Very Dental: AI with Arms and Legs with Dr. Richard Low

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[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_00] This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network. This is the Very Dental Podcast.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01] Welcome to the Very Dental Podcast, where you'll find entertaining and relevant conversations with visionaries, clinicians, and your friends in the dental space. Now, here's your host, Dr. Alan Mead. Very Dental people, welcome to another episode of the Very Dental Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Alan Mead. Again, still, it's August. I'm still sitting outside. It's a little cooler. It's a little windier.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01] I probably won't be able to do this very much more, but I enjoy recording outside when I can, and the sound isn't so horrible. Joining me, someone who's been on the show a bunch of different times, although it's been a while, I think, since I've had him on, Dr. Richard Lowe. Richard, how are you doing?

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_04] Alan, the fact that we're outside, it's like 75 degrees here. It's gorgeous. I've never recorded a podcast like this via Zoom outside or via Riverside. It didn't happen, I'm just saying.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01] So we're like literally both outside and worth it. I've recorded some, I make a point of it, but I haven't had the video capacity. Like right now, over this shoulder, that little thing that you can see right there, that is our duck house. So you could potentially hear ducks. The cats are in the barn because they are notoriously bad. I actually lost a recording because the cat jumped up on my lap and turned it off.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_01] We were talking about having backups, and it's like, honestly, having done this as long as I have, my backups really need backups, and I have them. I didn't lose the whole episode, but yeah. So their outside has a little less control of the environment, but it's nice. It's really, it is. I enjoy the chaos. It's, you know, after 12 years, it's chaos. Okay. So I met Richard about, I don't know, you were in dental school when, and you were working with Howard. How long ago was that? What year would that have been?

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_04] So I graduated 2015. So it was 2014, 2015, like the early days of dental podcasting. And I had you on lock, you know, binge listening to every episode that came out and Howard's as well as Akis. There was only a few players back in the day. And Howard, I think Howard is recording again. He is. I reached out a year ago and he was like, oh, I'm retired. Now he's back. He can't stay away.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01] I was just having this conversation. I'm going to see Rush in concert in two days. And that's sort of like, Howard is sort of like, it's sort of like, or the who. I'm talking with my cousins how the who has had three different farewell tours. This is Rush's second farewell tour. Howard had a farewell tour and he's back. I just, I saw he's still recording, so I need to get in touch with him. And in any case, you were working with Howard back then. And then you start, when did shared practices start?

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01] Richard came up with the idea of shared practices. I told him it was never going to work because it was, he had, he had too, he had too much planned. He had, he had, he had seasons, he had seasons planned that were going to cover certain things. And of course, as we talked about, I, I'm sort of, I'm sort of pro chaos in the podcasting space. I sort of podcast and whatever I trip over any given day where you actually had a plan. I told you it wouldn't work. I was wrong. It worked fine.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_04] And people would still, they still go back. We've archived that whole shit. Well, and I say we've, I have been deposed of. I have, I have divorced my ex-partners and I actually was unceremoniously not renewed to continue podcasting, nor did I get a last episode of shared practices. So I've, I've started over again. Yeah. And I still get people asking all the same questions of like, I want to own a dental practice. So I'm like, I'm just going to do it again.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_04] Next Level Dentist is the new podcast, but I'm going to do it just on playlists on YouTube. So then you can go listen to this playlist as season one. So that, that allows me more freedom to podcast about whatever I want and then just organize it. And then say, Hey.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01] What's nice about it too is like, you're not doing a lot of editing. You're not doing a lot of it. It's just sort of you're recording. I've watched some of them. Actually, you're repairing a toilet in several of them. On Instagram. Yeah. And, and that's the, I mean, like that's actually, I think it's probably smart and it's, it, it's a recognition that you understand the, uh, how can I say this? You understand the, how the landscape has changed where I've sort of stuck with the audio.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_01] Like the fact that you and I will have video here is makes my 55 year old heart kind of beat a little faster. I'm a little worried. I like, I don't use the video. I've just started to use these clips and they do get quite a bit of traction on Instagram. I just, I was like, I never really wanted to be a video guy, but the problem is, is that I don't, I don't think, I think that people still listen on audio, but there's a limited, there's just a limited, a limited audience.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_04] There's no algorithm pushing podcasts. That's what it is.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_04] And people's amount of time they've now scroll is up. And if, if you want to get a message out there, I have embraced over the last year and a half trying to figure out how to be an Instagram dentist, but I don't care about being patient facing. I'm trying to reach dentists, whether it's mental health, addiction, practice ownership, the costs of multi-practice ownership. I warn people all the time, like, don't, don't own multiple practices. Just get one large one.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_04] And then, then you'll have more problems and, and money and fulfillment that you know what to do with. Uh, if you can get to two to three doctors, why would you have a three, three different offices? Just do one large practice.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I mean, I, I don't, I have one small practice and I'm perfectly fine with that, but, but that's great. Larger practices or I'm sorry, multiple practices, which like, man, that was like, I remember, God, I remember. I should put this up again. I know I've put it up multiple times, but the Bulletproof guys were at, I think VOD two or three and they were arguing with Brian Kaleo, literally right next to where I was recording. And I said, put these headsets on.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01] And we just, we picked, we picked up in the middle of their argument and it was a great podcast, which means it's a sign. I'm going to put that up on the feed again. That's, that's a great thing about podcasts. It's evergreen. But, but what's interesting about it is, is that that was early on in the podcast space. And like, I didn't know anything about, I didn't really know anything about, and everyone was talking about multiple practices.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01] Like, like they could, like, like they hadn't even like finished, finished, you know, painting their, their new practice before they were looking for another practice. They were like, man, these guys just have more gumption than I'll ever have my whole life. That had no appeal to me ever. And, and what's funny now, I'm gratefully, it had no appeal for me ever. Right. Now you're saying you having lived it, you're like, well, maybe that's not for everyone. I'm, I think that's kind of, it's kind of cool.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_04] I've lived it twice. I did three with my first couple of partners and then walked away from those because I ran those through COVID while I was still active duty in the army. And then right after I walked away from those.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01] That's insane. I can't believe that anyone around you let you do that. I mean, what are you going to do? But that's insane. Wow. I mean, COVID broke everyone's brains without those problems, but that, oh my gosh. Yeah, totally.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_04] Well, and, and then right after I walked away from those three, my partners came to me and they said, Hey, I think we're going to merge together. We're going to do a denture and implant chain. We're going to do startups. And the way it shook out, I ended up being the CEO of it all. And we got to 35 and I, I was miserable. I hated my life and my marriage was falling apart and I was addicted to things and not proud of things.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_04] And, and just, just crumbling, utterly miserable. And I was like, how did I get here? I started a podcast in my closet. Now I'm the CEO of 35 offices and I hate my life. Like what, what was the series of events?

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01] By the way, by the way, let me just say 35, 35. Yeah. I mean, I have two children and sometimes that I think that two is too much. Just trying to keep track of two. 35 of anything is a lot.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00] It's a lot.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01] It's all my gosh. I was laughing because my son was talking about how he has a friend who has eight siblings. I'm like, I'm speechless. I'm speechless. I'm just like, so it's just like, I'm grateful that I haven't in that way have not taken on more than I can do. 30, 30 being the CEO of a 35. And I know you're not managing every practice at the same time, but the reality is there's, there's a lot of responsibility that people feel and everyone feels these things a little bit differently. Maybe there's some people built to do that, but clearly it ground you to dust. I'm not.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01] Literally, I'm hiding under my table thinking about it. So it wouldn't be for me, but yeah, wow, that is something. So you, so you're able to walk away from that in one piece and you've, I mean, you've come up with, I mean, you've over the last year, you've done a lot of coaching, a lot of, a lot of, I mean, which is, and there's a, it's, there's a weird.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04] And I would say rather than coaching, I have, this is, this is the thing I tell people. I have a men's group of dentists where I yell at them to get a six pack. And we, we bait and switch people with, Hey, we're going to help you lose a whole bunch of weight. Yeah. And then we work on every other aspect of their life, their mental health, their spiritual health, their marriages, their parenting, but people don't pay for any of that. They'll pay for the, the, the physical transformation. Yeah. And I get it.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01] And the physical transformation is a very Instagram kind of thing too. You just see a lot of, a lot of different programs for that. So I, and I get it in that that's, how did you feel? How did you feel like someone like, I, it is interesting though. How do you feel like you can be the guy that does that? If someone said, okay, what could you do a program on? I could probably help someone. I could probably help someone with, with actual drug and alcohol recovery. Maybe I could definitely teach someone how to record an audio podcast too bad.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01] That's a skillset from about 10 years ago, but yeah. But I just, how did you feel like you, you could be that guy?

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_04] So my, what helped me the most in kind of the darkest place of my crash and burn and trying to save my marriage was a men's group. It was called superhuman fathers. It was the same thing. It was a bait and switch of like, we're going to bring you in, we're going to get you a six pack and then we're actually going to work on who you are as a person, overcome addictions, people overcoming affairs or divorces or, you know, the, the trauma, you know, just the, the hardest things they've ever had.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_04] Men suck at opening up about these things. Sure. Yeah. And yet they were, they, they open up across the board. And so I saw, I actually had an endodontist friend, uh, Hunter who just did my root amp on 14 last week. Good times. He, uh, he joined with me in superhuman fathers and he's like, Richard, you need to start this for dentistry. Um, because there's something about like men, number one, we need to be yelled at. Number two, or a lot of us like need someone to smack us upside the head.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_04] But number two, when you do a hard thing together, you come out of it with a different relationship. So you think about like the army or dental school or sports teams, you know, you do something like that and you create this relationship where you can talk about anything. And so I knew the format worked even though I'm not jacked. I'm not huge. I'm not an athlete.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_04] Like, yeah, I got a six pack, but it's, it's, you just do that by cutting fat and putting on some muscle. Um, so in, in many regards, I was a nutrition science major in undergrad.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01] I didn't know that. That's interesting. That doesn't matter. So I do have some authority on the background. The background is there. Yeah. Yeah. It's what's interesting too, is that you adapted a program that worked for you and that does make a lot of sense. I mean, the reality is you didn't have to reinvent the wheel completely. You were, it was just, and you had a specific in with dentists as well. So it's kind of like a.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. Yeah. And I'd been talking to dentists for 10 plus years about practice ownership and I kind of felt like shared practices sold people on ownership, but didn't really tell them about the cost. And then the cost was their mental health, their physical health.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01] That is a very, it's a really good point. It's a really good point. And what's funny is, you know, I, I, I bought my practice, uh, let me do the math again. 28 years ago, 28 years ago, there were no podcasts. There were no, and also I was in active opiate addiction too. I mean, whatever addiction, but opiates was what got me into treatment. And, uh, I bought, I bought my practice in the middle of that. I still own the same practice. It's there, there was, there was just, there wasn't a lot like, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing at all.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01] I still, to this day, I sometimes wonder if I know what I'm doing, but it's, but what's funny is like, there's a lot of different ways to do dentistry in, in ownership is definitely one of them. There's a lot of information out there. Your point is well taken though, because every dental owner probably. Anyone who finds it easy and no challenge. Great. Good for you. You're one of those people where nothing ever is. But the reality is it's, I mean, to tell you gray hair in, in, you know, abusing drugs and alcohol and breaking up families, that'll do it.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01] It'll do it. But in the same way that honestly, I would argue probably being a, like a, someone who speaks on the, on the circuit all the time and stuff like that. There's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff that'll bring you to dust. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So there's a lot of ways, a lot of ways to wreck things for yourself if you're not paying attention.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_04] And, and I mean, and I, and I would say too, it's, it's funny that, you know, you go back to why are you an authority to do a fitness program for dentists? Ironically, when you make sacrifices and you start to control your relationship to food and start to wake up early and lean into doing hard things, well, a lot of the emotional

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04] avoidance of pain and anxiety and stress and depression that leads to addiction is running away from pain. And so we, we journal, we like look at, okay, controlling what I eat is similar to why am I, why am I binge eating is very similar to why am I looking at porn? Why am I abusing opiates? Why am I, you know, X, Y, Z that is not in alignment with who I want to be and how I want to show up.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_04] And so there's a guy today who's 51 days alcohol free. He's now this day one without nicotine. I've had a good friend who's given up opioids in this group. We've had numbers of guys who've overcome addictions they fought with for a long time, even though that's not the focus of it. It's just been really cool to be part of that. Like it's, it's been so satisfying and so fun. Gotta tell you, gotta tell you.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01] So I'm, I am a guy who, who did that and has never gone back. And I mean, that's, I'm, I'm 24 plus years clean of opiates and alcohol and all that stuff. And, and mind you, it's a huge, it's a huge thing. It's a huge thing. And, and I, but what's really funny is that taking opiates the way that I did, it wasn't, I mean, anyone who had their eyes open, it's not hard to know that that's not the way you're supposed to be living life. Right.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01] That's like, so, I mean, alcohol is tougher because it's legal and it's, and it's more sociable and all that stuff. But even then I knew alcohol was not, I, I, I wasn't someone that was going to handle alcohol well. I laugh because like, I see someone like, uh, Justin Moody who literally owns a winery. He only like literally he's, he's sort of out of the, out of the dental business into that. I'm just thinking to myself, man, you know, some people can do that. I'm not that person. No, but, but what's really interesting is that there's a lot of things and you, you know this too.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01] There's a lot of things that are not immediately life destructive that can also do similar things. I'm going to suggest that doom scrolling, um, is, is one of them.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_04] And literally gaming, gaming for me, phone and gaming. And if I pair those two together, if I've got addictive games on my phone, I don't have a satiety point. Like I'll be three, four hours. It'll be 2am. Like it's, it's not good.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01] I'm, I'm a, what's funny too, is that like, I'm not a huge phone guy. I, I, the phone works. It's not that I don't have a phone. I, and I, I certainly doom scroll, but I, I prefer to be on my computer. I prefer to have two big monitors and, you know, have multiple tabs and all that stuff. But the reality is I still get all sucked into it. And emotionally I get, I get hung up on it a lot. I mean, Instagram, I've said that said this a lot of times. I think listeners are probably tired of me. Like once you get over it, you know, we talk about enough. Once you just get over it.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01] I, I, I'm not, I don't do tick tock. Thank God. I don't really do Twitter. I'm on Facebook, but Facebook doesn't seem to have the same draw that Instagram. And I think Instagram, because it's the, it's the constant doom scroll. Like you can go forever and ever. I think that's like, I scoff at opiates and I quiver with the idea of giving up that kind of thing. And that's stupid. It's so stupid. And I even recognize it and I still struggle with it. So like, I, it's like, I kind of know these things. I know better.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01] And it's still, it's still a challenge. And I have to tell you, there are times when I think I know how, I know how opiates work for me. I just was not, I just, they were completely cut out of my life. And when someone says, well, you should just cut social media out of your life. Like, wow. Like ever since Dentaltown, which was 2002, Dentaltown was essentially social media. I've been sucked into, sucked into these conversations online for, for that long. And it's, and it's, it's an interesting thing. It's like my social life is kind of hung up in that a little bit. It's like a lot of the people that I know.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01] I wouldn't know you if I didn't have. So it's, it's a little scarier than just giving up dope is what I'm saying. It's a little scarier than that. It's funny. I got to tell you this. This is, I'm an old enough guy. I, um, my first smartphone was a droid two. It was in, it was in 20. I got it. I was 2010. I got it when my, my second son was born and it had a, it had a hardware keyboard on it. It wasn't, it wasn't a Blackberry, but it was close.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01] And I have to tell you, I can't stand typing on a phone or a tablet. I just, I mean, I have errors constantly, constantly. And there's Instagram knows me well, as all the algorithms do. I, I ordered this phone. It's not released yet. It's supposedly coming out in December. It's called a clicks. The brand is clicks, clicks communicator. Basically they're, they're sort of bringing back a, it's an Android phone. That's going to have a hardware keyboard. I couldn't be any more excited.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01] The other thing is it's got a small screen. It's the, the concept is okay. You get your hardware keyboard, which means allegedly I will have less typing errors. I'm the guy I'm like, my best friend is like, I don't care. You'll, you understand my errors. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not that guy. If I type something wrong when I'm texting and I hit send, not realizing I have to fix it in a, I can't stand it. I can't stand it. And, and, uh, and I can't stand misspellings. I can't, it just gets under my skin.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01] So I'm really excited about this hardware keyboard, but the, but, but like you said, you're excited for the ab, the six pack of abs, but the reality is you're trying to make people's lives better. I'm excited for the keyboard, but the screen is a lot smaller and it's a lot. So my hope is that this helps me now, mind you, I worry that this is methadone to my heroin addiction. I worry that it's not, it's not really the solution we're going to see. We'll see. I'll, I'll keep you posted. That supposedly comes out in December. So we're, I'm kind of, and it, mind you, any guy, anyone saying I want a hardware

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01] keyboard, you know, they're over 50 years old for sure. Maybe older. So that's, that's, that's, that's my point right there.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_04] I loved my Blackberry and I'm, I'm not quite there yet, but, uh, I, you're not, you're not

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01] itching for another Blackberry type phone.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_04] Well, so this actually segues into the AI stuff. Um, I have an app on my phone and my computer called Whisperflow. Whisperflow. Yeah. I haven't been able to get used to it.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01] Here's the thing. I can't go back. What I, what I need to do is I, for a guy who has a lot, a lot of microphones, I never quite have the right mic for it. Like I need one like I'm wearing right now that I just put on my head when I sit down. The other thing is, is that I'm so used to dictating texts. So I do the thing, period, comma, exclamation point. And, and Whisperflow doesn't want that. Whisperflow wants you to talk like a regular person. And I, I can't get there. I can't get there.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01] I've, I've, I've had it for a long time. I just don't find myself using it. So tell me how you're using Whisperflow.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_04] So I use it both on my phone and my computer. The key on the computer is setting up a shortcut that you can double click and there's hands free talk. And then you click when you're done. And I type as little as possible on my computer. I type as little as possible on my phone, on the phone, at least on iOS. I wonder if Android's better. You have to, it's not up. Okay. It pulls up the Whisperflow app and then you often have to swipe back over to it.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_04] Sometimes it clicks you right back to the app.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01] It's even, it's even better than that. If you happen to have using Bluetooth like headphones or whatever, it, it completely bricks everything. Like it can't, like you can't. So I found Whisperflow to be useless on my Android phone. Completely useless. I guess if, if I didn't have a Bluetooth headset in and I was just talking into it, it might work, but I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm in a headset all the time, you know, or, or I'm in my car, you know, all the time with, with Bluetooth. So I, but I do have it on all my, I mean, I literally am looking at right at the little, the little bar.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01] I could, I could hit it. I just don't, you need a shortcut.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04] You need, and I have like my, my center mouse wheel click is a shortcut for it. Oh, interesting. I've got a double FN on my laptop, my Mac book. And then I also, my external keyboard when I'm like docked doesn't have the FN button the same way that the Mac one does. I know, I know. It's exactly right. I like, I have a FN plus command, whatever the button has option. It's like those two, I double click that. And so I've had to tinker a little bit, but once I I've done that, I've got kind of three

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_04] different shortcuts depending on whatever keyboard I'm on. I can't go back, but I think especially once you start using AI more and the more information you give AI, the better it has like context to, to get a good result. And so I'm not going to sit there and type for five minutes. Yeah. What I'm.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01] I'm not going to lie to you. I, I, I, I, I feel that pain because when you're typing into, okay, so I do my show notes typically, uh, or, or at least I start my show notes with Gemini and I'll just upload the episodes. Oh, by the way, God, there's what's so funny about AI early AI is that everyone had an app that you had to pay for that did specific things. For the longest time I used an app called Descript because you couldn't put a, an audio file directly into Gemini.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01] You had to, so you had to script. Yeah. Descript is good. But, but, but here's my thing. I'm, I'm, I'm paying for too many of these things, especially if they can overlap. And now you're finding as you, we'll talk about it, but as you know, as they keep moving forward, each one can do more and more things. And so like, I don't use Descript anymore because I was using Descript and then taking the transcript it would give me and putting it into, putting it into Gemini or whatever. So the funny thing, it's like I have, you know, God, I, I bought a bunch of the, the

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01] note-taking gadgets, the, the hardware gadgets and I'm finding that, you know, I don't use them because they each, each one of them has their own AI. Of course, they're all using, they're all using the basic brains. You know, they're using either chat. You can shoot in one of them in, in high notes, you can choose which, which AI you're using for crying out loud. It's, it's, it's wild. But like in the beginning, everyone wanted you to buy their app and get used to it. So you wouldn't, and now I think a lot of them are becoming super multifunctional.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01] Anyhow, I, the reason I, I, I reached out to you was, was cause of that. You, you recorded a, and I think you must've gotten a lot of traction on it. You recorded a recommendation of, you know, I'm, I just talked to a dentist who, who feels really behind in AI and you gave a bunch of, a description on how, how people should be, could be, or should be using this. And I, it was a really good, I mean, I, I actually have the, I could even maybe put the audio in right here just because it's like two minutes.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_04] And it's really, I know exactly what I said. I was actually talking to James Heaton. Um, so he, he's got his own cosmetic mastermind. He's like, he messaged me. He's like, Richard, okay, just tell me what to do. And I have been down the rabbit hole the last five months and gotten lost in the sauce of like, oh my goodness, all the things you can do. And now I'm on the other side of it of, okay, there's really just two apps.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01] And let me, let me just, let me just, let me just frame it up. And like I said, I'm literally in the, in the episode, I'm going to put, put your, your thing in. So they can, I'll put a link to it too, but just so people can hear what you said.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_04] Just had a dentist text me. He's like, dude, I am so behind on this AI stuff. Where do I start? And I told him, you download either chat GPT or Claude desktop app. Pay for the a hundred dollar a month subscription. Choose one. You don't have to pick both. All, both of them have three gears. Chatbot mode, just the basic, the work mode where you start to like plug in your email,

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_04] your calendar, and you can get it to do crap for you. And then the like full on nerd mode, which you don't have to do, but once you start doing it, you can't go back. That's codex for chat GPT and Claude code for code. And he's like, well, which one? Chat GPT is faster and the codex version of it and, and chat GPT work are better at controlling your computer. They're just like faster and a little bit better. And then Claude code is a little bit less obnoxious.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_04] Like it's less of a hype man that just blows smoke and tells you what, what to do. It's going to be more honest. It's going to be a little more humble. I like how it writes better. Fable, the highest tier of Claude is the smartest one if you're building like actual apps and stuff, but they just keep updating. So like within a week, one of them has a feature that I like. The other one will have a feature that I like. So I just, I pay for both. I pay for a subscription on both the a hundred dollar pro for, for both, uh, chat GPT and

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04] Claude and I switch between them interchangeably, but everything else, ignore everything. Perplexity, GrokBot, all the Hermes. There's so many things out there. These two tools are all you need and you just need to pick one of them and get used to using it. And then if you want to switch to the other one, you just pointed at the same folder in the same plugins. And you're like, it's, it's like you didn't miss a beat. So if you're a dentist trying to figure out AI, just download one of those two apps and ignore all the noise.

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[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01] Use very ship all one word today. Basically in the real, you mentioned three gears of, and I think you mean like kind of levels of, of how much you're using the particular, the particular apps.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_04] They're literally a toggle. So you actually will download the desktop app. Okay. That's okay.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01] That's, that's, that's, that's the first thing. So you like Claude and you like, you like, uh, chat GPT. Open AI and Claude are the, you like the desktop apps.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_04] Why do you like the desktop apps over the browser? Um, you, you don't have access to what is possible with the browser. So the desktop apps of both chat GPT and Claude have the chat mode that the browser does. Okay. They have co-work or work. It's kind of the same thing. It's like now we've plugged into your email and it's got more arms and legs. Um, but when you download them, they also have a third mode, which is what developers

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_04] are using to write software. And I'm not a developer. I'm not coming from a computer science background. So it's called codecs for chat GPT and Claude code. And it's literally a toggle. You switch over and now you will point it at a folder on your computer and you say, here's your sandbox. Here's some files. I'm going to throw some files in the folder. Um, this is what we're doing here in this project we're, we're working on, uh, for instance,

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_04] um, I have one that has all of my dental podcasts that I've pulled and, you know, gotten the transcripts from my own and other people's that I really like and respect. Um, I've got a folder that has all of my favorite AI YouTubers. I don't really watch YouTube very much anymore. I will pull the transcript. I have a tool that pulls 10 different transcripts from 10 different videos and summarizes them. And then I decide the one or two that I'm going to watch.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01] Okay.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04] Um, so, but once you have them local, they can start to do so much more. They have the ability to kind of install some things on your computer. They can actually take over and control your computer. And that's scary for some people. But for me, it's amazing because there's just very tedious things that, um, you can, you can make them do. And they, and just like you said, you can start to replace all sorts of subscriptions with what really is like personalized software.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_04] So rather than having to pay for this, pay for that, you can just say, Hey, can you do this? And can you build this? And, and there's a workflow. Um, and, and, and I, and I, I, I don't want to overwhelm people, but I really want to like encourage you and Alan, like right now, you know, while we're talking, I don't know, are you on a Mac or a PC?

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01] I'm on a Mac. Yeah.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04] So which one do you already use the most? ChatGPT or Claude? Gemini. Or neither.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01] I don't use either one of them because I just, Gemini was easy to jump onto. And I have the $20 a month Gemini one and it's works great, but I've never done any, anything like you're describing. So that's why I kind of want to, I want to just hear the thought process.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. So it's, it's just, it's AI with arms and legs. And the way that I tell people to use it is download it on your computer. And at first just use it like you would the chat, just talk to it and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this. What are your thoughts? Just use it as your default chat. And every once in a while, something will come to you and you'll be like, Oh, this is this annoying thing that I don't want to do. Can you do this? And it will say, sure, here's what we need to do. And it'll go and do it.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_04] And so like, for instance, people might feel uncomfortable with this before our call, I have to wire my marketing agency some money and I didn't have them saved, but I had a thing with all of their banking router information. I threw that into Claude or into chat GPT, into Codex. And I said, Hey, I've got my Chase bank account pulled up with the recipient page pulled up. Can you enter all the details? Cause a lot of times there's like the routing and the address and this and that. Yep.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01] Yep.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_04] And I hate it. And so I was like, don't pay them anything. Just save them as a recipient. And while I was getting ready and getting my mic and all of that, it did all that. And as I hopped on in the one minute before our call, I wired off the money to pay this marketing agency and it had done the annoying work of that.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01] Sure.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_04] And so that's the kind of thing that, you know, like booking airline tickets. I now have a Google doc sheet with my info and all my frequent flyer numbers and my TSA and my wife's and my kids, you know, all the date of birth and stuff like that, that you need for a ticket. And I had to book four tickets recently and I said, Hey, research tickets on this date. This date it's for me. This date it's for my wife. Once again, I'm using whisper flow. So I just talked to her. I'm like, I got to fly to the bulletproof summit here.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_04] My wife's going on a wedding trip to Texas. We're all going as a family here. And then I'm going on this day. I prefer direct flights. You know, I kind of gave it guidance. It found all the flights for me and was like, here's the prices. And I was like, well, I tweaked one or two. And then I said, okay, pull all those up and enter all of my contact information and get me to the final stage where I have to enter credit card information. And I'll do that and click pay. You know, I don't want to pay for seats. I'm not going to do the insurance.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_04] And it did all of that. So it's like, you can start to become a personal assistant.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I've heard that. I've heard that. And I've actually, well, interestingly. Okay. So how, how much, how much do you go back to check their work? Like, like, is it, I mean, and, and how you, you've been using it long enough where probably you feel pretty confident about it, but how long, you know, how long, how much are you checking the work?

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_04] I, I won't have it do irreversible things. So like, notice I didn't have it pay anyone. No, that's right. It'll draft. I mean, you could though, right? I mean, the reality is you could have them do it if you wanted to. You could, and it might actually kind of throw a stink and be like, dude, that's, that's not me. That's you. But you can probably say, no, no, no, no. I want you to do it. But I, I will have it draft emails, but I won't have it send emails on my behalf. I want to actually go see it and read it. With stuff like that.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_04] I, I am like, I didn't go back and like check all of the routing numbers.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01] The more you use it, the, I mean, I, that's, I will say I'm, I'm using, like I said, I use, I use Gemini in the browser right now, but, but I mean, what's amazing to me is what you can upload there and what it can understand. Yeah. Or I mean, I mean, it's, it's not that it, it's not that it understands it. It does it better than I do. I mean, like, like it, not, not always. And I, but, but that's the, that's the craziest part about it. It's, I find it so wickedly useful. And, and you get into that.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01] So I'm, I'm going to obviously do, I'm going to probably try what you're talking about. It's, it's a little scarier for, uh, um, someone with, with a little more gray hair than you, uh, to do that. I'll probably give that a try, but what's interesting too, you and I talked about this and I literally have now I'm, now I'm even going, I'm like, okay, so I know what I know exactly what I'm going to point this at and see, cause it's been something I've been thinking about doing for years and never really got, got moving forward on it.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01] So I might try it with that, but the reality is, is that then this is where we were talking earlier. You can get stuck with all the, like, you're like, this thing could do anything. And then you kind of, there's a certain amount of mania that comes with a tool that as you, as you described, it's like having an employee that can do anything you tell it to, you just got to tell it to do it right. Uh, you know, and you, you get better at telling it to do stuff obviously too. And, and, and the results that it comes up with is kind of amazing. Yeah.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01] So, so then there's a certain, okay. So I got a classic example. I bought, I bought, uh, Heidi health, which is an AI that is the nice thing about Heidi is that it's, there's no HIPAA patient privacy stuff that they've done all the, the, the privacy stuff on their end. So I don't feel like, I feel like it's, it's a safe thing to use for, and I just basically take it into the room with me when I'm seeing patients in it and it generates an amazing

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_01] note, an amazing, I tweak it a little bit or whatever, but it generates a really good note better than I've ever written in my whole life. Basically I say this in, and I know that we, we had the guy who invented free day. I same story. They can do this amazing stuff. And what's funny is you go, my God, this is amazing. I can do this, but I don't use it all. I don't even think to use it all the time because you forget. And, but on some level, I think it might be healthy that I forget sometimes.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01] Cause if I got too obsessed with it, I'm not sure I could tell me about, tell me about like how you, I'm sure that when you started using this stuff and going, Oh my God, you really, it can really do this. Tell me, did you, how'd you get wrapped up in it? And how do you, how do you step away from, from that?

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. So this, this like, even, even, uh, I'm a big Alex Hormozy fan, which if people don't know, he's a business guru that's all over the place. And recently he's come out and said, all these companies are spending all this money on AI. Are you actually making any more money? Ah, interesting. Interesting. Have you moved the needle? And, and so he's like, a lot of times people get lost.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04] And I've seen this, I've seen this in myself of what's possible. And there is a learning curve too. I think there's a healthy learning curve where you're like, Whoa, this is crazy. Could it do this? And I, for a while I was like, I'm not going to build my own app. Like I'm not a developer. And then Fable, which is the new smartest Claw model came out.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01] That was the one that they were worried was going to take over the world. If I'm not mistaken. They were going to break it down for two or three weeks. And it's, it's out now. So yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_04] It's on its way taking over the world. Yeah. I talk with Fable every day. Uh, and I've now built my own app. I have just a project management app that will pull from my emails and it helps me keep track of my priorities and my commitments. It's nothing crazy or fancy, but it's personalized to me. And every week or so I'm like, you know what? Actually, I don't really like how this is working. Here's how I want it to work. And it'll go change that.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_04] And, and I've learned now tools of, I've probably watched hunt, you know, four or 500 hours of AI YouTubers. I've joined these communities and been part of it. But there's this like in the middle phase where you're obsessed, you're losing sleep. You're like, and, and when people start talking about agent fleets, I've got this like fleet of agents. I can like tell, I can see the mania in their eyes. Yeah.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_04] Um, because I don't really see it as like agent fleets and I know you can create, you can spin up these agents, which is basically just like a dedicated chat that has some context and it has some skills and it has some plugins. Like that's all in my mind.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01] My understanding is, and it's, it's sort of like what you, it does, it does stuff for you on its own.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_04] Right.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01] You kind of let it, you let it go in the world and it does the stuff that you want it to do. That's the idea. Yeah.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_04] Which like we're getting there, but a lot of times it's still not there. Interesting. Interesting. You say that. It's very, uh, generate stuff that you're like, oh, okay. So, so I see this differently. I see this as, um, when you download one of these desktop apps and you start prompting it, if you ever get to the point where you notice like, Hey, every week I ask it to help with my bookkeeping. I ask it to reckon, pull this and pull that reconcile with my emails and generate a report

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_04] or even go and manually enter it in my QuickBooks or zero or whatever. I find myself doing that every week. Well, you can take that prompt, that workflow and turn it into what's called a skill. And so a skill is just like, here's what you're going to do. Here's what you have access to. Here's the context of, you know, what's going on in the business and all of that. And it'll do that now, instead of having to re-explain everything, you just type in that

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_04] skill and say, Hey, I want you to go reconcile my books right now. So that's now a skill. Then you can schedule it on repeat and you can say, okay, every Friday, I want you to do all the work for this and give me a report and then I'll sign off of it and you, you go upload it. But that's still kind of like on your computer running on a, on a, on a cadence.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_04] And then lastly, you can move that to a cloud where now it's doing something automatically on a set schedule, whether your computer's on or off.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02] Okay.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_04] And that, and that's where I think a lot of people are into this agent realm. Yeah. But unless you're actually doing something already and it's something needful in your personal life or in your business, it's not worth turning into a skill and it's definitely not worth turning into an agent. And that's where people get lost. I'm like, Oh, well, I can answer this and do this. And, and, and even like putting your office manual in there and then having your team, like use a custom GPT, use it.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_04] I think one of the biggest things is you don't realize how much of software development. I have a friend who's built one of these dental AI tools, just like you were talking about. So much of it is like, here's my idea. We go build that idea, but then you got to go test and use it. Refining how it's executed. Yeah. This isn't great. This is kind of close, but not. And if you build some sloppy AI thing for your team and they go to use it and it kind of sucks,

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_04] they're not going to trust it and they're not going to use it. Yeah. And so there is a lot more, I think actual real world work that has to be done whenever you build something with AI that then people realize. A lot of times they just be like, Oh, here's these documents. Here's this prompt. Here's plug into this and then like, go for it. And now it's this agent that's solving all my problems. And that's just like not. Been my experience. I listened to a podcast.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01] It's, it's a Vox podcast and it's a tech podcast. I'll remember what it is. It's a, I forget what it's called. It's a bunch of really good. And, and they're the very, one of the very first segments they do every Friday is, did they even test this? Did they even test this? Yeah. What's funny is it's, they can, and it become a segment because there's so much stuff that doesn't work the way that, that it was supposed to work. What you're saying right there is like, there's a lot of work that goes into making sure it works the way you wanted it to work. That's interesting. That's very interesting.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01] And that might be the cure to the AI mania. It's because even though it can do this amazing stuff, it still requires a lot of, a lot of thought process up there to make sure it's doing it the way you want it to.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_04] And it's honestly exhausting. It's like, yeah, I've talked, I've, I've heard software developers who've said my output has like, you know, 400 X versus before now that I'm using AI, but I'm so exhausted because before I'd come up with an idea and then I'd kind of get to solve the puzzle of coding it. Yep. And then at the end you got to debug it and figure out what's wrong. And now it's just the hard thinking of the idea. Yeah. It does all the in between kind of fun puzzle.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_04] And then you got to figure out how to fix it and fix it and audit it. And I've had it build games. I've actually, I've built like now seven different games in Fable. I'll kind of have extra credits left over. And like my daughters and I have made some games and I've kind of thrown some at it just to see what it'll spin up and it'll spin something up. And I'm like, ah, it's like more work to like build the game than it would be fun.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_04] And now anytime I go to build something, I'm like, I have a very gut sense of like, oh, this is going to take work.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01] Is this going to take a bunch of mental, mental effort later? Yeah.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_04] And to check an audit, it's just like a new employee that like, if you gave an employee an instruction manual and said, go do this work for two days. And then at the end of two days, they're like, I've been working super hard. And you go and check it. You're like, you are way off base.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01] This is not what I'm doing. Oh God. That is that. Okay. So that, that cures, that cures the mania for me. Like it makes me feel my laziness is, is working in my favor at this point because it's like the kind of things you're doing. That's not really true. I, but I, I get the point. The point is very, okay. I got two questions for you. Two questions. We should probably wrap up. First off, um, I have, I have a computer down in the basement. It's a Mac studio. It's a, it's a pretty heavy duty, but it's, it was pretty heavy duty from a couple of years ago.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01] I have, I have a Mac mini at the office and then I have this laptop and it's an air. It's a, it's a decent computer. And actually it's, what's funny is even the low end air is more powerful than some of the other computers I have. My question for you is, do you have multiple computers or do you work, work off of one computer when you're doing this stuff?

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_04] I have one main computer. Yeah. I have a backup laptop. I've got a mini that I'm not using, um, workstations routinely.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_01] I do. And my thought prep, first off, I, I finally replaced a mini that I had upstairs and I mean, I have multiple places that I record. So I always needed a computer where I'm recording. Well, actually I can, with the laptop, I can do all that stuff now. And I, I, I started, I set up a dock upstairs so I can use that. And I'm thinking to myself, the consistency of having the same computer in every place, there's something to that. This is something kind of nice. And I just was curious what you, so you use one main computer and take it.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_01] And if you want to use it on a, with the full keyboard and mouse, you know, all that stuff, you, you dock your laptop. Is that what you're saying?

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_04] I do. And especially once you download these desktop apps, because once you start using codex or cloud code, you're pointing it out a folder and you're saying, this is my home.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_01] You need it to be in one place. Yeah.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. And you want to start to feed it like .md files, which is just a basic text file. It's once you're into AI, like this is the most efficient plain text file that AI just loves.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_02] Okay.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_04] And so like you can create one about yourself and your business and you can create one about your podcast. Here's what my podcast is about. Here's where it all lives. And now every time AI boots up, it knows all that stuff because it's there in your folders. But as you start to build more and you've got more files, you want it to have access to all that. So you, you want to live in one place. So I would probably just choose. That's what I thought you were going to say. Whatever.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_01] And I got to say, I'm starting to kind of move that way. Anyhow, the other, the other thing, because I, I fed your, your video into, into Gemini to, to help me generate some questions. And one question that was really good is, so in your video that we're, that I'm going to, you'll, they'll hear it. You recommend right off the bat going to the pro tier, which is like a hundred bucks a month out of the gate. So you're, you're using the desktop apps. You're using the pro tier. Why start there rather than, rather than starting small?

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01] In other words, what do you get with that pro tier that you might not, that, that is compelling to someone who's new, that would be compelling for someone who's still just learning?

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_04] I think the main thing would be if as a dentist, you start to use this personally a fair amount and you start to blow through your credit usage and you hit your five hour limit. Cause they'll give you at least in Claude, I think chat GPT codex has kind of gotten rid of that. So you can actually just keep blowing through your whole week's worth of stuff in a single day. Um, if you start running out of usage and you're just like, ah, handicapped, but honestly, if

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_04] you do it with the $20 account, it's fine. What's weird is okay.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01] So I have the $20 Gemini account. I've never, I must not use it that much or use, use it that deeply because I've not run into, I don't know. I don't even know what credits are and stuff like that with that. I, I just, I just, I use it constantly. I, I use it on my phone. I use it. So I don't know, but also I'm not, it sounds like there's some magic to the desktop app that I'm not getting. I just was curious about that.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_04] So, yeah. And, and so one of the things that people might not know is that AI has different data rates for, or costs for reading versus writing. Right. So to read, writing anything costs five X the amount of reading it. So you can give it a book, but if you asked it to write a book, it would cost five times the usage to write that book. So I have transcribed a ton of podcasts.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_04] I do that on my computer locally. And so it doesn't use any credits, but then when I have it summarize each episode, yeah, that adds up really, really, really quick. Like, um, I'll have it summarizing YouTube stuff. I'll have it creating apps. And so I guess if you catch the AI mania, you should probably do the a hundred dollar. Yeah. Um, pretty much immediately. But if you're like, ah, I've never hit the limit. You can get away with the $20 one. Um, and you're probably fine. Claude, you'll hit that a lot faster.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_04] Um, Codex, ChatGPT is a little more efficient. And really, I mean, I listened to a YouTube video on Saturday, um, talking about all these models. There's Grok and there's Gemini and there's all, it, it is really anthropic and open AI. It's Claude and ChatGPT. Everything else is dumber. It just is. And so like, one of the things I love is when people tell me all the things to ignore because it feels so overwhelming.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_01] No, that's in this, this, this space is very much that way for sure.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_04] You, there's so many tools and platforms and websites and all of that. You, you, you got to pick a lane and these two lanes are the ones that are at the cutting edge. They're the smartest and the, they're just better. Everything I've tested out, these are better is the, the desktop app of Claude and the desktop app of ChatGPT. And start with those and try not to see if you can get around not having to pay for anything else.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Um, and, and I think, I think there's, there's probably something, there's probably something to that. One of the things is like, okay, so it's, it's probably been a couple of years since my very first time talking. Like, like I talked with Michael Anderson from, um, there's so many marketing agencies. Um, that's, he was telling me essentially about, about this stuff before I ever tried it. I, I was like, I'm, you know, I'm 55 years old.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_01] This was, this was something that the kids were doing at the time. And, and, and I realized, oh my God, there's a lot here. There's a lot here. And then, and then the next thing I saw is every, every app was 20 bucks a month or something like that using AI. And it's, I didn't think that much about it, but you're, you're like, okay, after a while, everyone's got a stroke on your credit card and you're not, you're, you're just repeating. I don't know. I did just there. It's a lot of stuff that can do the same thing. And so it was just interesting that the reality is, is like, yeah, once you start using it, you realize that you don't have to.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01] And here's the other thing. Let's just, let's just finish with this. And this is, this is, this is going to take a little while. There's a lot of people that hate AI. They're very anti AI. And I, and what's weird to me is that there's a political valence to AI that I didn't really understand. I still don't really understand. But the other thing that really sucks about this is that AI is not, we don't get to turn the switch off. No, it's, it's, it's, it's not going anywhere.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_01] It's, you know, it may, it may or may not become the biggest thing or not the biggest thing. But the reality is, is it's not like just because a certain percentage of people really think AI is the wrong thing. It's, it's that horse is out of the barn. You know, I'm, what do you, what's your take on that?

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, people used to feel threatened by the Irish when they came over and it was cheaper labor and like, so it was like cool to hate on. You know, XYZ group. And then outsourcing is this, people feel threatened.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_04] Because it, it is changing the nature of work. Yeah. Just like the internet changed the nature of work, just like electricity changed the nature of work.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_04] And people are, are going to lose jobs and therefore there was a lot of hate and resentment. Um, there's the environmental things, but at the same time, like, like you said, it's not going anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, I, I think it's so much fun. I, I'm having a blast.

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_01] I do too. I like the, the work out, even, even the work output, even just for the stuff that I'm already doing with the podcast, like you, you know, you know better than anyone. Like I still do all my, I still do all my editing. I still do all that stuff, but you can imagine the difference between editing. I don't know if you remember the worst part was always the show notes. I could listen to the episodes and edit them. I loved doing that. I don't really need to do very much of that now anymore either, but the reality is that was kind of fun when I had to do the show notes.

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_01] Oh God, I didn't want to do them at all. Cause you had to figure out, well, that's they could, they do the show notes quickly, but on top of that, they do it so much better than I do. They pull out the things that were the real outline comes so much easier. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. It's crazy. And you're just like, and honestly, when I started the podcast was getting old because of that kind of work, I didn't want to pay someone else to do it a bunch of money to do it.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01] Well, literally it can do enough and I can pick up the rest. Like you said, on the end of it where I don't, I don't just cut and paste. I can edit it, but, but it's so much more. It is fun. It's really fun. And there's nothing more fun than literally having someone give you a summary of a podcast you recorded a week ago. Like, oh yeah, that was great. That was fantastic. It was like literally like a listener saying, this is the parts that I like the most. It's an, it's nuts. And I mean, like, and I'm just, like I said, I'm just doing an audio podcast for the most

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_01] part, but I just find it, I still have a hard time believing that all this can actually happen. I just know that my kids are so paranoid about it because there are so many rules about using it in school and all this stuff like this. And I'm just like, on some way I feel bad because I, they're all like, we can't do any of this at all. But I'm like, there's so much benefit to you. It doesn't mean you got to have it write your paper, but boy, I'll tell you what, pretty good at helping you write notes. That's not against the rules. I mean, it's pretty, it catches stuff that you won't. I'm trying, you know.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01] So, so on some level for someone who hates it for political reasons, because I think there's a lot of political reasons. I, my suspicion is a lot of the college students that are protesting it are also using it. That's my suspicion.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04] I don't know that, but I suspect that's what's happening. You got to be a hundred percent correct in that. My daughter, she's an artist. She's a brilliant artist. She's 13. So talented. And like, you, you wouldn't believe I'll send you some stuff afterwards. And she's very like anti-AI.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01] I could see that for artists too. I could see that for artists. Honestly, AI, probably, probably the worst usage of AI is, is a lot of the visual art stuff because for whatever reason, I feel like there's a certain, maybe, maybe it's going to get so good that I won't feel like, but I can always kind of see when something's AI. Like we had, we were at the, we were at the fair. It's really funny at the Midland County fair. And there was a new ride and the ride, of course, you know, the fair rides have lights

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_01] and big bowl sort of, you know, billboards, essentially all kinds of images and stuff like that. And every image was for sure. It was like that, that had that AI sheen of crazy eyes and stuff like that. And everyone in the line was like, yep, that's totally AI. That's in it. So I think, I think people can see some of it. And I think people are a little, little tired of the slop. The problem is, or, or the solution is at some point, it's not going to feel like slop anymore. It's going to be good. But it's probably there in a lot of cases now, right now it's cheap and easy to have

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01] it make really good illustrations that look like AI slop. The question is, does, does it get better? I mean, honestly, we're only into this for what, two years or something like that. When, when, when did, when did they release the original chat GPT? I think it's 2023. I think it's three years.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01] Think about that.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_04] And, and, and the, the stuff that Fable will put out, like the latest cutting edge frontier models, like it's ridiculous what it can do. Yeah. It's expensive. Yeah. But compared to, compared to what? And so, you know, I, I've heard someone say that if AI stopped developing today, we would continue for the next 20 years to, to figure out uses of it in its current form today that would revolutionize our, our world.

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_04] And so that's assuming no further development occurs.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_04] And, and so this is our world. And, and I think the easiest entry to fluency is downloading one of these two desktop apps. Okay. And, and, and choosing, cause the other thing is bet on one of these two horses. And once you learn one, you can swap to the other. Yeah. Yeah. It's the exact same thing. You can point it at the same computer on your, on your, the same folder on your computer. You can, they can teach each other the same skills. And so open AI and Thropic are, are the big dogs.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_04] So why not use kind of one of those two and just start, even my wife, she's now, she's a PSG president and she's used chat GPT for a lot of things. So she's PTO PSG, PTO president for the school. And she had to prepare, she's handing the torch over to a new PTO president. Cause she's going to the middle school and from the middle school. And so she had a bunch of their books to reconcile. Yeah. Big old list of like, she took notes on some things.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_04] She typed out some other things. There was bank stuff over here. And she's like, I need to reconcile with a big spreadsheet, all of this. And then I want to generate a report and I want to generate, you know, like for the school and for the PTO. And if you try and do that just in chat on chat GPT, it, it can't like, it'll start to do weird stuff and you're not in control. And we did it on the desktop and she like loved it. It still took some iteration, but it did hours of work.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_04] And this is not some, I'm building an agent. It's just like, it's just a really, really good, smart person. That's healthy. Same thing. Cookbooks, all of her cookbooks, she wanted to reformat all of her personal recipes. We had it like look up the, cause I'm doing, you know, tracking food and stuff. It looked up the macros per a hundred grams and like verified the serving sizes and like changed it. And then she gave it as a wedding gift to her niece.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_04] And because she was doing it with the desktop app, she actually had a lot of control over it versus you try and do it on the chat. It does weird stuff. That's very interesting.

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_01] I got it. That means I got to try it. That's, that's cause that's maybe the limitation. I'm, I'm running into. I mean, not, not that I'm feeling limited by it, but it's, it's interesting that you say that Richard, this was really good. I mean, it's not like we don't have things we could talk about, but I wanted to get to this partially, mostly cause you're, you're that video sort of stimulated some stuff in my brain. We got good stuff here. I mean, we'll have to come back and after I've had a chance to play with it, you can, you can help me, help me figure out better stuff. But this was great. I really appreciate you being on.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_04] Thank you for having me. And my goal is to like, figure out what is the actual useful stuff and be useful on Instagram and we're rebooting the seasons and all that. So I'll be here. If you ever want to talk some more, we can, we can jam out again. Very good. Thanks a ton. We'll talk to you soon.