Very Dental: Mohamed Abo-Basha Leans in to D3!

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[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_03]: This is The Very Dental Podcast.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to The Very Dental Podcast, where you'll find entertaining and relevant conversations with visionaries, clinicians, and your friends in the dental space.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, here's your host, Dr. Alan Mead.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Very Dental people, welcome to another episode of The Very Dental Podcast.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Alan Mead, I'm your host.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Join me today, a co-host, and he has his own show on our little network, The Very Dental Student Podcast.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a guest coming from 3rd year at Oklahoma.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Mohamed Abo-Basha, Mohamed, how are you doing?

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Good, so okay, I have being from the north.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the University of Oklahoma or is it Oklahoma University?

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And does the Dental School call it the University of Oklahoma?

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a weird naming tradition down there?

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Am I mistaken or is that real?

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so it's the University of Oklahoma, but it's OU.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So they just switch it on the short form.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They make us Yankees, we can't figure that stuff out.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to make sure, because I knew it was OU.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But I figured that had to be Oklahoma University, except the University of Oklahoma Mall confused anyhow.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is weird that they kind of switch it and do backwards.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So Mohamed is a third year.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording this in mid-September, so he's actually started his third year.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Because third year, if I remember correctly, is like the first full clinic year and actually starts in the summer.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right? Like you have a summer session that's kind of your third year starts then.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_01]: That's correct.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So my third year would have started the first week of June.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, and honestly, what I remember, well I, okay.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I was in remedial operative by summer of third year, so I didn't get to see patients.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking that it made me so much less than everyone else.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: What's interesting?

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That was, that was helpful for me because I had basically private lessons with an operative instructor for four or five weeks to get my skills back up.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I wouldn't recommend failing operative, but I worked out pretty good for me at the time.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't feel like it because everyone else was doing clinic and stuff.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, so what I didn't get to do is experience with all my classmates the first time giving anesthesia, first time being the first time sitting your own crown or first thing, all that stuff.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: They were all kind of ahead of me on that deal.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I, I try not to remember it too much.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a, a deltschool sucked for me.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But I do, I mean, I remember enough that third year was kind of cool because you didn't have quite as much of an academic load so you could actually focus a little bit more on seeing patients.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, so for your clinic experience, if you don't have a patient schedule.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, first off are there two clinic sessions.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in your day, I'm guessing you've got an, a lecture or two maybe early in the morning, then you've got, is it two clinic sessions like a morning session and afternoon session?

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on, so.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: If we look at the week as it having a possibility of having ten total sessions, we only have five where we're in comprehensive care seeing adult patients.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And then two where we're seeing pediatric patients.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other three half days are either independent study or a class or something like that.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. Okay. So you've got seven clinic sessions typically that you kind of got to be an odd when I remember.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was one of the only classes at the University of Minnesota where if you didn't have a patient, you had to be doing something at the dental school where you had to be accounted for.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of us did not have a big patient load, especially third year or so.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember we had to collect these ridiculous green sheets and I will tell you, I did they would assign you two two different things that you'd get your green sheets and I did oral medicine diagnosis.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They, they were assigned me to there and so basically you'd be doing comprehensive exams. I must have done 50 of those buggers because you got to had you got to get your green sheet.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I did and I really then struckters in OMD. I really liked a lot.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But you once you'd finish your oral medicine diagnosis, you had to go do treatment planning and they didn't really want the person.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The treatment planning is funny. You do treatment planning.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the patient got assigned after the treatment plan was making you imagined having to deal with someone else's dumb treatment plan.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course in treatment planning you had different part time instructors there all the time.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So your treatment plan routinely was changed once the poor patient was actually in the clinic where you were going to do the work I was a mess, the hot mess.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And I also did way more full mouth sets of radiographs than we're required. I still did not get a great grade in oral radiography because you know, I probably, you're, you're grade in dental school is based on 20 full mouth sets that you took.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And you could do as many full mouth sets that you wanted. It was the best 20 that you got. I never got over a B. I took a lot of full mouth sets too. God, that was awful.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't have, you have digital radiography for, yes, okay.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We did not. So we would take a full mouth set. We take a full mouth set with film. We go in. We develop the film.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And we put them in a, we put in then they get graded and they tell us which ones we had to retake. And there were a lot of them.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So your poor patient is sitting there while you're developing the stupid film and oh my god, what a nightmare.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's horrible.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, radiography such a funny thing because the other thing is is like, you hoped that you didn't need to take any extra on your patients all the time.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that you'd get the full mouth set. And you hope like crazy. That was all you're going to have to do because if you had to take an extra like in the middle of an operative session,

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You had to find like they had like two x-ray heads on the floor and you had drag your patient way over to like, it's not. It was really.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I got out of dental school, I didn't realize that we took quite a bit more x-rays on people than then you were you.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You hoped like crazy in dental school you didn't have to take an extra because it was such a hassle to do it. So you got, you got extra is right and you can probably take a writing the operative area.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of how it works for us is there will be like a screening appointment.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like a one and a half hour appointment which I mean in my opinion should be long enough to do a whole comprehensive exam.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. But we do a screening appointment at that time.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's whenever we kind of just figure out in general how many teeth need something and like how many approximate endos does this patient need, how many approximate crowns does this patient need and filling space.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they go into this this like patient pool and get assigned to an actual student.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then the student does a full work up. Yeah, which sometimes takes two or three full sessions.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So and if it's if it's a patient that like so we have to do consultations with each department ever each thing we're going to do.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So if it's a patient who needs an implantology or fo RPD and though like it could take like you could it could be a 12 hour work up basically.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And you and the classic thing is you do. Do you do do the exam? Is there like a like we never even had like we didn't even have like a home base clinic where we did the it sounds like you have a comprehensive care clinic that's the is relatively consistent is that right.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: That's correct. So they.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So they us we're assigned to a clinic like our home clinic and that's where we basically do operative and fixed.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, essentially. Yeah, and there's isn't is in our home clinic it'd be like basic restorative stuff right. That's kind of okay. Okay.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a separate clinic just for work up some pro fees and maintenance and SRP and that stuff.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then so like a hygiene clinic and a work up clinic and then we have a separate one for endo and a separate one for oral surgery, a separate one for RPD.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So even though they're called the comp care clinics.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really only just like the very basic stuff happens there, but that's where you like you'll have your faculty like your general practice director the ultimate person who swipes on the master treatment.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. So you have the same person that you're working the treatment plan up with each time that's like or the same group of people that is kind of guiding you.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that right? Yeah, essentially. Yeah, that's how that's the idea sometimes you end up so smart it's so smart.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I remember we would not have the same first off you'd work up the treatment plan in the treatment clinic which was you know like four chairs over from the oral medicine diagnosis clinic.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So you just finished doing this comprehensive exam. You move over in a treatment planning and that's when the black hole starts because you're trying to run around to different floors to get your consults from pario.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And fixed and God help you if you need a depressed consult because they were going to make you wait forever.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically, you kind of get the word out what you need to just sit around wait for people to show up to do the consultation was a nightmare.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the people that the instructors working in treatment planning were dentists that like head practices a lot of times they were part time faculty.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So they actually, you know, it's not like they weren't seeing patients on there but but God help and they weren't going to help you make a decision when you might need a consultation from the specialty clinic.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So you just, I just remember it was just all waiting in your patient was like, great, you know, like this was before smart phones man. This is the four patients good.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: God bless anyone that came to university on this soda because they just there's there is no appointment that wasn't three hours long and a lot of times you didn't get even done even at that.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just remember that, but it sounds like at least they've kind of you can get a lot of funny thing is like operative was fillings and single unit crowns typically gold.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And our fixed cross clinic was crowns and bridges, but it could be gold crowns. It could be porcelain fees to metal crowns.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So operative and fix like like the trick was whatever crowns you could do get them done in operative because operative was going to get you through faster fixed.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Met you had to deal with a cross faculty and they were slow as molasses and they you know, so they sort of loved having 10 students walking around after them a line of people needing them and they they like to be needed.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I think where the operative clinic had more faculty that were part time and just we're going to help you get this stuff done.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I say this it's been a while. It's been a long time, but I sort of remember that vividly you did as much as you could in the operative clinic, but we didn't have a I love the idea that you have a kind of a comprehensive care clinic where you have the same you're working with the same faculty so you've got some consistency because we never had that we never had you rolled the dice you never knew you're going to have an any clear you know just like after while you'd figure out who is going to be there on what days and you got to be friendly with certain so you kind of made it so there was consistency.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You try and schedule these patients on Tuesday afternoon because you knew you're going to have this instructor who you clicked with and stuff.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was you had to you had a monkey with the system a little bit if I remember correctly.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do really like that.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of what we do have consistency with our general practice director or our GP is what we call them and they're there a GP they're not a specialist.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they're they're the ones we do any fixed with so whether it's like a single unit or bridge or anything.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We do it with them so I like that a lot and then in fourth year we work with them for operative as well.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But as a third year there's operative faculty in the clinics that kind of help yep.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I like it I think it's a definitely a better system than then maybe what you're describing but still has it still has its flaws for sure.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So I jumped ahead a little bit because I just started wanting to talk about talk about clinic stuff and it was like so third year starts in June you basically finish your second year.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You have like five seconds off you started to.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's your experience been with clinic is it I mean, I know that you guys had a fair amount of chance to work with like upper classmen in the clinic when you are I remember you telling me that but like how has your experience been compared to what you thought it was going to be.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And what tell me what like a regular day is you know in June did you have do you have academic classes or was it just clinic in the summer.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So we still had classes.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually there's no rest for them wicked I remember that we at least we didn't have classes in the summer we just had clinic.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually the summer for us was still pretty busy in terms of course load but it was definitely more manageable and then in the summer we only had we hadn't started peed.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So we only had five clinic sessions and pretty much across the board nobody was fully booked over the third year because like stuff still getting transferred down from the graduate class.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the fourth years obviously have priority because they there's the guy who are there for the patients they need for graduation stuff so.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So we were pretty I mean I had a lot of free time over the summer but that being said I was also like not completely freed like some of my classmates maybe only saw two or three.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Patients for an appointment or summer yeah so I was I was doing like a little bit better than that I was able to get some some experience for sure.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But things really picked up this fall is what I'd say yeah yeah yeah what would have okay so.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: What time to school start and is it typically two lectures in the morning.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Typically one okay seven forty five and then we'll get out of that like eight forty.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have twenty minutes to set up in clinic and then and then we'll get out of clinic in the afternoon like four okay okay yeah about how it works but then like on for example on Wednesdays we have.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We have class all day basically okay yeah you have class all day like lecture class all day yeah okay what okay so first is it first semester.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Well first I guess fall semester like what classes are you do you have right now.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're in an implantology class.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool that's a like a four hour class that's our biggest class we're taking.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay and then we have.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And applied pediatric it's like a piece piece two basically yeah yeah and then we have an oral medicine class okay and then we have a class it's a short course.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Just four week course on alcohol abuse and drug addiction.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh interesting okay so that's we have one more week of that and then.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What okay so is that like is that for how you deal with patients with that or is that in reference to.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You know dentists that could get in trouble with drugs now calming that's kind of my specialty but I'm just I'm curious that like what what is the course about.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's both so.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The first two sessions were about like us as providers yeah and kind of understanding.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know alcohol abuse and drug addiction.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Cool how it goes.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: How it comes up.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So we actually had.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We had two people come and give us a lecture to they're not dentists but we had an MD and a veterinarian kind of lecture us about their stories.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Veterinarians they like their academy.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you that I know that for sure yeah yep yeah so yeah I mean that was really crazy.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: He told us that out of his class and he hasn't been out that long.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That there's already like more than 10% of his class has has passed away from suicide or.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow okay so it's passed away.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow I was going to say my class there's a whole bunch of us there that that have had some kind of run in for with drugs now alcohol whether it's recovery or or worse where they got in trouble for something or whatever but.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't talked with many of them.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that they're out there I've talked with them.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I mean I've been real public about my end of it but it is funny that you know dental school was dental school was our coping mechanism was alcohol and you know at the time I drank like everyone else did.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I think it's important to do a class like that but it's also it's weird that I don't know.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I think this is they bring when they bring the people into lecture.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember I was that guy in the cam okay whatever I mean that's that's you except it was me too.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It is weird I mean I think it's valuable.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's not like it's valuable information but it's we're just not ready to hear it maybe no no and we feel like they're just trying to check the box saying that they are.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: For sure that that's what they are doing and you're right.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I appreciate the honesty and the reality is like so much of dental school is timed poorly with regard to.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You know here's the thing.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: We had had an economic you know it was the third part of gross anatomy our kidavers were oh God I feel bad for the people that donated their bodies to the university so to dental students.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't we were learning to dissect poorly at the same time that we were supposed to be actually learning gross anatomy I'm thinking of myself.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Why would you have us like dissection is a whole different.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like skill set then learning anatomy might my sister and lots of positions she said oh yeah we just the kidavers were already dissected when we got in there we just learned this structure like oh my God imagine just learning the structures and not wrecking everything because you're trying to dissect them.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Like on some level by the time we got to head neck our cadavers were wrecked they were just like we worked over and try to awful to say but dried out and on stuff like.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine being able to take head and neck anatomy as a senior after you've actually seen some patients and you have some some.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You have an idea of you have context you know you know okay so this is what I'm giving in and a block on the lower.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm doing you know I would I would like to take a class like that right now after I've been doing this for you know almost 30 years right it's like.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: The context is always ridiculous on those things it's like they have to teach at some time and in a lot of cases they're teaching in it at a time where you don't really understand enough to get that much out of the class I have regrets on that you know.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be completely like even our.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Comprehensive occlusion class like that's like what people all do and to become like comprehensive dentists yep and we're doing it like.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: The first semester of the school and it does seem like everything happens at their own time.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean oral anatomy was given at the right time but even that they we didn't have any actual clinical component to that all they needed to do.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Was let us go up with a partner in the clinic and give us a mirror and an explore and let us look at people's teeth a little bit we never really did that it was always models and type in on's that.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The reality is we had no context for lips cheeks tongue and all that stuff I just it's funny and I like I say this like I could do it so much better I don't know that I could but it's it's.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It is a really weird thing that's they're teaching us stuff that we have no context for that would be you know there's classes now like I said 25 30 years out I'd love to take those class again just because I have a I have an understanding of the material now you know it's like because I've actually worked on patients I know.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So you've got you've got and you don't have it doesn't sound like you have a specific pediatric rotation it sounds like you have pediatrics throughout your third year is that right.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we so we have.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Pediatric patients assigned to us okay that we follow up on okay and but then we also have.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Rotations that would take kind of are we that they would take up the two pediatric points for that week okay so we have like an emergency rotation and we have like.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Screening like a workout rotation repeats and then we have like a complex restorative look rotation as well okay so I haven't had.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Those rotations yet so I don't really know much about them but.

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[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's some rotations within that as well so.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember I want to say that we had a pediatric rotation where where it was morning or afternoon for like a month or two months it was all pediatric and then we were done like so you got your pediatric rotation you were done.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And like it was half a day so one half of the day you do regular clinic and the other half of the day you were in the pdo clinic and you saw whatever came in in the pdo clinic.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot of exams and trophies on the little kids there was not a ton of restorative that I remember.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And on some level they were true I think the pediatric people were sort of screening the kid the delstins came through for the ones that look like they had an interest in.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And pediatric so they don't get them to get them to apply for the residency they were nice they were nice but I feel like we got we got kind of a glancing blow of pediatrics and everyone was just sort of glad when they but it was always third year.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And as always pediatric dentistry was third year and oral surgery was typically the very end of third year or summer of third year or senior year those are the two leg rotations where you were there for a month or two at a time those were I think those are and we didn't really have a.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You were required to do some some pario surgery with either a resident or a pario faculty they wanted you to do at least one pario surgery.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was you as you would be the operator yeah and what happened was one of the sweetest nicest instructors at the University of Minnesota.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was so scared I didn't really know what I was doing he knew that and he was very kind about it and I got to tell you back in the late 90s.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There weren't a lot of kind instructors at the University of Minnesota there were not a lot that understood me and he really did he really did I think I think he just recently passed away doctor back to she was fantastic sweetest guy ever met really skilled clinician but a great teacher and just a really nice guy.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The pediatric people really nice to we had an ortho rotation that didn't we didn't see any patients we just they they showed us that.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: They had a striped bending wires and got us frustrated and basically he did you came in knowing you wanted to go to ortho and you figured that stuff out later and they taught you enough to know how to fill out our referral.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And we had a lot of problems with the hospital.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a endoclinic we had to do some window.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: There was not any rotary and it was all handfiles and it was pretty tedious.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, as one of the things where you did what you had to do and then the people that had real interest in it they knew they knew who the people that were interested in and know you know is like.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd spend all your extra time in the end of your one of those people so how how how do you do is there an endoclinic specifically for you.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is but it's kind of like it's you do the work on your patients.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So if your patients don't need to endo then you're kind of just out of luck until and then fourth year they figure out the students who need to need to endo for the requirements and then they just like drop it into their schedule.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: By yeah, so it's it's something where you just schedule it once you have a patient then visit and we're we're only needing like six canals to graduate.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not very much and most people struggle to get it even just the six canals.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like there's a graduate I'm assuming there's a graduate program there.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There's not actually but they okay interesting.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They just really there's an HD program okay and I guess they do they do some of them do a lot of endo.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I guess they really just are very.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, picky about the cases that they approve for these student clinics sure.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So interesting what happens if there's a tough case it comes in but you know they want to keep in the clinic they refer them out or they will refer them out if the patient's willing to do that.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're unfortunately like the patient doesn't want to pay private practice fees and we just pull out the tooth.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean that's that's the upside is suppose of having a grad clinic because you can I mean for the tougher cases you send those to the.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If you guys have any micriscopes in the endo clinic or no.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, no, we I don't know if they maybe have one that they roll out when they need it.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when I've went up there.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: People have just been.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: They're doing it with their.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and again that's the thing where you got it and if you've got a graduate clinic they probably got all that stuff in there but that's interesting that's very interesting.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So you've got a is your pediatric rotation just third you are the pediatric the two sections per week is that just third year or does that go on through fourth year to it goes on through fourth year as well.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you get a lot of pedodon.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so and also they just start we just started a pediatric residency like this year.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you so we also have a rotation where a hospital rotation with with the pediatric residency where it's like I guess you see more complicated more complicated medically patients and also just more complicated cases.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's something I'll look forward to next year.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be next year.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that is that hospital rotation always pedo or is it is it other cases too?

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's one for pedo and then there's a hospital rotation for oral surgery as well.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had a hospital dentistry rotation I want to say it was like a month and it was again a half day and maybe it was just a couple weeks I can't remember but you know you're supposed to see a couple of our surgery see could experience what that was.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's usually working from the oral surgeons in the you know in the oral surgery department and a lot of times they're sagittal split you know.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: With my friend Bruce he and I were the were the I want to say it was.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we were seniors we're the two taken it that taken that rotation that that two week period and we were scheduled to see and we're all surgery.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And and and it got canceled and so we're sitting there going oh man you really needed to see a surgery.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, turns out a guy by the name of Nigerian who is who is a trans plant guy he invented a medication for an entire rejection drug that was pretty

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: controversial in Minnesota in the mid 90s.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He saw us and was like man, you know he saw us kind of in the OR of waiting room going God what we're going to do we got to get a surgery.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: He invited us in to see a surgery he was doing he was transplanting a kidney.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And the first off the guy was he was just an absolute mountain of a man he had to be six eight or something like that.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course you if you listen to the news in Minnesota his name got thrown around a lot because he was having all these lawsuits with his with his medication.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly what's going on but like there and so if you if you listen to the news you probably thought it was some awful guy who isn't you know nicest guy you ever met.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And he made sure that us stupid dental students that were looking to look at an OR for a little got to see everything like so.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know we're sitting here thinking we're going to watch we're going to watch some oral surgeon do you know advanced someone's mandible.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, we got we got the bodies wide open and he's so in in a kidney and he's like okay.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys have to get the best view in the house when we produce this kidney for the first time it's crazy got this like this kidney that looks like just as white as snow and they they unhook all the.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: All the things that are keeping the blood from flowing into an all sudden it perfumes with blood it's pretty brown like this is most amazing thing I've ever seen my life and I you know I'm kind of glad I got to see that instead of the mandible surgery to be perfectly honest.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But like what's so funny now Melissa Zettler who's been on the show a bunch of times she was she graduated a couple years ahead of me from Minnesota.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: She was in and I want to say she was in a GPR at the University of Minnesota and so she was a GPR she was a resident she saw that surgery too we are all masked up I didn't know she was in there I mean I knew or from she was a silo man guy knew right but we're all masked up I didn't know it was not till a couple years ago when I was telling that's during like I think I must have seen the same surgery that.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You did so little behold she was in that surgery too is pretty great I will say hospital dentistry is funny because no one's trying to recruit you for any kind of a hospital dentistry you know career and I that was a pretty cool rotation that might have been one of my favorite rotations interestingly.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm trying to think so what when do you do oral surgery?

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't my first oral surgery rotation a couple weeks ago.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so there's only a few 30 years that go each week okay and but we'll all get one this semester.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I was in the I was in the very first one.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you mostly assisting four years or do you get to take T-tho?

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd take 14th out.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, well then crazy so it was a whole week six we took up one of our pediatric sessions.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it was six sessions.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I got to take out four teeth.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a good experience.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But what's nice about that is since I've done that rotation there's like a free extraction clinic on Monday.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that I can go that I can go to so I went to that this Monday and I was able to extract four more teeth.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't beat that experience.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is the person you're working with in that free clinic wants to get a bunch of teeth out there.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So they want to they want to get you elbow deep in that stuff.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I never that was way too scared.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: They had something in St. Paul and I never went and from my friends always went said it was great.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I was so scared and that was when things were in dental school.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one of the reasons I was I just didn't have coping skills all the way around and so I kept my head down and never tried anything weird at all.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that would have been such a good experience such a good experience.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You got in dental school.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't break anything that they don't have to fix understand that.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So you should try everything and if you get a chance to do something weird, do it because you know what they got to fix it.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: If you screw it up, you know, you're I know that sounds silly but it's true.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was exact opposite.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I was not adventurous in dental schools the time to trial it crazy stuff.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think I know you well enough that I know you do that stuff.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll go in the other thing Muhammad has that almost no one has in his class.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: He was a dental assistant for a year.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So you saw a whole and you were a dental assistant in all surgery clinic.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be teaching that stuff for crying.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You saw a ton of stuff.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw nothing like that.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to say that anyone who's been chair side with dentist or even a hygienist has such a huge advantage once clinic starts because you're much more comfortable.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Just do and just go through the motions because you've seen it all so much.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's also like it's not just the assisting experience that it's many more comfortable.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also like the amount of content.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can assume just like hearing people talk about it.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It has make it less foreign, I guess.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And then also seeing it like definitely seeing it for a whole year before starting dental school definitely helped as well.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Like for sure.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But also just like constantly hearing people talk about different procedures and stuff.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'll watch a bunch of extraction videos on YouTube where Instagram and that's honestly like that was the number one thing that was like okay.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go to this extraction clinic and I'm going to try to pull some teeth.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like the first case that came in had like a couple fully erupted wisdom teeth that needed to take out.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give it a try.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like and it actually turned out being way easier than the other teeth.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: erupted wisdom teeth are awesome.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you that.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing like an upper erupted wisdom tooth if you can get your instrument into the two-star.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_01]: The out essentially it's fantastic.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty cool and I have to say since I you know, I'm old enough that that wasn't available.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have classmates that are not interested in that kind of stuff video and put like they they don't or does everyone get a little bit of you know outside content because I feel like that that'd be super valuable.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It'd be super valuable.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's a very small portion of my class.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that like really.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It consumes a bunch of content like so a lot of people will follow like a cosmetic dentist, the Instagram or something.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But um, but I think that's the extent of it.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they just like follow some cosmetic dentists see a bunch of like smile makeovers.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the level of consumption that they have.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is I mean it's good.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That's still good.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean it's good, but it's not the same as like following oral surgeons that put videos up like oh my gosh.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so much so much stuff you can I mean there's actually the ones that sort of revel in the blood and guts of it are kind of fun to watch and get into it too.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even like like uh, doctors of pata.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, hornets of bass.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Facebook group.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all those microscope videos.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the most like I wish there was just libraries of microscope videos every procedure.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on YouTube because I feel like that's the best way to learn.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You see everything very clearly.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you see exactly what he's doing.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, yeah, he's he is the master at that.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Although honestly some of these scopes.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I could be doing some of that stuff and I just don't think to do it.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because it's like I got a scope where I get to pull the trigger and record everything.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can do it through the scope, you can see it.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I should do that because I didn't think about like it's one thing when you know they're putting all these killer surgeries with what about like for the third.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a big deal.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, you know, you can do that.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I could drill that.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that'd be different.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's good.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even if you just do any type of any type of dentistry through a scope, if you could record that.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And just like start compiling a library.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you students will value in that.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why that's why, that's why, um, oh, Ash that that's why I mean his channels.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: All things dentistry is fantastic because he does every different microscope.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got to figure it out.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you see, you know, the two between him and Jorge, you basically learn to be a dentist in your, in your chair at home.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's pretty great.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I watch the all things dentistry videos a lot as well.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, uh, and you know, Jazz Gullotti has he, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Through the loops, yeah.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Gamers that I like to watch it.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I like any videos he posts.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I watch those as well.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I got a lot of respect for those guys because they'll go out of their way to do that content.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even that freaking hard.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I got I'm so set up to do it.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just never think to do it.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: The record next time.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I should be.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: The editing is a bit of a pain because a lot of it is somewhat boring, but I'm like, you know what?

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Someone who's interested in seeing what's going on.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to care that much.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyhow, that's interesting.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I feel like I've talked a lot.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not in dental school anymore and you are.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm trying to think we've talked about rotations.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about a day in the life.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Most days, you're going to get at least one if not two sections of actual clinical dentistry.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like, how do you feel like you're progressing?

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're still early on in the, you know, being able to, I'm a clinic.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what?

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: What is the thing that in any given appointment?

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the thing that hangs you up the most is the anesthesia?

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it what's the thing that if you're going to get nervous about something?

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you get nervous about?

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely is to very early in my progression.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say that the hardest thing right now is just like just streamlining kind of my work flow.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And not thinking so much about everything.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_00]: There's like, I'll literally like dream about what I'm going to do.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Then I know the next day.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that this is because like for example, I have my first, my first two crowns I'm cementing tomorrow.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been thinking about it for like a month because it's like, it's like this event that's going to happen.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: That I haven't done yet.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's just a matter of getting those reps in.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's nothing when I actually sit down to do.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing that I feel like is like a monster.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just all of it all at once and kind of keeping everything straight along with, you know,

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: like some of the annoyances of like it being a dental school and the inefficiencies along with that.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, yeah.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I would say that the oral surgery rotation made me realize that maybe I'm not getting as good of anesthesia as I thought.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Because like sometimes you know, you're doing operative, the patient might have been okay without the anesthesia anyway.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And some feelings.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So like, you're not testing on as much as your surgery.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was giving good blocks up until the oral surgery rotation.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I kind of realized like I definitely need to practice more on my blocks.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess the only way to do that is reps as well.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to, I'm going to put up a video in the show notes.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I've put it up a thousand times but guy by name, a Tommy Murphy.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He's given a video on how to give a lower block in the thing that he gets the

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: best is the anatomy.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I was, I'm during my career.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had parts where I've missed.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had a hard time getting blocks even though I'm supposed to know better.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Tommy's video man, I'll put it up.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's great.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't inject his fastest Tommy does.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do that.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But his anatomy, the way he describes the anatomy is so dead on and it has worked for me so well.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Blocks are, and I know that a lot of people like I don't even do blocks anymore.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, well good for you.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I do.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing is every dental student should, I don't know if they have these available.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys have period on a ligaments orages available?

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think they're in the clinic.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They definitely don't give it to us in our cassette.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you'd have to, maybe it's something we could check out.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: You should see me.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll never tell you what.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So I talk about these things all the time.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They're company called Scepted On.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They're stupid expensive there.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a period on a ligament syringe called the,

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, it's the pair of jacked is what it's called.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I call it the pencil when I'm asking for it for my assistant.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I call it the pencil.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I probably have eight of these things in my office.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And particularly like for instance, if you can place a rubber dam,

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't matter what tooth you're putting their retainer on.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't matter what you need gingival anesthesia around that tooth.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to actually have pulpal anesthesia to the,

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but you need ging, and it, and not just like a little bit,

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you need that tooth, you need that gingery dead.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to be able, you would need to be able to lay a flapp on that tissue.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can do that, you will never struggle to get a rubber dam on because you can place a rubber dam retainer

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: super deep into the sulcus.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: If it's numb like that, it's like, it's like putting it on an oak board.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like nothing.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And they, and honestly, the patients just don't complain about it.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you've got a, if you can place your retainer really solidly,

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll never have that stupid thing where you're putting the dam on and things

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: pings across the room and stuffy because you know that you've set that thing

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: just like you've just like on a solid tree branch.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to tell you, for every extraction I do, no matter how well I think my anesthesia is,

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I want that period on a ligament syringe and I want the tissue around whatever tooth

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm taking out to blanch.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I want it white, and they just do amazing.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that that's probably a little overkill.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll have a pencil shaped or a pen shaped one that used your finger.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: They also have one they call the intro leg, which is a gun.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the most intimidating looking thing ever, but you're able to get that pressure.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: These are both pressure syringes. So you're actually, and I almost always use an extra short needle.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Now you can do gingerful anesthesia with a regular needle, but it's hard.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You really got to push out on your heart because you need the pressures.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: This pressure syringes I swear by them.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like if, if Sep the Don't want it to make loyal, loyal,

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_01]: consumers for life, they give it down student every down student just has their own

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_01]: character.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Because once you know you can use that, oh, what a useful thing that is.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's actually when you've got a patient that you think is numb, but you're like, I'm going to

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: make sure I give palalins with that thing all the time.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the best.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, palalinacidia does not scare me at all anymore, because I feel confident I could do that with

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that ligaments, be parent on ligaments syringe, which is it's almost silly that I'm talking about this one.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to talk about third year, but this is a tip that I profound anesthesia makes the patient

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_01]: think you are rock star.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: They just think you can do no wrong.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, they might be sore the next day.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They're not thinking about when you're working on them.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're just super numb and they just get, they just can just take their brain and go away.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It is really good.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, get those blocks right.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But use as much anesthesia around the tissue that you can get as well, no matter what syringer you're using.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And patients will friggin' love you.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't learn that probably till, no, within the last 10 years to be honest.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it just makes such a huge difference for me.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was going to ask you when you were talking about it if you used it on the palate, but you'd be even too...

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're going to use it on the palate, take a mirror and hold it, hold it kind of upside down.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And hold it in your palm and you press on that palate as hard as you can.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Press on the with the mirror handle like you're trying to push it into their brain.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they won't feel the, they won't feel the intro ligament serengetal.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I will tell them it's going to pinch like crazy and they always say, I don't feel anything.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel you pushing on me.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can kind of, you can kind of tell them a little lie in that palate, I'm telling you.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a place in rubber dam clamp on number 14 and you've got palate anesthesia and decent buckling.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: You could put that thing apically as far as you want, it won't matter.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And it'll stay on their so solid, it's the best thing ever.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But it takes that palate anesthesia and I think people are afraid too because it hurts.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that tissue's really tight against the palate but you can sneak past it with a mirror handle.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have to ask around if we have someone can check out or something like that.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And you could become the guy who checks it out and everyone's going, what are you doing with that?

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That one's going to want you have to fight for it.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So don't tell everyone unless they've got a bunch of them.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember that when there was always one instrument someone was trying to go, man, I'm going to try that.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what we recently, I saw somebody checking how to P.A.Zo.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And the pario clinic and I was like, I didn't know we had P.A.Zo.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the cool.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all.

[00:44:25] Okay.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So anesthesia is still, you're still getting your legs under your for anesthesia.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of patient management stuff have you run into?

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Anything that surprised you or not really?

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Patients that'll go to a dental school, particularly if they've been going to the dental school,

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: they know how it works better than you do a lot of them.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just wondering, have you run into patient management issues or not really?

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So most of my patients have been new patients that I worked up myself.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have noticed, I mean, I have a few patients that have already canceled several times.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I have one patient that I saw for the first workup appointment in the summer.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I haven't seen them to finish the video.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't showed up yet.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the most annoying thing is just cancelations.

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't really blame them because I wouldn't want to show up to a three hour point man.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in brother either.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's just, that's the most frustrating thing.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But otherwise, my patients have all been really good.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't experienced like any, any type of really difficult to deal with patients.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I know there's some out there floating around the patient pool, but I haven't encountered any of them.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the ones that are in the patient pool, at least they can warn you so you know it to expect.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like I got I got a for a denture for a denture patient.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I had an I knew woman that I ended up doing, I think it was 26 or 27 appointments on a denture.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: In the day she left, she was wearing the denture. She came in with she hated my denture.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And as it turns out, they assigned this woman to a third year every year.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the same woman who is never happy with her denture.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking myself, that's a rotten thing to do to your student.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So the terrible thing to do to your student.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Bastard's gave me the woman who did the same thing to the guy before me.

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He tried to warn me I didn't know I was awful, but like so they're out there some of them.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But most, honestly, I would say most people that would put up with going to the dental school are probably pretty great.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they definitely are for sure. It's really good on average.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm trying to think that's anything else.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I love talking about this.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's something you've got, you've got a really good start.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I like how it sounds like you're busy enough that you feel like you're making some progress.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the worst thing because we, a lot of us didn't have a good patient pool.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was hard to get up and running and it was really hard to see your classmates kicking ass when you are just having struggling to get people in.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it sounds like you're doing pretty well though.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm doing pretty good.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I also try to fit as much as I can into each appointment.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Good. So that's one thing that, that's one thing my fourth year told me last year.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: He's graduated now, but he was like, everybody's going to be so worried about getting more patients.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And having a fuller schedule.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But he was like, what you need to do is just do more when the patient's there and that will be just as good.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I've been trying to do.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's working.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm doing okay requirements wise.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm ahead of schedule, which is good.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I still haven't done much.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But I sure feel sure there's still so much to do, but on my head of the schedule they kind of lay out for us.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and then even if I don't have a patient, which is about.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's about half the time.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I don't have a patient on the schedule.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_00]: My GPD.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of a, have strongly encouraged us to find somebody to assist and do something.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good thing to do.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: First up, it's helpful for the people that are, especially if someone who's doing something for the first time, it's nice to have.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The very first time I had to give anesthesia one of my buddies really good friend who lived in the fraternity house with me was there.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't give the injection, but he might as well have because he had, he had spent the whole summer, you know, doing this.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't give anesthesia till fall of my, my junior year, my third year and it was, you know, first time you're actually given anesthesia on a real person.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, oh, you're going to go and stuff.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember that.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's good to even if even if it's boring procedure for you, having the help and is pretty great.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that vividly there in there's there's that least.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00]: A few times where I was assisting somebody and yeah, it kind of feel like boring for the most part.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But just keep the few key moments where they really needed an assistant.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's what it's kind of what was able to let them get done on time.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's happened to me as well when I'm the provider. So so I think it's, I think it's crazy that we aren't like required to have an assistant.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I know at some dental schools.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to always have an assistant and I feel like that makes for so much more sense because it does.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, why why why would you leave a dental student with no assistant and doesn't make it.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hilarious too because like you honestly don't even know how to work with an assistant when you get out.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We did we had a DAU clinic where you'd work with an assistant.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the funny thing about that was that when you had the assistant who's a well trained assistant who is actually teaching you how to work with an assistant.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I got so much of my operative requirements done in that clinic because we hauled ass, you know,

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_01]: we just we did really because the assistant made me go help me go so much faster and it was going on.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Just like, oh, I see how this is.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I totally I totally agree with that. That's funny.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, I'll go ahead. I'm sorry.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just going to say I feel like it's going to be I can't wait to just have an assistant all the time.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a it means makes everything makes everything more worthwhile and then you know how the story is.

[00:49:59] You'll.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't take very long once you start to get into the real flow of things and understand how yet you will be able to see more than two patients in a day.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You're maybe able to see more than two patients at a time.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, depending on the situation.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's it's a it's funny that I remember that with the old school man, I didn't even know how to work with assistant really.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like you'll get there and it's and you know take take those baby stuff but also like I said they got it.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_01]: They got a picture mistakes and lean on the lean on the instructors first off finding instructors that you know you can trust because some of them are jerks.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of them are really good and glad to be there unless beyond us.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I think most of them can remember being in your shoes.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the ones who are who are good humans remember that and can help you through that time.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I just remember that like that.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_01]: The ones that did when I was in dental school, I remember to this day I really valued their help so there's always going to be some people there and like I said.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Try everything if you can you know even as not something that's super interested in just having the experience and go in there.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Go in there and don't be afraid.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You know that's I will say that that's a huge thing that I never I never really learned in dental school but go in there and you know get as much experience doing all the weird stuff you can because you're paying for it.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly they can't let you hurt anyone.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: They got a picture mistakes and it sounds ridiculous but I'm just saying get in there and get it done something you're doing that well.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish that I had had that kind of advice at the time and frankly.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish that I had all the resources you guys have like podcasts and videos and all that stuff that I that technology just didn't exist but what a great thing.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's awesome that you can pretty much see any procedure you might be doing it done a hundred different ways on YouTube or talked about on podcast or so good.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's an absolute game changer.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I've said it before that like the me not getting in the dental school the first time and having a whole year to assist and listen to podcasts and go to go to go to go to work.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And do all this stuff it's like it's changed my life like I don't know if I would have ended up going down the same.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the same path of a different breed of dental student than I was and you're in much better shape than I ever was and I mean I still made it wasn't very pretty but I mean you're going to make it look pretty good.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I think got that so good.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_01]: There's what it what up.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad to hear you're doing as well as you are and I know there's stuff is going to suck don't worry it's going to suck there's going to be some but it sounds like you've got your chin up and you are getting some really good.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really good experience.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very pleased to hear that.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been on fun ride so far and I mean hoping for a lot more experience by the time we graduate.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well how many it's been great to talk to you and as always but this is really good.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit of memory lane for me but I think you're killing it so I love hearing that and we'll do it again.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll do it again in a year or so when you're starting to work here and you're ruling the world at that point.

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah I love to.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You bet thanks a ton and if you have any questions or comments I suspect a lot of our listeners have comments go to the very delphasepo group and we'll we'll homo there he'll see him and he probably like to hear from.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Grizzled veterans about their dental school days and how much better he's got it because I'm sure that's what we're all thinking.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a ton.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, go ahead.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard because I know it's like sometimes I I.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I speak like in a really positive.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of vibe just because I've gotten so used to like convincing myself that everything's always doing.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, right.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Having a good outlook.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but there's definitely like the hard.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: All the hard times and I started to.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to ignore him.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's much like a good for you and you got you.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You got your head in the right place for sure.

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I just I think I think with all I know about you definitely have your head in the right place.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a ton for being on the homo.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: This was great and we'll catch you again very soon.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.