Very Dental Extra: Dr. Shashikant Singhal on Simplifying Cementation

[00:00:01] This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network Sometimes you just can't get enough very dental sometimes you need a little bit more Now is one of those times Welcome to the very dental extra Very dental people welcome back to another very dental extra

[00:00:29] Today's very dental extra is brought to us by our friends at ivaclaw my co-host today Who I've just met kind of over the over the internet here is dr. Shashi singal Shashi. How you doing? I'm doing fabulous Ellen. How are you? I'm very good

[00:00:45] and so I just talked with Shashi a little bit about his background and There are I'm sure that a lot of our listeners would love to just ask you questions because Shashi is a dentist But he went back to school and got a master's in

[00:01:01] biomaterials in like I think Dentists are either like materials whatever is in front of me or there's the dentist that just loved to To break everything down and look at everything I think there's two different kinds sort of if you will but I

[00:01:16] Think it's very interesting that your background and you you are in R&D and education with ivaclaw. Is that correct? That's that's correct. Yes, awesome. That's very cool. So I'm also told by

[00:01:31] Someone someone gave me a little hint a little bird told me that you're someone who really enjoys different food experiences So I want to ask you a question So when you are traveling and you know, you're gonna have a couple nights to dine out in a city

[00:01:46] The foodie Shashi the one who's the foodie. How do you know? Where do you want to go first? What kind of food are you gonna check out? Do you have a habit? Do you do what's your what's your what's your way of knowing where you want to eat?

[00:01:58] You know, and it's it's a phenomenal question. First of all, yeah, I love to eat I really love to eat and that's one of my passion I think we all we all love to we all live to eat as well

[00:02:11] So from my standpoint of you, I like to taste the local food So whenever I go anywhere I will try to find what are the local restaurants which will offer you the authentic

[00:02:24] Local flavors and I don't like kind of like fine dining and all that stuff. I'm not big on that. I prefer to Really go to those restaurants where everyone would like to go So it has me the roadside. It can be anywhere. Yeah, so I love that part

[00:02:41] Okay So like where where have you traveled recently where you had something something that would surprise us Yeah, I have a habit that I'll tell you about when you're when you're done. But like give me something recent

[00:02:54] That's like that's really local. Yeah, I recently went to India and I think that's how the birdie told you so I'm an Indian born and raised in India and

[00:03:04] It's interesting kind of like I bought in the northern part of India and then I did my school from the southern part of India So again the culture and the food the flavors and all that significantly different both on the northern side and the

[00:03:18] Southern part of India, so I got the flavors of both So whenever I go to India I try each and every food the spice levels makes a huge difference as well. The flavors make a huge difference

[00:03:32] I do have my own favorites as well. I do have my own favorite places as well where to go But then it's interesting if you're going to India and you are going to different places as well every place has their own local food and

[00:03:46] that is completely different like not kind of like just a Slight difference in the flavors like completely different like if I will say in us as well The barbecue that you will get in South you cannot come like I'm in Buffalo and I will not say that

[00:04:03] Okay, it's good or bad, but I will say I will not have the same flavors that I will have it in South It's a fact the beans like again you you cannot have those kind of flavors in the north

[00:04:14] So so yeah, I've been to India tasted so many different things as well And whenever you go, it's kind of like again new flavors you try new new places and you really enjoy it So yeah, I love doing that. That's really cool. So I have this thing

[00:04:30] I don't travel as much I used to because all my kids are basically there and there's so many activities So I don't get to travel as much and I have where I live. We have fine restaurants, but nothing real special we're pretty small and

[00:04:45] I have a thing for Japanese street food like I'm a ramen guy and that sort of thing And so I generally I'm terrible. I almost never look anywhere but a ramen joint if it's in a big city

[00:04:55] I'm gonna find I'm gonna find the ramen place or two to go and that's what I do And I don't I don't eat a lot of ramen anywhere else It's just what I'm traveling and it has become the tradition. I actually got a in our very dental Facebook

[00:05:07] Group someone was teasing me They took a picture of some ramen while they were traveling knowing that that's that's what I do So I have that and I mean, I'm I love all kinds of food

[00:05:16] But somehow or another I've gotten focused in that but you're interesting that you talk about the barbecue You know if you talk to someone about barbecue in Texas, and then you talk to someone about barbecue in North Carolina It's

[00:05:29] One person definitely thinks the other person is doing it wrong and vice versa. Yeah, I get it. I get it. There's definitely there's definitely different Geographical flavors even if it's technically the same dish just interesting Yeah, I'll never give you just one tip

[00:05:44] So you said like it's difficult sometimes to go out and all that stuff What I do now is whenever I'm traveling and you're taking over or you're taking taxi and all that I talk with the driver. I

[00:05:57] Asked from them and nowadays with a door dash or the over eat It's amazing. You just basically you can try the local flavors much more easily Because while you are you talk with them you're asking from a local person and

[00:06:11] You can just find the restaurant what they what they recommend and then you can just basically place an order and you get it at Your room so you don't have to worry about anything and you can keep trying different different things

[00:06:22] So, yeah, that's what I have started doing it and I really enjoy it That's that's very cool. That's very cool. I like that now as much as I like to talk about food

[00:06:32] We could probably talk about food the whole podcast probably we need to talk a little bit about dentistry I have a car asked us to talk a little bit about that. So I Wanted okay, I'm gonna start I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a very very

[00:06:45] Soft easy pitch. I want you to tell me From the standpoint of the guy who does education and research and development from in I've acquired what is new in cementation and bonding of indirect restorations from I've acquired

[00:07:00] Now and I will say I will give you a little bit bigger answer on that or a longer answer on that side first of all Cementation topic is always very confusing for the clinicians, right?

[00:07:13] There are so many restorative products that are out there right now and everyone feels like you know, what should I do? You graduate from a dental school you learn about different things

[00:07:23] But then as soon as you come out from a dental school and working in a prior practice You have so many options You have so many options to select whether it's a restorative material that can include lithium disilicate It can include the zirconia

[00:07:38] Now you can include the printed materials as well. And then at the same time you do have multiple different cements as well I graduated from the University of Minnesota in 1997 and we're like three exits down from the 3m main campus

[00:07:58] So yes, I was exposed maybe more to 3m products than a lot of dentists probably were No, we got the whole place was just just a mess of 3m stuff from left and so yes on some level

[00:08:12] You don't even think about that as a dental. Yes, but you are you are exposed to what you're exposed to you know, I Yeah And and that's what I was telling out it is like you asked a bigger question is what's new from my work last time

[00:08:29] But if you and from R&D and education perspective, I do see all these challenges Now clinicians have to make a decision. So from my work last standpoint of you We want to make sure that first of all what we are offering it. It is much more predictable

[00:08:46] The clinical success will be really high and at the same time it's easy to use as well And it is solving the purpose of a clinician

[00:08:57] Okay, when I'm saying that it is solving the purpose of a clinician means that in what clinical indications you can use the product and The product is self-explanatory as well that you can use it easily

[00:09:10] Okay, so from our standpoint if you definitely you want to offer all those products that are much more predictable easy to use it with a high clinical success and you can use it in different variety of clinical situations and then yeah support support the

[00:09:26] Clinicians in the best possible way by providing the highest quality education as well as well as supported by strong research data That's I mean, so yeah, I Feel like okay. That's what that's all we want It is it is funny because let me ask you this

[00:09:45] This is the first question comes to mind and it isn't a material specific question But over the years the instructions that are given in materials have gotten much better many less words many better pictures

[00:10:00] And in understand even at that I still have to go back like I don't Go over my instructions as often as I should do you understand like like okay

[00:10:12] So let's say it's a material I've been using for ten years and I'm certain I know exactly how there it's indicated And I'll go back and look at the instructions and realize that I'm maybe I'm using it the way that it was used ten years

[00:10:24] ago and they've changed the instructions or something like that and I just it is interesting that you say that because it does need to Be easy to use but it needs to be easy to understand and because dentists won't read directions. We're terrible that way we are

[00:10:35] Yes, we're so tell me how is an educator and basically the R&D guy? How do you tackle that problem? How do you how do you make it? I don't want to say dumb it down because that's not but the bottom line is you know

[00:10:46] A busy clinician is not gonna sit there and take you know, they don't have a ton of time for this So, how do you how do you work with that?

[00:10:53] Yeah, so it comes to first of all understanding the pain points as well from a clinician standpoint of you Where are they struggling? Right. So an ivacloud is developing any of the products we are kind of like doing a really strong market research as well

[00:11:07] What is exactly needed by the clinicians? Okay Based on that we are making these as R&D projects as well and developing new products So might be I will give an example of our adhesive cement

[00:11:20] Okay, one of the adhesive Simmons that we do have it in our portfolio is video link aesthetic It does have two components one is video link aesthetic LC that is a light cure and we link aesthetic DC

[00:11:34] That is the dual cure version now that goes what our recommendation is. It's an open system But what our recommendation is that basically use this with a universal bonding agent that is it is universal

[00:11:48] Okay, why I am sharing this with you is because as you mentioned it and we both have discussed it is ease of use So from a standpoint of view of adhese universal as we said we are trying to constrain the pain points

[00:12:02] Use of total edge technique or a children's technique was always considered as like not that easy Thing to do because it can results in the post-op sensitivity Whereas on the self-edge mode, we know that again the bond strength values is unpredictable

[00:12:19] So now we've developed a product like it is universal that can be used in total edge technique Self-edge technique and the selective edge technique. Okay, so from a clinician standpoint of view now Whichever way you would like to use it. You can use it

[00:12:37] You do not have to remember that. Okay, do I need to use phosphoric acid all the time? Do I need to use the self-edge technique or selective edge technique? So it gives you that freedom

[00:12:49] Okay, so it makes a huge difference Alan on that side and then also as We say like again, we are talking about total edge, self-edge and selective edge

[00:12:59] Yes using phosphoric acid can make a slight difference on the enamel bonds to in values because we do test that as well But on dentine we do not see much significant difference So now the second part comes first is ease of use The second part comes is the

[00:13:17] Predictability as well because from a customer standpoint of view or when I'm saying the customer means the patient From a patient standpoint of view when I am not using phosphoric acid. There is a probability that the post-op sensitivity will be less

[00:13:32] Okay. Now, I'm pretty much confident people who are listening this podcast They will say I'm using total edge technique for many years and I never had any post-op sensitivity

[00:13:42] Okay in that particular situation I will definitely say yes, they are right they are nailing their technique down very well But then the check the things that I'm trying to say is the probability So from a manufacturer standpoint of view you ask a question is R&D side

[00:13:59] From a manufacturer standpoint of view we are trying to come up with those kind of products that are much more predictable in a good clinical success Okay, so yeah, so that's that I will that was an example on the universal bonding agent side

[00:14:16] But as I said about the video link aesthetic light cure and a dual cure version So I will mention couple of things Alan on that side one is as I said pain points earlier

[00:14:28] One of the pain points for a dual cure cement is that there is a tendency? For a sheet shift over a period of time Right, so we understand that part and we came up with varial link aesthetic dual cure, which is a mean free

[00:14:46] Means that it is very color stable So we understood we understood that part and from R&D standpoint of view We developed the cement that is I mean free for a high color stability for a long-term clinical success

[00:14:59] And at the same time for both light cure and a dual cure version We simplified the shading system Again to make life easy for clinician. So when I'm saying simplifying the shading system means that you do have a neutral shade Okay, that is more translucent shade

[00:15:20] If we want to increase a slight value of a restoration because how many times it happens like you tried it in Like, you know, I just want to have that slight increase in a value then we do have light and light plus

[00:15:34] Okay, and then if you want to increase the chroma we do have warm and warm plus Interesting. And yeah, and in any in clinical situations you do have dark stump shade So we are just launching a new opaque shade as well

[00:15:50] That will even to help you out in masking the dark stump shade as well So again, I'm coming from what you were asking from me is from a research standpoint of view research and clinical Both standpoint a few is we are trying to develop the products and

[00:16:06] offering that offering those to our clinicians to make their life easy without Compromising the clinical outcome. So I answered your question in a little bit longer way Alan here But that's what our goal is from a manufacturer standpoint of view. Mm-hmm it's interesting too because

[00:16:26] Indication wise everyone's kind of got I it sounds to me like you've got a lot of options for You know different people how they like to do it how they need to do it and to your post here

[00:16:37] It sounds like you've kind of got but you've got it in a simplified package So you don't need to have one when I hear all that stuff like oh man Do how much how many different kinds do I have to have on?

[00:16:47] So it sounds like it sounds like you kind of simplified that though. Yes. Yes, Eleanor I have a land might be one more thing as well is We have optimized the shades for a light cure and a dual cure cement exactly

[00:17:01] why I'm why I'm bringing it up because Many times is you do have let's say number eight number nine veneer and then remaining you do have the crown Now because of the thickness of the crowns you cannot like cure through the crowns very easily

[00:17:16] And the transparency and everything comes into play So now we have you can use the dual cure cement on the crowns Whereas you can use a light your cement on the veneers if you would like to without

[00:17:28] Giving a second thought process in your mind that Oh when the shade match Right. So one system will offer you everything on that side. So yeah, so that's kind of like again We think a lot about what's the clinical situation?

[00:17:44] How the part can be used and what can be the versatility of that particular? Product also. So yeah Okay, so it's interesting So what the other thing that that's nice that I'm hearing is that you could probably have less products

[00:18:01] around in other words because there's flexible for instance, you know, if I'm if I'm cementing a single unit of posteriors or Konya It would make sense to me that it sounds like I could probably use I could probably use very oh very link aesthetic DC

[00:18:16] Because I'm not like through that But I also know that in it so but if so if I have the dual cure I can basically most of my posterior applications are gonna be covered by that, right? Yeah, that's that's correct

[00:18:28] So so there's your way and then if you've got anterior stuff where you need to sweat I guess if you could use a light in there

[00:18:35] The you've got the the light cured although it sounds like the dual cured could work fine for interior stuff as well in color So Alan that's that's correct. And that's why I was mentioning it because the light stability as well

[00:18:48] Let's say if you do have one crown in the interior, you can easily use dual cure the benefit of LC is basically that is giving you longer working time So if you do have multiple units, you would like to cement it all together

[00:19:03] Light cure will give you that flexibility Whereas again with the dual cure you have to do everything fast, but sometimes becomes a little bit tricky Right. So so that's that's the only thing which I will say

[00:19:15] but you can use dual cure both in interior and posterior if you would like to The reason of having light cure is basically to have the longer working time For big big cases if you can let the light pass through the restoration so definitely

[00:19:33] Clinician has to consider that that okay Do did my or is my restoration thick enough or as my restoration? Translucent enough that the light will go through it or not for a light cure resin cement

[00:19:46] Yeah, no, that's great though. Because what's interesting is is you'll you'll talk to a lot of dentists that have They'll have multiple cements for different situations that they're in other words

[00:20:00] Basic posterior they use one thing and then like interior maybe like me where you don't I don't do a ton of interior stuff Certainly do less veneers than I do crowns probably and so all of a sudden

[00:20:11] I don't like I there are times when I'm doing little enough of it that I'm like, oh man, how old is my cement? Like how how it in but it's it would be nice to just have one product that you're kind of that you in the other

[00:20:25] One product you get very familiar with I kind of like that Trying to figure out your anterior cement versus your posterior cement and all that stuff It sounds like you can simplify it a bit. Yeah, and then Alan I will add to that as well again

[00:20:37] It depends on your practice also So when I'm saying that it depends on your practice means what kind of restorations you're doing it very often Are you doing we came to high syndicate? That is IPS e mix CAD or press or Are you doing zirconia restoration?

[00:20:53] Like from I work lab, we do have zirconia prime and zirconia prime aesthetic as well so it depends on those kind of restorative materials if you're selecting those and Let's say you are using majority of the zirconia. Do you want to additively cement?

[00:21:09] Zirconia or not. That's another question. So based on that you will select your Cements accordingly. So again from from our standpoint a few from a manufacturer standpoint a few we are trying our best to simplify the life If you prefer to do the adhesive cementation

[00:21:26] We do have one option if you prefer to use a conventional cement like resin modified glass anomer We do have a cement option of Zirconia cement. Okay, and yeah If you would like to make your life easy

[00:21:40] Like you do you do want some chemical bonding when at the same time you do not want to do multiple different steps as well Then in that particular situation we do have speed some plus

[00:21:50] the reason why I'm bringing it up because it depends on your practice and depends on your Clinical situations as well what you would like to do or what you prefer to do in your practice. So that's all it is out That's it's what's interesting about that. Is that?

[00:22:08] I'm it's a pretty good segue honestly, because I feel like okay So there's there's several cements we're talking about and there are several different ways to do cementation We're talking about and and I'm just wondering okay, so they've got these different types

[00:22:22] It's great that you can simplify and figure it out. What's right for your practice? But I wonder if you want to learn more about them. What's the easiest way to do that? I feel like again, this is kind of an easy pitch to you because

[00:22:32] we're supposed to talk about tell me a little bit about how I can educate myself on the different why I would choose these things and How I can work with them

[00:22:40] Yeah, well, that's it. So it's a really good point as well. So definitely I will pitch in about Ivo cloud Academy So we do have a we do have a phenomenal education platform that we call it as Ivo cloud Academy if if you will visit our website

[00:22:57] That is www.ivocloud.com You will visit our website and you will hit the tab On top you will see an academy so there are multiple different tabs on top and you will see one of the one of the tab is academy and

[00:23:11] you click on that and you will see learning opportunities and then after that you see multiple different options because this platform is we are focusing on blended learning and the goal from our side is to offer the education as your education your way means that

[00:23:29] You can get the education wherever you would like to Okay, if you would like to have in-person programs, we do have multiple in-person programs at our facility as well. So

[00:23:41] Definitely you can register for those programs but at the same time we do have lots of online content as well So we do have live webinars We do have on-demand webinars as well

[00:23:52] And we do have professional tip videos or instruction for use videos as well. And all of these things are free of cost And these webinars are will provide you the ce credits as well so For the listeners, I just I just went to the website

[00:24:12] And I have to tell you It's it's really straightforward Like you did i'm literally looking at the tabs you're talking about and they have you know direct restorative cad cam indirect dedicated to dso removable frost Professional like this is really cool. This is really cool

[00:24:26] If you haven't seen this it's worth any i'm i'm going to put the link in the show notes But all I did was I just googled ivaclar academy and it kind of the first link went right to this

[00:24:35] It is really well put together. Wow, that is really cool I knew I knew that you guys had this but I hadn't looked at it close and this is like

[00:24:42] You click on it and there's the course and so you're saying they can get ce with this as well. Is that right? Yes Yes. Yes alan. So that's correct and we are building more and more content right now So again in next couple of months, you will see

[00:24:56] Really good content from multiple different speakers Nationally and internationally and then at the same time we do have a really phenomenal team of experts at ivaclar as well We do have clinicians. We do have lab technicians and all

[00:25:11] So you will see lots and lots of content that we are building it right now And we will publish it on academy very soon. So so yeah, definitely keep an eye I will say And then we are focusing a lot

[00:25:24] Not only on the analog side but also on a digital side as well So lots and lots of content both on analog and digital And also on topics like cementations and diet restoratives as well That's really cool. That's really cool you know, it's funny because

[00:25:43] You know, there's a lot of places you can go to see stuff like this you can go to youtube now, but but I got to tell you that that Uh, particularly if you're using a particular, you know, if you're using ivaclar materials and stuff

[00:25:55] This is really very specific to to what you're looking for. It's really well put together I I just I I should be paying attention to what you're saying, but i'm just zooming through this is really cool. This is great Thank you

[00:26:06] And then I will also add might be like if you do have any questions regarding any of our products as well Our sales team is very knowledgeable. Feel free to reach out to the sales team as well They will be more than happy to assist you

[00:26:20] In that direction to get the right indications right instructions for use as well Any literature you need and then in addition to that if you have more questions, feel free to give us a call And I used to take lots and lots of call. I still do it

[00:26:36] And again, you're talking directly with me. You do have dental experts who will able to assist you And yeah, so we can share our knowledge we can share what exactly we do in the r&d lab

[00:26:47] We can share the insights about different clinical protocols and all that stuff So again as ivaclar as a company We focus on education very strongly And we try our best to support our customers in the best possible way

[00:27:03] That's really cool. It's really cool. I got to tell you a story uh, this is you'll love this this is this is uh Okay, so I have a I had a patient I actually i've had several patients just recently that have complained about

[00:27:16] Dental sensitivity which of course is like one of the most common Things you're going to run into and and there's literally nothing worse than post cementation Dental sensitivity when you're where you're looking at it going Okay well

[00:27:26] I probably could have dropped this margin a little bit and they wouldn't it wouldn't have been exposed and it's since in there They they love everything about the crown except it's just really sensitive to cold Uh sometimes sweet usually cold

[00:27:36] And uh, or someone comes in that hasn't been in for a while they have some perio they have some recession And they're very cold sensitive. They're convinced that that it's like a root canal tooth. There's no decay It's just they have a ton of exposure

[00:27:47] So I started using uh, the the adhese pen the first off there's to me There's nothing better than a really convenient, uh delivery system And so as soon as you as soon as I need a brush that I have to dip into a dish i'm i'm out

[00:28:02] I'm out. I'm just I can't stand that and I know I'm like there's I like it to be simple. So the adhese pen is very simple but more and like you said you can use it, uh total etch you can use it with with uh

[00:28:15] You know an etching gel you don't have to you can use it as a self-etch You can use it as an intermediate whatever you want to do but what i've found when someone is describing something to me that is

[00:28:25] Dental hypersensitivity I dry it I put on a couple layers of that air Light it and it works like 90 plus percent of the time. It's like It's amazing. I had a woman. This is so great last week. She

[00:28:40] She called she said whatever you did last week that stuff is the armor of god. She literally said that to me. She said She came in she had just horrible Well, I just laughed because

[00:28:52] I I think I think the bonding agent's really good. The delivery system is really good The delivery system is probably the best part about it in the reality is like I haven't gotten that from other bonding agents I haven't gotten armor of god comments. It's so good

[00:29:07] and I so I keep that stuff close by for I mean not just for not just for using it with restorations, but like It's a silly thing. I mean, okay, we we try and treat post

[00:29:17] Post-operative sensitivity in so many different ways. This is my go-to now and i've tried i've tried a lot of things this is the most reliable for me and it seems like kind of a It's it it makes sense

[00:29:27] But it's I just a bonding agent hasn't been what I necessarily went to but lo and behold I think because of the delivery system how easy it is. I just reach for it and it works great No, thank you. Alan. Thank you for sharing that story and

[00:29:39] someone asked like long time ago someone asked from me is Will you use this particular adhesive in your mouth? And I said like without any hesitation A combination of adhesive universal along with very like aesthetic if I need a crown in my mouth, I will use it

[00:29:57] And I do not have any restrictions any doubts on it. I have tested it a lot I have done tons and tons of research on both adhesive universal and whaling aesthetic as well. And these are bulletproof materials

[00:30:11] And yes, these are these are really good products. So thank you for sharing that story as well You made my day It's so funny because this is she's sort of a wild and crazy patient

[00:30:23] She was so happy and i'm telling you I solved the problem for and that's you know That is like every every clinician Goes into those situations going man if I can just If I can just make this go away for her

[00:30:36] We can you know, we can treat the other things that she needs treated and lo and behold it worked like a charm So it was I mean at that point it was like a hail mary now

[00:30:44] It's just my go-to because it works really well. It works consistently well, and it's very easy to apply. So I like this stuff It's awesome. That's awesome So I I think we've covered a lot here. I think I think i'm just gonna wrap it up

[00:30:56] But if if anyone has any questions, what's the easiest way? Uh to get in touch with shashi if they have questions about bonding agent that question about cement They have questions about the best indian food in a particular region. How can they get in touch with shashi?

[00:31:12] So you can do multiple different things. I'll email me That would be great as well. So my email address is a little bit long one. That's it. I'll put it I'll put in the show notes so people can get it

[00:31:23] Yeah, that would be great. And then if you would like you can message me on instagram as well Okay, and I will be happy to share my instagram account as well put that on the show Yeah, feel free to reach out to me. We'll be happy to

[00:31:37] Share anything whether it's about the food whether it's about the bonding protocol whether it's about the restorative materials We'll be happy to share that with you for sure. Oh, it's fantastic. I I really appreciate it

[00:31:48] I appreciate your background on on all these things and uh, this is interesting stuff I'm sure that we'll have lots of discussion in the very dental facebook group and shashi. I really appreciate you being on

[00:31:59] Oh, it's it's my true pleasure. Ellen. It's really nice talking with you as well And yeah looking forward to see you sometime soon in person as well. Definitely. We'll we'll talk to you again soon Awesome. Take care. Have a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye