to The Very Clinical Podcast.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: In about the time it takes to do an MO on three, we will entertain and amaze you with tips and tricks on regular daily industry.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's Kevin and Zach.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: What is up?

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Very clinical listeners and welcome back to yet another episode of The Podcast.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: This is Zach Miners, coming to you from Kansas City, Missouri with me as always,

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I trust he co-host, Dr. Kevin, hair, fryer, Kevin, what's cracketing Cleveland?

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a cold snap right now.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Follow us in the air.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine that early, but you know it could warm up.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on in Kansas City?

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Besides what Indians feeding your Royalty right now?

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: The Indians are being the Royalty as we speak.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the chiefs home openers on Thursday.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the big deal this year.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The Thursday home opener.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to pay.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The ball season is upon us.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: We have to play the cowboys on Sunday at 425.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I hate those games.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: One o'clock or not.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We're super good like the chiefs, you get all weird times.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we're good.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You got a prime time game.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't only prime time too much, especially Thursdays, but here we are.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a continuing our changing our mind series that we're doing with the mid-career dentist's types here.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we brought in a frequent guest on this podcast network.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: A ringer?

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Melissa Zettler, all the way from Minnesota.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Melissa, how are you doing?

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing great and I just really appreciate that you changed it from mid-slash late to mid-career.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: You were going with your head.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: He changed his mind really quick.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You were going with your head.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I decided you could choose how you feel about your, are you, are you in mid or are you in late?

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how much did you get left in this gig?

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it just really is like, I'm on a day by day basis.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, it's like some days and like, yeah, I got 10 in me and some days and

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: like, can pretty much done in two to three.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there you go.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So could be mid or or trending towards late.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Depending on the day, yeah.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So if Kevin and I were to get on a jet, Melissa, and come up and visit you up in the savage.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Or drow, yeah, I guess.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Very drivable.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Very drivable.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: What would be our plan for the evening?

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Where would you take us?

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: What we do?

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It can be a twins game because I'd love to go that field.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is great.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like maybe you guys need to go to a twins game.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Because division rivals here.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a big division.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: This is an higher-alcentral rivals.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a really beautiful stadium.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Every time I see the target, we could take the train downtown and kind of see what we run into.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's fun.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Where might we do that?

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: This is stadium direct downtown.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I like this idea.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: How far is savage Minnesota from downtown Minneapolis?

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: If you were to drive maybe 40, 45 minutes.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So not that bad.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you been to a twins game, mister?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I went with my girls a few weeks ago.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it was fun.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They're fun.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The same poll Saints are fun too.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You guys might really like that.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They put on more crowd-pleasing things.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Like funny characters and games.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that your minor league back?

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's in St. Paul.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if you'd be willing to cross the river.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a river issue here in Cleveland also.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have twin cities.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We have one city with one river.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you a Vikings person?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Also do you put ball molacet or no?

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll go to a game but I don't like live for it.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like we.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first things up, Melissa on the change our mind series is to see if you have

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: a change in your thinking on a clinical dentistry item over the course of your career.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, did you have anything that came to mind that you have really changed your mind on?

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know if this is like an item so much as like a mindset.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that okay?

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's fair.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you bad?

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: When I first got done and I finished my residency, I felt like I had to like take a lot of things

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and learn a lot of things and be good and able to offer a lot of things like really, really fast.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was hard because you know these classes are stupid expensive sometimes.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And now looking back, I think that it would be much better to figure out one thing and get proficient

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and then go on to another thing.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't think you have to spend

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: 20, 30, 40,000 dollars a year on CE when you're starting out.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much available now online that there wasn't when I started out and I mean I don't know about you guys but I just really felt a lot of pressure to just learn stuff

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and be able to like do everything and keep it in house and it's overwhelming financially and mentally and looking back.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I could have way slowed that down and

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: do where were you influenced?

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, let's hear it.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You're a late 90s graduate.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that right, Melissa?

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: 95.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like especially when dental town came out there was a lot of pressure to be the dekataly and dekataly dentist

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: like they offered everything.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Was that where some of that pressure came from in some ways or?

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I did do dental town a little bit but not very much.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: For me it was more like patient driven.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's always like, you know, if you did it I do it here, if you did it I do.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I always felt like, oh my gosh, I better learn to do it so they don't leave.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I better learn to do it so they don't leave and the reality is if you let them know that it's in their best interest to do this somewhere else until you gain that competency,

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: they're not going to leave.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They're there because they want to be there.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I just think it put undo strain financially on our family and I didn't need to do it.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's go ahead and get it.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So looking at it as taking it like all at once too much if you could go back to your 1995 self.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: What order or what would you have chosen to do first or what order would you have done?

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it was wrong.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think I was trying to tackle too much at once.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I started off taking Dawson because spear was not then what it is now.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So now if I had to start over I would start with spear or pinky probably.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like coys is too much at once for a new grad like it's just like full force like I feel like spear breaks it down into more manageable units.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think learning.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Diagnosing and treatment planning skills is like a really good place to start and then start introducing other clinical skills to back it up like if you want to improve your root canal or your implants or your tissue grafting.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But until you can adequately.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Treatment plan it and then restore it in a way that's going to last a long time like it doesn't do you any good to learn those other skills.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we should mark this section of what Melissa just said and like that should be on repeat for a lot of yes because that's something in treatment planning is a skill that is difficult.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we probably all struggle with that. You don't get enough of it in dental school. That's a pretty good.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a pretty good.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't get the multitude of it that you're going to see in a private practice.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and you get so wrapped up in oh it's a broken tooth I better put a crown on it. Did you never step back and you say why is that toothbrush and why is that person need for root canal?

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Why are they having this that and the other in figuring you know slowing it down and figuring out like.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: How can I be a better investigator and diagnostician because then the other stuff will come.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think patients not everybody wants to know that stuff but boy, it seems like an awful lot do.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's in their best.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there any particular like.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like skills that you acquire like a specific skill courses or procedure courses that you would.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely do again or ones that you would pass on given the given the costs and given the how much.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It took to get proficient at him.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I did the miss continuum and then I did the Garg Mastery series and I've done lateral sinus lifts in my office and implants and.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I just kind of found with time that even though I could do it doesn't make it profitable or worth my time.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, I now I kind of limit my implants to things that I can do predictably and relatively quickly and.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like learning how to take out a tooth well and how to restore you know preserve the site well and place an implant in like.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Really, you know, I don't want to see simple because it's only simple till it's not right but.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's you know, you don't have to go out there in like level the mandible and do an all on x you just don't have to.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can refer out the lateral sinus lift and have it sent back to you for the implants.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of wish I hadn't spent my energy learning those skills because I just don't use them.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It was expensive flying to those places and doing it and sure.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say a big amen to the ones he to Z.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, cases because I find those super profitable and yes, all that other stuff can be but if you're not doing a lateral sinus every day getting the reps at that it that's difficult.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, very clinical listeners. Are you ready to add implants to your practice feeling overwhelmed by the procedure?

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Not sure where to get training. Well, we have an answer for you.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Join our very own Dr. Kevin Fryer in beautiful Raleigh North Carolina this November 4th through 8 for a week of

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Dactic and hands-on training for dental implants that will get you ready to start placing them on your own patients when you return home.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: 3D dentists is the best place to learn guided implant surgery.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The diadactic portion will teach you in traumatic extractions in predictable graphing techniques using PRF guided implants are

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to be basic and even a restorative portion designed to offer your patients the most efficient and predictable way to replace it to.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: This all takes place at the amazing 3D retreat in learning center and live surgeries take place at the wonderful and modern smile 3D clinic where you'll

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: place implants on deserving patients from the greater Raleigh area.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't miss this opportunity to add a valuable procedure to your practice.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll proceed to your patient's want. Go to 3D dentists.com and reserve your spot today.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That's www.3D Dentist.com

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's so approved myself. I can do it.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You can do it.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it doesn't make sense to do it.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We know I give that up but you feel like I spent all this money learning it.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to do it.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not. Maybe I didn't need to spend that money.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We're some of the biggest hits.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Like once you were like wow, that was a great investment. That really paid off.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That was some of the real winners.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, the implant continuum.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's gratifying. Patients appreciate it.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I like doing it. It sounds like you do also Kevin.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: People they really do appreciate if you can take the 2D out and place the implant in office.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's a really valuable surface that people enjoy quite a bit.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say after you become a diagnostician, either learning to do implants well.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean like all in excess necessarily.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: The other patients seem to really appreciate is if you can do a root canal for them.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to be too much of a specialist.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: With all the rotary, I mean come on.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I had to learn lateral condensation and hand filing.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the same thing.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And we all did. Yeah, it did stuff.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's gotten a lot better. Sure.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's gotten a lot better.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the technology for rotary and in particular has changed the game so much.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I do think that I encounter a lot of younger dentists who like,

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not doing that but I just think it's number one is a great service for your patients.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Number two, it happens enough where people come in with 2Fakes or stuff that you did.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you sure did a crown two months ago and now that's still sensitive or whatever.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I just like to be able to clean up problems.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We can be the best dentist in the world a certain percent of crowns go to the canal.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a snap.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not necessarily that you are aggressive.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're doing a crown because the tooth has history.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, usually not out there just like, hey, number three is beautiful.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's crown it.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds profitable but you're right. Not doing that.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah and people really appreciate, I'm sure you experience this too when you get them out of pain.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: They're so grateful.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And I have one patient that I did a Rukenalan in the 1997 and she still brings it up.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Remember that time you got a pain?

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, day and night like, oh, friends.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I've known you for over 20 years but I got you out of pain that one time in 1997.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Good for me.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It means a lot to people though, you know?

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It does.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, coming at a school, I think if you can take out a tooth, predictably and well and do at

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: a, do at least a basic endo, you've got to, that's a huge, you got to get the basic stem.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? You know, you're filling, do a crown, do a Rukenalan, do a Rukenalan, do a Rukenalan.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, I have a young gish dentist who will private message me sometimes for questions or guidance.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And like he doesn't do any Rukenalan because he just, he only did like one or two in school.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a different problem.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like so where do you go to do this when, like I don't know about you guys but I think I did multiple

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Rukenals to graduate including, yes, I'm correct.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean we had a whole rotation through oral surgery where we took out, I mean these probably still do, but

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just seems like they're not able to get as much in anymore.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, you're right. That's when we interviewed someone that worked at the, at one of our local dental schools, they talked about how the lack of reps has become a problem, especially in, you know,

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: advanced procedures where we hear the other day that like you take out 10 teeth to graduate something like that.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But I will counter that with you can, you could look that up on YouTube, not that you're going to learn everything, but access to something

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that we never had until much later on.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, not suggesting that you learn and do a via YouTube but there's way more content to help you out with that than we ever had.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, but you know something that's like even better in my opinion is to make a relationship with your local specialists like so when I've placed after Mish and this is before combines existed, I actually had a tomograph in my office.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: My local oral surgeon was nice of he came to my office and placed those implants with me.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And I went to his office and I watched him play some, and I watched him take out some teeth or I mean all you need to do is have one tooth you can't get the root tip out right and then we go to their office and you watch like what did they do to get this out.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can do that like make a relationship and I love it and watch these people.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I think most of us really nice and happy to do it.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, especially if you are referring, you know person and there's a relationship there for sure.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to cry if they don't get to take out, you know, a couple more teeth because now you're doing it.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: They're probably happy.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They want to do cooler stuff.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 100% too.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: What's your, you said some of your biggest hits, what was your, what was your biggest biggest money waste or was it the lateral sinus thing or did you have a different like that was the, that was the hit.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably didn't need to keep well, you know, it's always part of the continuum so I don't know if I could like cut it off at that point but I mean I did two hands on classes with it.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I probably didn't need to do that.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Kevin, do you have a C.E. miss that like you just was a was a money money bomb for you?

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that you can think of or not really if you're had not really.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Not in that way, like early on I didn't know what I was doing in terms of C.E. and it was just like trying to get the hours to satisfy the state board same but then.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, we're late 2000s around 2010 is sure so I was like I'm just I'm going to dip into each specialty and find the number one person and take their class.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And so there weren't many misses with that all of those proof to be a good thing.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like the skills there's not one that you went to and you're like, no how to do it.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Not gonna.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Not really.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you're lucky.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose I'm like though you chose.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You chose those courses though Kevin when you were you know, good solid like 20 years in.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so yeah, you you had a.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You probably had the the ability to pick and choose better than maybe Melissa did.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I choose your your one to five.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I had a better idea of what was going to work and or not that that's not the way.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you needed to earn yes.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, perfect.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Melissa. Thank you.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That was I agree. That's a good that's a good topic. There is a lot of pressure on.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Students to pick up courses when man a lot of basic school long way for.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's hard to cook every class ends with oh, you better sign up for the next one.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Now or you'll see people and they sign up for like all the classes in two weeks.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like really how are you going to go back and implement any of that like near not.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, those are just good customers for spear or coiser, you know, for sure for sure.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, Kevin any final thoughts?

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think this was.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we had a little different tack here. So I love it. You know, that was a good advice from Melissa.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoy listening to Melissa, she'll be back with us the next couple weeks for more things that she changed your mind on.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you haven't joined the very very clinical Facebook page, check it out Kevin still not charging.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Not only doing but I want people to start posting. I went back and looked at some old.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I had to look something up. People were posting all the time. We need more people posting in there.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're listening to this poster case, let's talk about something.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great idea. Perfect. All right. Thank you guys and we will see you next Tuesday.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.