Very Dental Classics: The Legacy of the Vedder Society

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[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02] Head to net32.com slash verydental and see what your practice could be saving. This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network. Very clinical listeners, this is a throwback episode of the Dental Hacks Podcast. Actually, it was an episode I recorded several years ago when the Francis B. Vedder Society, my study club up north in Michigan, was celebrating 60 years.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02] So I did sort of a live podcast. And since I talked a bunch about Vetter in today's episode of the Alan Mead Experience, I thought I would put this one out there just as a throwback. So I hope you enjoy it. And we'll catch you next episode.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03] This is the Dental Hacks Podcast. A podcast created by dentists for dentists. Now, sit back, relax. You're about to be hacked.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02] Dental Hacks Nation, welcome to episode 260. That's 260 of the Dental Hacks Podcast. My name is Alan Mead. Yay, 260.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_19] Hey, I'm Jay Lips. Jason, what's happening? Not a whole lot. Just got done installing some EagleSoft on some computers. So is this in the new office that you were? It is in the new office. Okay. And you said it went sideways. So tell me everything. Talk to daddy. It wasn't that complex. Just we're in that strange timeframe where we really want to start working so we can pay all this rent that I've been paying for three months. Yeah, I get that. I understand that.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_19] And whether we're going to have a certificate of occupancy. So can we open? Can we not?

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_22] What does that mean? I don't even know what that means.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_19] I don't know if I have a certificate of occupancy. I'm kind of freaking out now. You probably don't. I'm calling Saginaw. That's it. Shut this guy down. Shut him down. I'll do it. But as you get closer to the end of the construction, you can start moving in some equipment and they have to do their final inspection. So the county will kind of give you their blessing that you can do some works there. And it's safe. Is it safe? Is it safe? Is it safe? Is it safe?

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_19] So hopefully we'll be getting our certificate, our CO, Certificate of Occupancy, and we can start doing the works. The works. Start drilling, filling, and billing. So I have had some new patients call already just driving by and seeing it. So that's a good sign. That's a really good sign. Actually, that must make you feel as good about any of it. Yes. Yeah. This location, I'm in hopes, will be not as lackluster as my other location.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02] Well, no, that's awesome. I mean, it's kind of exciting, but I know that it's also like, it's so funny. There's that valley from the great idea to the execution of the great idea. And the valley is like the low point of all the bullshit that you have to go between the idea and the execution. So you're climbing out of the bullshit valley right now. Yep.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_19] Like today, we have one of those handpiece treatment things that you plug your handpiece in and lubricates it. And it needs air. And we're going to install it today. And oh, they didn't put air right there on that countertop. So it's just the little things that you don't find out that you assume are there every single time. It's something. They call that a work order.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02] And the work orders, they love those work orders. Bring on the work orders. Yeah. Yeah. That's the worst. $1,000. Yeah. Yeah. And it's always $3,000. It's never 25 bucks, by the way. It's always $3,000. I know I've complained about this on the podcast, but I'm going to take this moment to do it again. My plumbing estimate was literally 100% more than what they quoted.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_02] And when I asked them, why is it so much more than you quoted? Why didn't you tell me? And they just, this is how it always works. I mean, we quote it. And then, of course, we just do more. I'm like, so the money just falls out of the sky then. It's, oh my gosh. They were, I literally, I was like, okay, you have to be kidding, right? Because the estimate was, you know, this. And I don't remember exactly what it was. I remember it was twice as much as they'd estimated. And I'd set aside the amount they estimated. Silly me. I should know better.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02] As you know, it's just like. Don't do that. There was someone on the Dental Hack Station asking, they had $100,000 to kind of do something with. I can't remember. Vacation. Like they're opening a new practice or whatever, and it's $100,000. What should I spend it on? And of course, a lot of people had suggestions of CBCT, electric handpieces. And those are all good things. But someone suggested wisely, hang on to it. You're going to need it.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, I think you would probably, you'd probably verify that statement.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_19] Yeah. I mean, and a lot of people are saying we're heading into a recession right now. So when you're heading into a recession, cash is always good to have because you never know when it's going to hit the fan. And if you want to invest in something, then stuff gets real cheap real quick. And you can pick up some good stuff. For sure.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02] Now, there's a lot of indicators about the upcoming recession. I've heard a lot of them. But the most reliable one, Jason's opening a practice. That is the most reliable every single time. 100%. Every time. Yep. Thanks.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_19] I'd forgotten all about that until now. So just thanks for that.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02] Time for the big short. Hey, by the way, I saw the big short on the way out to the Spear Summit a couple weeks ago on the plane. That's a great movie. Did you ever see that?

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_19] Rich Roosevelt?

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02] No.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_19] I get it. Sorry, Rich. I love you.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02] It was such a good movie. I want to see it again. I think I've seen like five times. I just love it. It's a great movie.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_19] Yeah, it's a good movie. There's another one. There's a documentary about on which that is based. I can't remember the name of it now. Matt Damon narrated it. Yeah. And it goes into the whole history of the whole financial collapse. But yeah, that was really interesting too.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02] The podcast that's called Planet Money. It's a good podcast. It's like an NPR podcast. Literally started as reporting on that recession. It was amazing. Honestly, it's like I had not, you know, the housing bubble was pretty obvious to a lot of people, but they reported on it as it happened. It was, I don't know, it was a really good movie. I think the movie was relatively accurate. I think that, I think I'll figure out what that movie you're talking about or the documentary you're talking about. Because it's, I don't know, I just find that interesting.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02] And I did hear that right now we are literally looking at the exact same thing where, where the housing market is essentially doing the same thing that it was back in 2008. Yep. So yeah. Awesome.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_19] So keep some, keep some cash around if you can. Seriously. Hold on to, take that vacation, but take a cheaper vacation. Under your mattress, man. That's the place for it. Don't be like me. Yeah. Or start a practice. Another practice. There we go. That's, it's the Lipscomb way.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_02] Yep. So.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_19] Wait till, wait till it's all everywhere.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, exactly. I had it. I had a interesting thing today. I, I had a, I had a good day. Like I had an epically bad day earlier this week, but I had a, I had a good day today. And what was really funny was I, I spent a lot of my time explaining stuff to patients, just explaining like, like the no pressure. Like I didn't, I really and truly didn't care what the patient did. I wanted to explain the pros and cons of the options. And it was, it was freeing because it's, I will say that when you don't have to,

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02] when you're not super motivated by, I don't want to do any treatments. What I really want to do is sit in my office and drink coffee. So, but I mean, so, but as someone else, I think Gary DeWood always, I want them to kind of beg me to do it before I do it. I want them to know everything and make the choice and say, no doc, I really want to do it. Cause that, that is like such a freeing experience rather than me trying to explain to them what they need. That is the, that's much harder, especially when they're looking at you skeptically with their arms crossed, tapping their toe. They usually tell me what they want and then I talk them out of it.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_19] No, you don't need those veneers. That would be great. That's my kind of practice, right? That would really, that would really help my bottom line. But why would I, why would I encourage you to do that? No, not at all.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02] I do an occlusal amalgam and call it good. I don't know. That's just, so I wrapped the week up better than, uh, better than I started. So that's, that's not a bad problem to have. Right. Good on you, Alan.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_19] Yeah, I did.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02] I did.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_19] Alan's new podcast, the recession proof practice.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. The recession proof practice is one that doesn't do anything, but also has no debt. Yep.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_19] It doesn't go up. It doesn't go down. It just doesn't. It just stays right there. Just, it just does. The little practice that could.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_02] So I had, uh, last weekend, I'm going to tell you guys about my self-indulgent podcast this week. Um, I have talked to Jason multiple times on the podcast about my study club called the Vetter Society. Jer. I knew it was coming. I just, I'll just, I'll just pause for you to say that. Whenever it'll be. It's like a drinking game. I know she's so clear. Every, every time. So this is a drinking game for the dental, dental hacks podcast.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02] Every time you hear the word Vetter, you have to break out into a song. I would, uh, my preference would probably be ever, uh, what's the, what's the song? Um, even flow. That's my favorite. I like even flow. Even flow is my favorite, my favorite song. Might be singing that at karaoke at the, uh, there you go. There you go. I had a couple of songs this week. I thought about, I think, uh, I think the cars, uh, cause, uh, Rico Kasich died last week. And, uh, so I listened, so I listened to a bunch of cars songs the last week or so.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02] I'm thinking those would be really good. They wouldn't be hard at all. Just what I needed would be really good. I don't mind you coming here. Wasting all my time. Chime. Yeah. So I, yeah, we have to do karaoke again. Voices of Dentistry. I mean, sure. Come for the speakers, come see the podcasters, but mostly come for the karaoke. Let's be honest. That's what you're coming for.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_19] When is that Jason? Maybe Lance will do that. That sweet, sweet. Fandango again.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02] Maybe Lance will dance. We can always, we can hope we can hope the Lance dance.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_19] I was at the 24th and 25th of January, 2020 Scottsdale, Arizona.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02] Go sign up the place. It's the place. It's the Hilton Scottsdale resort and villas place with the rooms.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_15] The rooms and the eating the pudding and the Jell-O pudding pop.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_02] So, yeah, that's good. Good. We got the Bill Cosby in excellent timing was fantastic. I think he's being sentenced next week. Hashtag not a supporter. So, yeah. Come to voice of dentistry. Voice of dentistry.com is where you can find out more information. You can buy your ticket. You can get your room. You can see who's speaking. You can, hey, it's going to be fantastic. It'll be number four.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_19] Fourth time's the charm, I say. You know what? This is a conference put on by practicing dentists. Skeptics who are sick of the standard type of dental meeting. Who want extra specialty. Skeptics of everything. And, you know, we're the straight shooters, you know? We'll keep you going. And also a great community of people. So, every time you come, you're going to find a friend.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_19] Thank you for being a friend.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_02] Essentially, we're talking about the official meeting of the Dental Hacks Nation. Yes. And all the best Facebook, dental Facebook groups, that sort of thing. So, you can see the people that you're, that you know online. Dance. You can dance with Lance. Dance with Lance. That's the hashtag. That's the hashtag.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_19] VOD 2020. Dance with Lance. This is where the magic happens, people.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02] So, hashtag dance with Lance. Anyhow, so, the Vetter Society, we had our meeting last week. It was the 60th anniversary of this study club. Which, when you think about it, that's pretty cool. 60 years of a study club. It's a study club I've been going to for the last 20 years. And they invited me to do, for their banquet, celebrating 60 years, they wanted me to do a live podcast. So, I didn't remote Jason in. Because I'm a bad podcast hosting buddy. I know. I deserve all of the scorn.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02] I really did. But, so, what I did was, I had a chance to kind of talk to a bunch of the study club members about what it meant to them. A 60 year long study club. And there, literally, there was one guy there. Yeah, they had to serve food. They did serve food. They did serve food. 60 years. 60 years worth. Yeah, exactly. One of the originators. One of the original guys. One of the original people of the study club was there. Can you believe that? It's like he was in.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02] Dr. Methuselah Johnson. It was amazing. It was really cool. So, what I was surprised about was how many funny stories came from. You got to keep your ears open for the Bill Strupp story because it's really good and kind of profane. And a lot of emotion, actually. A lot of people that this study club has really meant a lot to them. So, we did this. I thought you guys would enjoy hearing it. Before you even go there, check it out. VedderSociety.com. And I'm going to put the dates of next fall's meeting up.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02] Because anyone who wants to come, you're welcome to come as my guest. We'll have a good old time up north. So, it's fun. That even includes you, Jason. Even you. Even me? Even you. Dang. It's pretty great. Fall in northern Michigan is pretty great. So, sit back. Relax. Max, take a listen to the 60th anniversary banquet of the Vetter Society.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02] Honestly, is there anyone who has contributed more to dental social media than Dr. Artie Volker? I don't think so. Artie puts out really great stuff. Cases and all kinds of stuff on social media almost constantly. He's a great clinician and a really nice guy. And everyone who knows him is like, yeah, that guy is the real deal. He is offering a course that they're calling Power Looking. Interior Direct Composite at Cosminent. It's coming up November 14th and 15th of this year.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02] So, it's a month or so away. It's Artie's first course at Cosminent that he's teaching himself. It is amazing what he's going to cover in a couple days. A lot of hands-on stuff. From the basics of anteriors, which is like contour and color all the way to layering. Some mono shade stuff. Polishing. He's got a bunch of tips. If you're interested, just go check out the Clinical Hacks or Tomorrow Tooth or Ripe. All these Facebook groups. He's got stuff all over the place. Nicest guy you'll ever meet.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02] And giving an amazing course at Cosminent. Of course, it's overlooking Michigan Avenue like all of Cosminent's courses. Really good stuff. Go check it out at dentalhacks.com slash Artie. A-R-T-I-E. Power looking. You're going to learn anterior composites from one of the best and one of the best guys you'll ever meet. They're doing some amazing things over there in Chicago. Thanks a lot for supporting the show, Cosminent. Dental Hacks Nation. Welcome to a very special episode of the Dental Hacks Podcast.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02] My name is Alan Mead. I am one of the co-hosts of the Dental Hacks Podcast. Today, substituting for my stalwart companion, Dr. Jason Lipscomb, I have several illustrious co-hosts who I will introduce in just a moment. But I'd like to paint a picture for the listener who is listening to this podcast right now. I want to paint a little picture.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02] Now, I'm sitting in Bel Air, Michigan, in front of a group of, what do you think, about 100 or so people? Dental people. And we have just had a good day of continuing education. Listen to a lecture. And we're here to celebrate the study club, the society, if you will, that we've all been a part of. And this society has been going for 60 years.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02] 60 years. I think that deserves a round of applause right there. 60 years. So, what's really amazing about this study club is how it's become a part of my life. And I think it's become a part of a lot of people's lives. And I wanted to, there's a part of me that wants to merge my internet friends who are listening right now, podcast listeners, with basically my C home here at the Better Society.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02] So, I want to tell a little story. And I'm hoping that this podcast can actually include all of us a little bit to tell a little bit of a story about what the Better Society has meant to you over the years as well. So, there is a little bit of me that wants my dental podcast listeners to understand what an incredibly valuable resource that the Better Society has been. I've talked about the Better Society on the podcast.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02] It kind of glancing blows multiple times, a lot of times. And I think it's sort of this thing that they know it's a study club of mine. But it really, it's bigger than that. And I'm going to start with a story. So, I'm going to paint a picture. It's 1997. It's early fall. I had just graduated from the University of Minnesota School of Dentistry. I literally, someone's clapping for Minnesota. Wow. I thought I was the only dentist in Michigan who had graduated from Minnesota. That's amazing.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. So, I literally didn't have a license yet. I think it was in the mail. I was working in dad's office in a different capacity than as a dentist. I was running Ethernet cables under the floor of his office, actually. A slightly less honorable position. And he tells me that I'm going up north with him. We're going to take a class. We're going to go to this Better Society thing. And I had no idea.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, I'd literally just gotten out of dental school. So, what do you know about continuing education? Not very much. So, we come up north. It was in Shanty Creek. So, literally the same place we've been coming up, you know, more or less for the last 22 years. And I sit down and we have three days with a guy you may have heard of, Dr. Frank Spear. And he essentially gave, I looked at the title earlier. It is not Facially Generated Treatment Planning. I thought it was. But it's the same course. He just didn't call it that.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02] It's the one that you can go out to Spear and take the workshop in and all that stuff. So, as a brand new dentist, seeing that this is how dentistry is done. Seeing Frank Spear show all this amazing stuff. I'm like, wow. I didn't have any idea that that's how dentistry could be done. And as a side note, that happens a lot at the veteran meetings, right? You see these amazing clinicians doing things that's essentially aspirational dentistry. It's really fantastic.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02] So, my very first continuing education experience was at the veteran meeting in the fall up here with Dr. Frank Spear. Now, fast forward 22 years. I had the honor of, with my podcasting co-host, we were at the Spear Summit last weekend. We had a chance to podcast with a bunch of all these Spear all-stars. And literally, like, one week ago, we sat down face-to-face and we got to interview Dr. Frank Spear. And I thought to myself, that's pretty cool.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02] You know, 22, a circle of 22 years. The very first continuing education experience I ever had here at the vet was Frank. And then I got to the interview. And that, what's interesting is the podcast. Our original concept for the podcast was sort of based on the dinners we would have after veterans. Where you go out with your friends to a good restaurant and you always talk shop. I always thought that'd be a really great podcast for a dentist to listen to.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02] And literally, that's how the Dental Hacks podcast sprung into being. Essentially, I wanted to make it into something like that. So, if you're asking me what the Vettors Society has meant to me, it's meant an awful lot. Because, I mean, I don't miss it very much. And we're here twice a year, every year for the last 22 years. I only missed a few of them and it's meant a ton to me. And so, I kind of want to spend a little time talking about what the Vettor Society has meant to you.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02] And I guess my first co-host that I want to hand the mic off to is Dr. Howard Hamrick. He's been here the whole time that I've been coming. But he and I talked a little bit about it. He was going to fill in some of the holes on sort of the history, kind of where it came from and all that stuff. So, Howard, why don't you give us a little background there?

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_08] Thanks, Alan. My first experience with the Vettor Society, we have a senior award, a fixed prosthodontist award. I'm standing up now because I never sit when I talk to a group. And I wander around. So, I have to have a wireless mic. So, I heard in my last year at Dental School of Michigan that I had won the Vettor Society Award.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_08] At that time, it was presented at the March meeting, like it is every year and has been since we've initiated it. Unfortunately, I was doing research at the time and I was at an IADR meeting in March. It conflicted. So, I never came to pick up the award from the Vettor Society. And after coming back to school and graduating and enrolling in the Fixed Prosthodontic and Dental Materials Program, I got the award.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_08] And then everybody at the school, it was kind of common that if you were teaching in the Department of Crown Bridge, that people like Joe Clayton and Chuck Fuselier, who's here, want to thank him for coming, and Russ Anderson. You were told that you were supposed to be a member of the Vettor Society. And so, it was very common in the faculty, and Joe Collins here, that you were going to be a member of the Vettor Society. And you should join. Well, I thought, well, I got the award, so I must be a member.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_08] Well, no, you can't be a member unless you get two letters of recommendation, Dick McPhee tells me. And you have to attend two Vettor meetings. And you have to have all these CE credits. And I go, oh, okay. So, I did that and became a member of the Vettor Society. And then I met Bill Avery, who's a longstanding member, who's passed since this point in time. And I was helping Bill with audiovisual.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_08] So, all of a sudden, you know, you become part of the community, and you become part of the Vettor Society. And then you meet all the great ladies and gentlemen that we have in this society. And you move your level of understanding of fixed prosthodontics and the camaraderie and the help and the encouragement you get from your colleagues to a new level. And that's what Vettor does.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_08] And that's what Friends to be Vettor was all about, if you look at his opening remarks from the inaugural meeting we had here. And I don't think the only person we've never had here that's one of the big foremost speakers in the area of fixed prosthodontics was the fellow from Panky Man. And we tried many years to get him to come. He has since passed on.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_08] And I'd say of all the big names we've had at this organization that have spoken in Chicago, have spoken all around the country, all around the world, that's the only person we never were able to recruit and didn't like to leave Florida. And that was why. Thank you for your attention. Of course. Thanks, Howard.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02] So, that's fantastic. It's an easy segue because one of the things that if you're not familiar, this is the only study club I've ever actually belonged to. I know there's a lot of different ways study clubs can happen, smaller groups, bigger groups. This is the one I know the most. And, like, I didn't realize that other study clubs didn't have John Coyce, like, showing up at their meeting.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02] Or you didn't see Okuson regularly or Terry Tanaka or Gerard Sheesh or, I mean, honestly, Jeff Rouse. I can go on and on. I literally can. Now, it's literally a who's who in fixed process and restorative downstream. And it better gets them all. Now, for a listener who's unfamiliar with what we're talking about, I always, there's a certain value proposition to the better society that people don't understand.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02] Typically, when you go see these people speak, you're paying an arm and a leg to go see them. Being a member of the better society, one of the best parts about it is the dues are relatively low considering the value that you get. One of my mentors, Dr. Joe Carlow, always says if you're a member of the better society, you get all your CV. If you show up to the meetings, your CV is covered because it ends up being about 60 hours in three years, which is what Michigan requires. It's a huge value. I'm just going to say right now, I hate to be salesy. Go check it out. Go check it out. VedderSociety.com.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02] It's worth a look. It's worth a look. We should try and get a complete list of all the people that have spoken with the better society on the website because that would draw like crazy. I want to hand the mic over to Ralph Sylvie, Dr. Ralph Sylvie. Now, I was on the executive board for a little while with Ralph. And he's been doing this. He's been coming for a little while. I know you were big on the constitution and bylaws. I'd love to hear your background. What is the better society meant for you?

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_04] Well, I guess the better society started out as just a very vague kind of club that apparently all the Crown and Bridge instructors belong to. Because when the spring meeting came along, it was always on a Wednesday. And it was on a Wednesday because that's when we didn't do Crown and Bridge in the clinic. So, you know, you can see the relationship there.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02] And it's worth mentioning that there's a specific connection to the University of Michigan on that. Like, essentially, Francis B. Vetter was in PROS at the University of Michigan. Right. So, I think some listeners may not realize that it kind of started there. None of my University of Detroit people are allowed to be mad at me for saying that. It's just true. But, I mean, it's kind of turf war here in Michigan if you don't know that.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_04] Well, I can remember being a student. And the better society hadn't been meeting that particular day. And I asked one of my friends, I said, what the heck is the better society? And he said, well, it's a study club and they've invited five of us to attend the spring meeting. And I said, oh, that's nice. They didn't ask me.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_04] And so, anyway, that was my first exposure to the better meeting. It was just kind of floating out there. It was some concept that I had no idea what it was. Well, come graduation, I was asked by the operative department to teach in the afternoons. And that left my mornings open.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_04] So, I went to see Dr. Myers, happy head of Crown Bridge Department, and asked him if possibly I could teach Crown Bridge. And if you didn't know Dr. Myers, he was one of the kindest generals we have ever had in dentistry. So, anyway, he did allow me to teach Crown Bridge. And I enjoyed it so much, I applied to the program and was admitted the next year.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_04] And then, I really got to see the value of Dr. Lorry. Now, Dr. Lorry had a thing about the better society. He thought anybody involved in the Crown Bridge Department should be a member. And the fall meeting was coming up. He came back into the lab, and all four of us grad students were there in the lab. And he said, okay, guys, how would you like to join the better society?

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_04] Well, by this time, I knew what the better society was. It was, we were going to have a fall meeting there, I think it was about two weeks distant. And Charles Stewart was going to be the speaker. So, we ended up coming up to the meeting. And at that time, they also gave table clinics. And it was just extremely impressive.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, you just got to see a giant in the field of Crown Bridge. And he was a real showman. I can remember him sitting in a, we had a break there, just like we do now. You know, you get tired of sitting there listening to someone spout off. So, I can remember him sitting in a chair. Charlie Stewart was sitting in a chair. And everybody had to go right past him to get into the hallway to go to another room, right?

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_04] He's got a necklace of teeth around his neck. And he says, these were monkey teeth. And he's showing anybody that gets close to him. He says, see this little groove here? See that abrasion? Do you think that monkey ever brushed his teeth to cause that toothbrush abrasion? At the time, it was a big argument whether toothbrush abrasion was really an ab fracture. Let's be honest. What's that?

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02] There still is a big argument, let's be honest.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_04] Well, that was my first exposure to this ab fraction idea. And then, I know this is getting off the better society, but I can remember seeing a patient. They'd come in and they'd have two porcelain jacket crowns on their upper front, on their upper incisors. And you go up there with an explorer and you find this big trench that, boy, it felt like the shoulder was prepared down there.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04] And he was only two millimeters short. I've had those days. Guess what? When I was in practice for about 20 years, I had one of my own patients sitting in the chair. I'd done those central incisors. And I'd miss that margin by two millimeters. So, I believe in ab fraction. It's awesome.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_04] That's what the society has meant. It's exposing you to ideas. It's making you go home and look at your practice and say, Am I really doing what I should be doing? And it's of great value to any dentist, any part of his career. And I just hope we continue for another 60 years. That's amazing. Thanks, Ralph.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02] Something that I think about, like, okay, for 22 years or so, I've always had this in my brain, this CE calendar of mine. And it always was, you know, you'd start the school year, and then September, October, you'd have the fall meeting. And then you'd have February, you'd have the midwinter, because we always used to go to the Chicago midwinter and still do. And then you'd have the March, you'd have the spring meeting for better. And then you were off for a little while until fall.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02] That was kind of my CE. And it was like, it was on the calendar in the same way that, like, Thanksgiving and Christmas were, because it was a fixture and it was kind of a holiday. It's definitely, I mean, it became that part of my life. You already know Crazy Dental has practically unbeatable prices on everyday dental supplies. But how do we make that deal even sweeter? Free shipping. Jump over to crazydentalprices.com, fill your cart, and enter promo code VERYSHIP, all one word, at checkout.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02] That's VERYSHIP, all one word, to wipe out shipping costs on every single order. Even better, using that code directly supports the Very Dental Podcast Network. Stock up, pocket the savings, get free delivery, and help back the show. Use VERYSHIP, all one word, today. I like the speakers. The speakers are amazing. The lectures are amazing. I really liked going out for dinner afterwards with my dad and his friends from dental school and telling the stories.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02] And I mean, I know that there's a lot. I'm not the only person that's experienced that. I mean, I know there's all kinds of people that see their friends from dental school or see their friends from work or whatever in a different setting than they normally do. So it's just, I don't know, I've always found that to be one of my favorite parts about the meeting. So I have another friend, Doug, I'm going to put you on the spot here. Dr. Doug Henke. He's been on the committee with me forever, too. I think you're the treasure for life at this point, Doug.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02] I possibly am.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_06] I'm not sure if that's the truth or not, but I'm okay with that.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_02] So Doug, tell us a little bit about your experience with the veteran and what it's meant to you.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_06] Well, when I came out of dental school, my junior year in dental school, I got real excited about prosthodontics and I was at Michigan and I started hanging around the cross clinic. And one of the guys who was really, we had Bob Lorry and Merle Jarda, which were preclinical instructors. And they were really sticklers and they were strong, but they were fair, I guess I would say, you know.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_06] And when I got into my junior year, I started thinking, man, I want to see what I'm going to do, you know, I didn't want to do endodontics or any of those things. And so I started looking into the prosthodontic profession or specialty. And Jack Edge was my senior clinic prosthodontic instructor. And Jack had come from a military background, smoked like a chimney. And he'd always leave the clinic to go down and smoke.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_06] And then he'd come back up and he'd smell like a chimney. And it was awesome because he would have this Texas accent. And one of the things he always said is you have to associate yourself with the people that

[00:35:34] you desire to be. And I took off.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_06] I didn't stay at Michigan for my special training. But in that transition coming back, I ran into, well, I associated with Joel Zahler. And Joel had been a member here forever. And I think it was kind of because his mentor, Joe Clayton, it was management, just like these guys have said. And so as soon as I got back, the first thing we did in September was come up to Shanty Creek for the first meeting.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_06] And the camaraderie and the love of talking dentistry back and forth and going out to dinner and having people jab you across the, you know, talking about that gold foil you did or this, that or whatever. I mean, it was always very highbrow, very aesthetic, strong quality dentistry. And yeah, it was kind of a prerequisite that I had to become a member as soon as I had associated

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_06] with Joel Zahler. And just the group of people that we get to associate with here and the high quality of the members of the society, as well as the speakers then that we're able to draw. It's kind of like part of your life, the 22 years that you've been here, the 20 years that I've been a member since 2000, I think. And it's just part of life.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_06] Like you said, it's February, I mean, the March and the September meeting. It's just part of the calendar. And I've met some of the most gracious but amazing dentists that I know in this society. So it's part of my life. I love it. Thanks.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_02] That's awesome. It's funny because, you know, the thought process goes into your talking about your study club, but a lot of people have mentioned it sort of becomes an extended family. And a lot of times you see the people here, you know you're going to see them, you know, you're going to see them here. The spring meeting is spectacular. We have great speakers. It's typically in Lansing. Sometimes it has been in Ann Arbor since I've been a member. But to be honest, the fall meeting is sort of the highlight because you get to get away.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02] I'm going to tell you that fall, like late September, early October in the northwest side of the lower peninsula of Michigan, it doesn't really get much better than this. Today maybe is the exception. It's been raining like crazy. But the reality is it's gorgeous up here. It's always just on the cusp of when the leaves are turning. And, you know, when we're in Bel Air at Shanty Creek, you know, the lodge is on the top of the mountain. You can see down the lake. It's gorgeous. And it's like it's a little getaway. I love that part of it.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02] And it's just become such a big part of my life. And like I said, it sounds like I'm not alone on that. And it's a pretty special place. So it's worth mentioning that anyone can come as a guest. Even if you're not planning on becoming a member, you probably will. If you show up long enough, you'll probably become a member. But anyone can come as a guest. And if there is interest, again, I'm going to throw out the email address for the podcast, info at dentalhacks.com. I would be happy to.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02] If we have a drawing for people bringing the most guests at the next meeting, I suspect I'm going to have them put my name on it because I'm planning on winning this. I'm going to load it up. But seriously, I would encourage any listeners that has any attraction to this at all, I would love to have you up here. It'll change your life. It's a really good experience. Our last guest up here is Dr. John Hamrick. And what's funny is it was really hilarious. I was introduced earlier as special guest Alan Mead.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02] And I thought that was kind of funny because, I mean, I've been coming to the veteran since I graduated from dental school. I always sort of thought I was Roger's kid, Alan Mead, is what I remember most of the time. And lo and behold, it's Howard's kid. We got John Hamrick. John's probably the youngest one up here, probably the newest to the society. I want to hear about how it's affected you. But I also want to hear about, as maybe a younger dentist, what you think about the veteran and what it's offered you.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_21] Thank you, Alan. And as the millennial dentist in the room here, growing up with a father who was very actively involved in academia, as well as the top study clubs, being president and every role that Howard did, living up to that. And also looking into these societies and the benefits they have to offer. So graduated in 2010 and came out.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_21] And, you know, in this day and age, even 10 years ago, it was all about webinars and, oh, free CE and this and that. And you start to look at it. Who's the speaker? What are they speaking about? What is the content? How is it going to benefit me in a learning experience as well as a clinical experience? Taking it back to your practice to further better your dentistry as well as serve your patients.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_21] And so came to a few meetings with Better, for the Better Society, and immediately saw the quality of the education as well as the value. And being a member of Spear Study Club and seeing the constant cycle of top-notch speakers through the Better Society, that resonated with myself.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_21] And so right away, I did my two meetings and put my application in, and now I'm on the board because I want to better this society for the future as well as things change and as speakers continue to evolve in dentistry. And so, long story short, the quality of education is superior, and you'll see a lot of the big-name speakers, such as we said Frank Spear, Kois, and some of the up-and-coming circuit speakers. You're going to see them here.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_21] And it's great to go up north, enjoy the weather, and the leaves changing and all that.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_02] And so, yeah, it's kind of a no-brainer because – and you hate to make this all about money, but everyone needs CE. There's a lot of younger people coming out of school with a lot of debt, and they're hesitant to spend big money on CE. And the Better Society is the loophole on that because they kind of bring all these amazing educators to northern Michigan, and all you got to do is kind of show up.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02] And it's – we laugh, but it's shockingly inexpensive for what we're talking about. I hate to say cheap, but let's be honest. Money is real, and it is an amazing value for what you get. Can I butt the Chinese?

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_08] I think the difference between seeing speakers like Sheesh and Tawadi and Spear and Koi and that caliber, Tawadi, etc., and Tanaka and that, is that you're seeing them in a relatively small, intimate environment. It's not like Chicago. It's not like the Midwinter meetings. It's not like a big academy meeting with 6,000 people around you. You're here with a couple hundred at the most. Yeah. And you can connect with your speaker.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02] You get a ton of face time with a speaker if you want to. I mean, literally during the breaks, people are asking questions, and you're interacting with the same people that you've known from the Vetter site. I mean, it's a really great experience, and it's meant a ton to me. And I guess – I know there's a lot of people in the audience that have been coming, too. I want to – if anyone has any Vetter stories they'd like to tell, I would love to have here. Yeah. Thanks, Howard.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02] It's cool because even though we don't know each other necessarily all that well, these same faces you see over and over again, you kind of get to know them. It's pretty great, actually.

[00:43:08] Wow.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_18] David Brown from Valley Creek. Russ talked about 1959 with the Big Fin Cadillacs. When I was one year old, my dad came up to Shanty Creek for the Grand Opening 1963 Cadillac, four years later with little lower fins. Anyway, we were talking about letters of recommendation when I was in dental school.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_18] Of course, my dad's going to write a letter for me to join Vetter. And Hugh Cooper also wrote a letter for me. And later I asked my dad, well, why did Hugh Cooper write a letter of recommendation for me to join Vetter? And he said, well, on our train ride to the Chicago Winter Meeting, I pulled out a whole bunch of dyes that you had from my pocket and showed Hugh. I don't know if Hugh thought I really needed to join a study club or I was talented.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_18] But anyway, my dad's celebrating 61 years in dental practice. A great mentor and teacher. And it's always on our calendar to come up to Shanty Creek. My staff always thought it started Wednesday night until this year. They got a call that said our Charter Samming fishing trip was canceled yesterday because of bad weather. Busted. They said, I thought you were going to a meeting. So we got busted.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02] That's awesome. Thank you. The other thing that's worth mentioning, the Saturday, it's a Friday full day lecture. Saturday half day and then Sunday half day. So you get that Saturday half day and it's kind of built into the schedule. So that's really terrific, too. We got some more stories to take. Well, my name is Brian Petersburg.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_10] I'm in Brighton. And Harry Davis, when I associated with him in 1972 when I graduated, had me come up that year to the Veterans Society. And it may have been one of the best educational experiences I've had becoming a member of the Veterans Society. As I progressed, a couple years later, we had Carl Reeder here. And I don't know, probably some of you remember Carl Reeder. But he was this dentist from California. And Gary and I went out that night.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_10] We were walking along and we had this hour-long conversation with Carl Reeder. And as we walked around Shanty Creek. And Carl, at that time, charged $800 for a crown. Now, in Brighton, I charged $104. I went back to Brighton that weekend and after the weekend and I told Harry, I said, Harry, I think we ought to raise our fees. Now, that never happened in Brighton.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_10] But anyway, part of my educational experiences has been just the association and the recognition of what dentistry can do. Now, whether we take all this information home and incorporate it in our practice is not always the key point. It's what we learn about and how to provide and see the dentistry that we can aspire to do. And, you know, one of the things, as you mentioned, Ralph, you know, we used to have a lot of our instructors from the dental school.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_10] You know, Lowry and Chuck Fusilier and all of these icons in dentistry that were here. And that is one of the things that I would like to see happen again. I would hope someday we would be able to bring back the faculty in Michigan and the UMD, although I'm go blue. But bring them here as part of the Better Society. Because I always thought that was kind of an inspiring aspect when you saw your instructors here.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_10] And it showed you the kind of an organization that this is. But those are, you know, some very good memories that we have. And we have learned a lot. Every one of us has learned a lot coming to this meeting today. I just got a bunch of little pointers I'm going to have to go back next Monday and I'm going to be looking into. So thank you again. It happens every time, doesn't it?

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_03] You bet. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_05] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_05] Thank you. Gary, do you remember me? And he goes, yeah.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05] We almost drowned together. And I pretty soon just say, well, I've got a young lady I want to refer out to you and I expect some appreciation. So we chuckled about that. Another time, Bill Strump came. And this is the story I love. He loved bathroom humor. So Bill was talking. And this is literally, I think I can quote this. He was speaking back in those days. He used polycylipoid rubber base.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_05] And as those of you who are up in long enough to remember that, it had a particular odor to it. And as he related, his assistant had dispensed the rubber base out on the countertop. And not yet. Next thing he wasn't ready to feel depression. But his patient looked up at him and said, doctor, I think your bathroom needs to attend. And he was stunned from it. And he looked at her and I said, oh, you mean it smells like shit?

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_05] And she said, well, yeah. And he goes, well, that shit is supposed to be your mouth. At any rate, I love that story. It's been my privilege to be your president in the past. And I very much enjoyed the camaraderie and the cross referrals that have occurred. And it's my pleasure to be back to this meeting after a number of years of absence. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_13] Good evening. My name is Pete Chiarovelli. And I think that we understand that things change, but values should remain the same. When I started at the University of Michigan at a undergraduate, there were no women cheerleaders. There were no women in the marching band. The Michigan Union was the men's union and the Michigan League was the women's league.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_13] There was a pool hall in Michigan men's union that women were not allowed to go into. There was a swimming pool in the basement of the Michigan Union, which was a men's women's swimming pool, which Johnny might wise know what happened to swim in and set a record. Also, things had changed when I started there.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_13] The tuition for an entire year in undergraduate was $374. And so things change, but values shouldn't. And this organization should really hang on to the values upon which it was founded. And that is education, excellence in dentistry, particularly crown bridge and fixed prosthodontics.

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_13] When I was in dental school, I went into the, I'm a general practitioner, practiced in Lansing. Joel Zahler was in the lab working. And it was a time when porcelain fused to gold was not perfected. And Joel Zahler did not do porcelain fused to gold. He did pyroplast.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_13] And he showed me a technique where he broke the Joe Dandy disc working on a silver dye. He would work those margins until they became so thin that they would just automatically flake off. And at that point, he said, this thing is imperceptible. Imperceptible. And in about 1982, Larry Stowe, who worked with Gary, called me up and said, I'd like you to be my program chairman.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_13] Which is probably the worst job in the whole world. Because we weren't very kind to people who had speakers who weren't absolutely top notch. So, I'm really worried. And so, I was the first person, I believe, who hired a speaker for more than $10,000.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_13] And I hired Ralph Udalis. Another thing with Gary there. And Ralph Udalis was Frank Speer and John Coise's teacher at the Perio Cross program at the University of Washington. So, this organization has a tremendous history. A tremendous responsibility to maintain the values that should never change.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_13] All the rest of this stuff, girls in the marching band, no female cheerleaders. Hey, comes and goes, oh, by the way, women were not. I had no women in my dental school class. Not one. Women were not only not members of the society. They weren't invited. Wives. Somebody brought a wife one time and it was like, oh, what's that all about? So, things have improved a lot.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_13] But the fact of the matter is, those things change. Values should remain the same.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_14] Thank you.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_13] That's great.

[00:54:31] Go ahead, Joe. Hello.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_16] My name is Joe Culling. I'm in Ann Arbor. And I practice there and I teach there at the university. And I'll tell you a little bit about my story. I associated with one of the founding members of this organization, Hugh Cooper, who was mentioned before. And I taught in the Crown and Bridge Department right after I graduated, which means I had zero chance of not being involved in this group.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_16] I was brought along early and taken under the wing of a lot of people in this room. And I thank you all. You know who you are. And I wanted to share with you that eventually you become a member of the board and you get these responsibilities of being a program chair. And you do, in fact, feel like Pete just said you have to be really careful because you want to do a good job.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_16] And I went looking and I know at the time I did hire the most expensive speaker that we'd ever had. And that was Frank Spear. And Frank did a great job. But I was literally able to tell him, Frank, I know all about you. I know about your courses. We don't need volume one, two, and three. We want volume four and five. Because we got one, two, and three already.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_16] You don't have to come in here and give us the background. We want to see your tough cases, the stuff that makes you scratch your head. Because that's the quality of the people you'll be talking to. And that's what he did. And that's why people still remember it. I will tell you that as program chair that year, I had a wonderful opportunity. As it has already been said, we do all day Friday, half day Saturday, half day Sunday, which is not the easiest thing to get speakers to agree to.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_16] But that Saturday afternoon, we treat those speakers pretty well. And we find out what they want to do. And there are some lovely golf courses here and other things that people can do. And so one of the nice things as a program chair is you can ask this speaker, what would you like to do? And I promptly said, I don't golf, but there's wonderful golf courses. I can find someone who will happily take you to any course you want to go to.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_16] And he says, Joe, can anybody take me fishing? And I said, well, that I can do. And we went for a lovely float down the Manistee salmon fishing. And I had an afternoon with Frank Spear by myself, floating the Manistee salmon fishing, because I was a member here. How cool is that?

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_11] That's how I felt getting a chance to interview him. It was amazing. Joe Carlow here. I've known Alan before he was born. So a little story. As a young dentist practicing in Warren, I would work all day and go home and have dinner and come back and wax and cast crowns like many of you did. And I think I was in a rut.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_11] And one day, Roger Meade called me and said, I got to be at a meeting up in Lansing. I can't make it. Can you go? So I said, fine, I'll cover for you because Roger's my best friend. And I went up there and I walked in the room and the guy said, oh, you must be the new board member. And I think I'm the only person who became a member of the Vettor Society and a board member of the Satan Eye. That's awesome.

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_02] Any other Vettor stories? Oh, hey, we've got plenty. Cool. Let me give Mark real fast.

[00:58:25] Is that better? I'll get up there if you want me to stand up tall. Okay. I'm Mark Sunney. I practiced in Trenton, Michigan.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_12] Graduated from Michigan in 1973. And sometime in the late 70s, my good friend, she rest in peace, Mark Dwoskin, told me I should come to this Vettor Society meeting. I graduated Michigan. Had no idea that my University of Detroit friend knew all about this Michigan group. And I came and I loved it. It was outstanding CE.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_12] And it's impacted my life tremendously. All for the good. And I liked it so much. You know, I became a member of the board. Became your president in 2008. But while I was the program chair, one of my highlights was by accident when Stephen Chu came and spoke to us. Actually, he was supposed to be David Little.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_12] And David Little was involved in something personally that he couldn't make it. And he said, I'm going to get you somebody. I said, okay, who's it going to be? And he said, this fellow I know is Stephen Chu. And he's a lot more expensive, like double. But I'll get you a sponsor. So Culsar sponsored the $10,000 extra that we didn't have to spend. And Stephen Chu loved golf.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_12] So we played golf. And he was as casual and good-natured as anybody I've ever met. We got done. He said, what do you want to do? Get dressed up and go to dinner? He says, no. Isn't there a place we can get a beer? So we came into a, over here, popcorn and beer. Laid back and had a wonderful relationship. Learned a lot about dentistry as well as about him as a person.

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_12] And interestingly, that year I had flown up with Larry Eber. And Stephen had some travel problems. So Larry flew him with us to some other airport. I don't remember exactly where. Dropped him off so he could get his plane. Could have gone to Traverse City. And he got out of here. And it was a great experience.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_12] And for me, it's been the highlight of my CE for just about 40 years. And I'm excited to be here again. And commend my instructors at Michigan. Especially Russ. I want to express my appreciation for making me proud to be a dentist. And this organization has served me well. And I continue to be here.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_12] Even though I'm a life member, if you want to raise my dues, I'm happy to pay.

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_14] Thanks, Mark.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_09] My name is Scott Ward. I'm on the board as well. I'm the laboratory relations. And I'm involved in quite a few study clubs. And I have to be honest with you. There's not one club that I'm involved in that treat the lab technicians as an equal partner, as you guys do here. We're people partners.

[01:01:52] We're non-associated members. We're non-associated members. We're non-associated members.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_09] And it makes me feel really happy when I see dentists and lab guys studying together. So that's my point.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_10] I think Brian here is where you get it. Joe, I have to thank Joe Coley. My associate has been with me for over 20 years now. I had a talk with Joe, and he's the one who recommended me for my partner who couldn't make it this weekend. But Joe, you brought up an interesting point doing something with the speaker. And John, one day we had a speaker here, Dan Nathanson. And the Veterans Society didn't know what to do because Dan didn't like to golf.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_10] He didn't want to fish. He didn't want to play tennis. They asked him, do you want to watch football? Well, you know, because of course Saturday afternoons is Michigan football. No, he didn't want to watch football. He said, I'm just going to work on slides in my room. So John came and he said, during his presentation, he showed a picture of an airplane. And so John came and asked me, he said, Brian, I think Dan likes to fly. Would you mind asking him if he'd like to fly?

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_10] So my afternoon on a Saturday afternoon in Shanty Creek with a spectacular day, not a cloudless guy, we flew over to the Lelandau Peninsula where I have a cottage. Had a great afternoon there. Flew down kind of over the Sleeping Bear sand dunes. Dropped Gary Arnold off in Traverse City and came back and we had a wonderful afternoon. Went to the road again that night for dinner.

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_10] But a segue to that story, Gary Arnold's daughter was going into, had gone into dentistry and she was going to grad school out in Boston. Guess who she got an internship with? Dan Nathusen. But anyway, we do have a lot of wonderful stories here. And it all relates about what Pete kind of said about the quality of our lives, the quality of our dentistry and maintaining our values. Thanks.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_17] I would just like to refute one comment. It's not always the cheapest CE. A number of years ago, my wife came up with me. The front desk hooked her up with the antique store. She then got to meet John Cross's wife and it cost me a bundle.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_20] As a senior dental student, I was invited to the better meeting. And I looked up on the screen, these gorgeous teeth. And it said, teeth by God. And then the next slide was another set of gorgeous teeth. And it said, teeth by Stein. Right then and there, I knew that's the kind of dentistry I wanted to do.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_20] Sheldon Stein was an extraordinary dentist from Boston. That was in 1980. And that imprinted at me. And that's something that so many of us get to enjoy now is that people walk around with dentistry that nobody knows what it is. And largely because of the impact of this society and time after time attending meetings that maybe I didn't want to go to.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_20] But oh my God, I learned something so critical. You know, Harold Chevelle. I was trained in fully adjustable articulators. But Harold Chevelle got me thinking about a fully articulated brain. And, you know, so little influences that nudged us along the way. We're still on that curve with the exciting stuff that's going on. So I just hope this society goes forth because it's imprinted. So many of us here. And we obviously have influenced each other tremendously.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_20] I am so thankful to so many people here and how instrumental this society was in my career. Thanks.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_00] Hello. My name is Tom Lehman. I'm a dental tech from Minnesota. Hi, Tom. Okay. Veterans Society. How did I become aware of it? Well, I graduated Southern Illinois University in 69. Amen. Go Salukis. Took a job with a fellow named Otto Kramer. Kramer Dental Studio in Minneapolis.

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_00] He invented a porcelain oven that vacuum-fired porcelain. And the year Dent Supply came out with their vacuum-fired denture teeth, he came out with vacuum-fired porcelain jackets. Tremendous guy. At his laboratory, I met another SIU graduate, probably back in 63, named Fred Klein. Some of you have heard of him. It was a great association.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_00] And what Fred went on his own to open his own lab. There were a lot of dentists from Michigan that went with him because he was able to give them what they wanted. In 75, Fred asked me to join him because the prosthodontic I was working for, well, I knew there was more shades than 62 and 65. And I had a beautiful 23-year relationship with Fred's lab.

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00] And many of you we did work for. We could practice the art of dental technology. And Chuck Fuselaire and, oh gosh, names, names. Gary Hubbard, Larry Stone, Ron Bedron, Ralph Sylvie. All of these people, I saw the beautiful work that they were doing

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_00] and other dentists from other parts of the country that didn't do quite as nice work. When Fred retired and sold his business to what I called a big house in Minnesota, no relationship to the big house in Michigan, I couldn't take it because numbers didn't matter to me. The quality mattered. So 20 years ago, when I started on my own,

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_00] a lot of those Michigan dentists supported me. And for 20 years, I've been a member of Better. I've learned with them. And we could be on a level of understanding. So it was tremendously important. And the history and going forward, remembering where you've come from, to change with societal times,

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_00] but still be better than you were the day before. And that's what Better has done for me and for everyone. So thank you. And the associations, I have a brother here, Ron Bedron. We talk about lots of things on the phone. I think our phone bills are bigger than lab bills sometimes. But anyway, it's the people and the quality and the caring that you show for your patients

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_00] that show up in the laboratory. Thank you.

[01:09:35] Thanks, Tom.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02] Do you have any more Better stories? There's a lot of you. Oh, there's one.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_01] You got to hear from one lady tonight. Yeah. So we all know what a great society of Better's is. We all know what a great education we get here at Better's. What a value it is at Better's. But the most important thing to me is the people. This is the nicest group of people you will ever work with. I've been on other boards. I couldn't wait to get off of them.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_01] I designed my own position to stay on this board. I've been on this board since 2006. I'll probably stay on until y'all kick me off. So it really is the relationships, the friendships, the fellowship that we have here that is so important to me. Thank you.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_02] You got another one here. Right up here, Scott. Yep. This is awesome, by the way.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07] I didn't realize everyone was going to switch great stories. Thank you. My name is Jim Wapwood. I'm a dentist in Grand Rapids. Better has meant one main thing to me. My grandpa was a dentist. He graduated in 1923. And I think Francis must have been either a classmate or a young professor at that time for my grandfather. I was five when my grandpa died. I never got to know him. So being part of this group is a connection to my past. And it gives me value that way.

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_07] The second thing I would mention is 1990, I was looking for something to do in terms of continuing ed. And a dear colleague of mine suggested that I immerse myself in the Panky Journey and join the Veterans Society. And both have been tremendously rewarding. And I enjoyed tremendous collaboration with that colleague for 30 years. He's sitting to the right of me. His name is Bill Menrovius. He's a dental technician.

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_07] And I learned as much from Bill as I ever learned in any lecture I ever attended. How's that for collaboration?

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_14] Thank you. Thank you.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_13] I joined the matter in the late 70s.

[01:12:04] I was really here. And I'm Howard and Hedges and Gilson and a good friend, Ron Tuck, who passed away a month ago. Dr. McCorn, he sponsored us. And it's been a great time. And I just, I think we should give it to Dr. Tuck,

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_08] who was a member here, past president, and a good friend. Thank you.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02] I really appreciate you guys sharing the Veterans Society with the listeners of my podcast. It's pretty special. I didn't realize that. I've talked about it a bunch of times on the podcast, but I feel like you guys have really given a voice to it. And if you guys just listened to this episode and didn't come away realizing that there's some pretty special opportunities in continuing education in this world, and this is one of them, then you need to listen to it again.

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_02] And I really appreciate you guys sharing your study club, your society with our listeners. And again, thank you very much. If you guys have any questions or comments about the Veterans Society, you can email me at infodentalhacks.com. Definitely go check out the website, VedderSociety.com. And come join us. Come join us at the Veterans Society. You'll love it. Northern Michigan in October, September, October is fantastic. Thank you guys for listening, and we'll catch you next time.

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_19] Hey, friends. We're back. That was Alan's trip to the Better Society. Wasn't that great? If you don't know who that is, that's a... Who is that? Imitating. Eddie Better of Pearl Jam.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_02] I couldn't remember the name of the band. I was lost.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_19] Yes. But now I'm telling you. Back when I was young, that's what I listened to. And I wear a lot of flannel. You were a grunge kid, huh? Yeah. And girls still didn't talk to me.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_02] So... I was really big into the early 90s hip-hop. You can probably tell by the way I look and the way I dress. I'm very fly. So that was the 60th anniversary banquet live podcast, if you will, of the Francis B. Better Society. Go check it out at bettersociety.com. I think it's September 24th through the 27th next fall is the fall meeting. I'm not sure who's speaking there, although they usually get really spectacular people. Probably me. It's Jason Lipscomb is speaking there. We just found that out. So yes. Yeah.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_02] But we'd love to have... I'll accept. Okay. Okay. I'll do it. We're the big winner.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_19] We get to hear Jason for three days straight. Wouldn't it be cool if I took like really high-res photography of my terrible dental preps and put it up there and just like the shittiest like restorations ever in your life, but just beautiful photography of it.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_02] Like the best photography of the worst dentistry of all time.

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_19] That's my goal. And just sit up there just incredulous that somebody would doubt the quality of my work. Exactly. No, exactly.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_02] See how long you can hold out and act like they're seeing something from Nazari or something like that. Just pretend. Just like totally shocked that they're not totally into what you're doing. Emperor's new clothes. Like get this. So again, bettersociety.com and don't judge the better society on what you're hearing from Jason and I right now. It's just, it wouldn't be fair. Don't judge anything based on what we're saying.

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_02] Part of the show where we talk about things we're consuming, reading, listening to, using, eating, usually eating. It's called Go Hack Yourself. So Jason, go hack yourself.

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_19] Well, my Go Hack Yourself is a little thing that I found that somebody in my family showed me because they saw how fat I was getting and evidently didn't want to say it to my face. But it's a app on my phone. It's a workout app called Naked Training. And no, I don't advise training naked unless you can. And if you can do it. For sure.

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_19] As you get older, there's lots of things that could get pinched in a gym. Yeah. Not safe.

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_02] You know, and the other thing is as you get older, if you go to a gym, you find somehow there's like a demographic of about 65 year old plus men that they love walking around locker rooms naked. There's something about that. So yeah, don't do that.

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_19] And one day I'll regale you with the stories of the upholstered couch that used to be in our locker room and all the old men that would just writhe up and down that thing.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_14] Yeah.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_19] I'll tell you what. But this app is called Naked Training. And it's actually, I can't remember the lady's name on there, but she's much stronger and more fit than I am. Um, but it's a daily workout app and it kind of helps build you to start lifting weights and getting your flexibility. Um, and it's kind of showing me some different stuff that I wouldn't normally think of to kind of help, like make sure I'm stretching, not hurting myself. So I'm trying to get, I'm trying to get fit or, uh, the voices of dentistry.

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_19] So when I get in the pool, uh, small children don't scream and cry and run to their mothers. Um, I look like a, somewhat like a human. So, but that's my go hack itself. Hashtag goals. Yep. I like that.

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_02] Not to, not to scare people with your body. Naked Trink. So it's an app. It's a phone app. So you can just, it is a phone app. Does she yell at you as you're working out? That's what I want to know. Um, she could, if you wanted to, I guess. I feel like that would, that would probably help a lot for me. I think like in not, not in like a good, sexy way, more of a, uh, skeert. Kind of way. Yeah. Being skeert. Yeah. Sounds good. So, uh, you'll be, you'll be thin and ripped at voice of dentistry. Good to know. I will. You challenge accepted.

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_02] You better believe it, boy. So I have a go hack yourself. Uh, I've talked about this author multiple times before a guy by the name of John Sanford has a new book out. His character's name is Virgil flowers. And I think we probably every October or so I talk about his new book. It's called bloody genius. Uh, John Sanford is, is based out of Minneapolis, St. Paul. Actually, he, I think he lived just a mile or two down the road from where I used to live at the Psy Omega house at the university of Minnesota.

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_02] His wife, uh, was an endo instructor actually at the university of Minnesota. And I didn't know this at the time that, that her husband was the same writer as John Sanford. Anyhow, great book. He's an incredible writer. I love everybody. And it's one of those things where I always try and make it last because they're not that long of books and they're always so good. So bloody genius is what it's called. Really good book. Well, I'm not saying maybe shoot, maybe it's terrible. Maybe by the end I'll hate it, but I doubt it because I usually love his books. So there you have it.

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_02] Bloody genius by John Sanford. I don't read books. Well, I, it's, it's an audible book. Don't, don't give me too much credit. I, no, it's not. I mean, technically, I mean, you're listening to the radio. The information makes it into my brain. So it's quote unquote reading. Okay. It's reading. That's how Al reads. Now, do you understand? I think I'm getting it. Yeah. Okay. Cause I don't have the attention span actually. Well, shoot.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_02] Let's wrap this up. Jason. I've had enough of you. I'm, I just can't even stand. So I think I have to put my children to bed or do homework with them or something. You know, sounds good. Do the homework first. I will do that. Actually, I'll put them to bed. Then I'll do their homework. So that's how it works. Yeah. That's more effective. Not so far off. Just saying. So anyhow, uh, thanks for recording with me tonight, Jason. Thanks for listening. Y'all listeners. Thank you. Give us five star reviews and stuff like that. And we'll catch you next week. Peace.

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_19] Voices of dentistry. Hashtag dance with Lance.