Very Dental Student: A Contrast in First Years with Dr. Brandon Evert and Dr. Seth Braker

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[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a production of the Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's time for a Very Dental Podcast just for students and new dentists.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Very Dental Student Podcast.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And now here's your host, Mohammad Abobasha.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Very Dental Student Podcast.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Mohammad Abobasha.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm coming at you kind of with a simulcast we are doing with Extracting Wisdom.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So I've got Dr. Brandon Everett and Dr. Seth Breaker on with me today.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give these guys a chance to introduce themselves to anybody who doesn't know them.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So starting with you, Brandon, could you just introduce yourself to the listeners?

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Mohammad, thanks again for having me on tonight.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a minute since we've last talked, so I'm excited that we get to catch up and kind of see where you're at now.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: But for those who don't know me, my name is Brandon.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I am the host of the Extracting Wisdom Podcast.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's something it's pretty much a passion project of mine that I started before I even got into dental school.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's something that I carried through dental school and now my initial career in the Navy.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I was very fortunate. I got a Navy scholarship.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So for the first four years out of school, I'm going on an active duty dentist.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So I get to serve my country and serve these countries cavities and have a great time doing it.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So thanks again for having me on.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. And for anybody who didn't listen to my first episode on this segment, Brandon was my first guest.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you go back about a year, a little over a year maybe, you can go back and listen to that first episode as well.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Dr. Seth Breaker, go ahead and give yourself a little introduction for the listeners as well.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Hello. Thank you for having me.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I'm the co-host of Extracting Wisdom.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Brandon invited me to do that.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So I've been doing that for a little while. It's always been it's been kind of it's been fun because I've listened to podcasts for a long time.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And for Brandon to have me join that was pretty special.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's honestly this is just a great opportunity just for me to sit and learn, bring people on and just hear other people's experiences.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_04]: It's been a really, really it's honestly kind of a selfish thing for me.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a good thing for me just to learn from others.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's been a really nice community in that sense.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went straight into private practice out of dental school.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: So I've been at my practice now for two years.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I was an associate for the first about a little over a year and then became part owner of the practice this year.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So I've transitioned to that.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's been kind of a, you know, kind of an exciting experience for me going through all that.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So hopefully can provide some some insight into just just associateship and everything behind that.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, that's very cool.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely would love to unpack that a little more about getting into part partner ownership and and that as well.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys graduated together from the same university, is that correct?

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: We did. We sat next to each other for pretty much every single lecture.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of how our relationship began.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. The only reason we sat I sat up in the front was because of Brandon.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I would have been the one in the back of the lecture.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Brandon was always towards the front.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And he had whenever somebody would talk about implants and like referring to a specialist,

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_03]: he would have to like hold me down because I was about ready to start throwing punches.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I can imagine just from the interactions I've had with Brandon, him being the kind of student that would sit in the front row.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, that's for sure.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. One thing that I really love about the episodes you guys do together is that I get to kind of hear, you know,

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: both of you kind of talk back and forth about the differences that you guys are experiencing between, you know,

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Seth going into private practice right away and Brandon doing his military service.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess to start off, I would love to ask you guys, what do you feel like each of you has been the highlight?

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's kind of hard to pick one thing, but what's been your highlight in the first two years of practice since graduation?

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll take this one first.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of highlights that I've had my first two years,

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and I can kind of open up a little bit about this more now that I'm done there.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But I spent at Parris Island with the Marines, so I got to work on both the Marine recruits as well as active duty Marines like drill instructors and that kind of thing.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Could not have been a better experience coming right out of school.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the amount of volume and the crazy restorative things we were doing every single day was just second to none.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But I'll hone in a little bit more because I am very surgically minded.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably my highlight there was getting my credentials in the military.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're a general dentist, you have to get credentials for any extra procedures that are considered outside your scope.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I actually got all my credentials all the way up to full bony third molar impactions.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So being able to develop my surgical skills to that point has been really, really exciting and has really kind of made me think about the future of where I want to take my career.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I have some things in the works right now.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you want to dive into that a little bit later, we can.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, just being able to do that and serve our Marines at the same time and grow my surgical skills were, you know, just so exciting and so fulfilling at the same time and rewarding.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome. Yeah, we can definitely talk a little bit more about what's to come for sure.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Seth, how about for you?

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I'm curious too since we've been on a hiatus for a while to hear what's going on.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the news?

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, for me, I mean, the highlights, it's hard to really put together.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I think in dental school you sit there and you know, you take an hour and a half or two hours to do like a D.O. or something like that.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You're like, how am I ever going to, you know, build to have a full schedule of two columns and running hygiene?

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's been a really neat thing for me to see now looking back.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, okay, you know, you just do it.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's one thing from, you know, someone that's in dental school right now to be thinking about that.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, you know, how am I going to be able to do a crown X amount of time and all these fillings and have a good schedule?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And it just develops.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it really does.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just kind of organic thing that comes together.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's one thing just not to overly stress about.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Just, you know, take your steps and you will get there.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of fun right now.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_04]: We have two new associates at our group practice.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's actually there's nine practices, but they're at two other practices.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_04]: They don't work with me directly.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_04]: One does on Friday, but just even seeing them to kind of going through that evolution is neat.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I think that's been one really big highlight.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And then also just from my perspective, since I'm in prior practice, just cultural changes at the practice with me and this other doctor buying in and how we've been able to help influence the culture.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Because that's a whole nother HR and dealing with employees and helping try to cultivate a good culture is like a whole nother whole nother topic.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's that's been really rewarding, too.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So I do kind of have a follow up question for you, Seth, just because I'm interested is so are you only working out of one location?

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like a multi location group situation is what you've partnered into.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm only part owner of the one location map and we're part of a group all branded the same way, though.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's small town dental.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So we're all branded under small town.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I understand.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, that's those are both awesome things.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll definitely unpack more of both of those.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So the next thing I was going to ask was, what would you say is the the you know, the specific area of dentistry that you've improved the most in?

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know, Brandon, you already mentioned kind of the surgical side, but it doesn't even have to be nonclinical.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you mentioned, Seth, culturally as well.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Just what do you feel like you can look back at first starting and you can say, wow, I've really improved on this thing specifically?

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say besides all the surgery stuff, I would say doing the same thing every time and kind of in that patient communication as well.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's really something special that once you really get into the rhythm of things and doing things the same way, you know, that's talking to patients the same way as in like, you know, explaining procedures and having your assistant set up, you know, your your cassettes and instruments the same exact way.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You really get into a really nice flow of things.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so that's kind of the first thing is just finding what works for you and being able to just run with that and almost go on autopilot where you don't have to think about those things anymore.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: What you're focused on is the patient and kind of the work at hand that you're doing.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not worrying about all these other things when you whenever you move to a new environment like, you know, you always take a step back because everything's new, different instruments, maybe different materials that you have to learn and work with.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So, being able to kind of hone that workflow in once you get to, you know, settled in wherever you're working is, you know, something that has improved a lot.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Second thing is patient communication.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the biggest things I learned and this comes from Dr. Neki Jamal from his, you know, Third Molar's online course that Seth and I took.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And this doesn't again, this does not apply to surgery, but he has one of his sayings is explanations over excuses.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So, what that means is talking to patients about all of the possible outcomes of a procedure before you do it.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So, like let's talk about pulping a tooth for example.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: If you were just to tell a patient that you're going to do a filling today and then you get halfway through the filling and you pulp the tooth and now you have to explain to them that, you know, you're they need a root canal, maybe a core and a crown and all of these things that kind of just, you know, totally shifts their mindset.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: They thought they were there for a filling and now they're leaving knowing that they need all this additional work.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like that is, puts a strain on kind of the patient dentist relationship.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you would have just started that appointment said, hey, this looks like a bigger cavity on the x-ray.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really know what's going to happen.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it could go one of, you know, two or three ways and you explain all those ways and make sure that they understand.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that just, you know, it really helps build the trust that you have with your patients and being able to do that every single time, you know, is the point that I'm getting at.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Really just helps things number one flow better for you and your team.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But number two, help develop those relationships that you have with your patients and the trust that your patients have in you.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I really like that piece of advice because I can already point to a case I'd had in dental school that we were just supposed to be doing a filling that day.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And, and it ended up rising more.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We found a crack in the tooth.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So then it's like we're talking indirect now.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just not something the patient was ready for.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I can definitely can definitely pick up what you're putting down there.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Seth, what do you, what do you have to kind of add to that or to chime in?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, once again, this is kind of like one of those as a question that there's so many different avenues I can go with it.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_04]: From a clinical standpoint, I mean, everything has gotten, you know, more confidence, speed of my crown props, everything, you know, flow like Brandon was explaining.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, there's a lot of things that I never did in dental school that I'm doing now, which is, which is exciting and fun for me.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Like doing implants, doing a lot more surgery, doing, doing extractions, not to the same degree as Brandon, but doing a lot of, you know, a lot more surgical extractions.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, that just comes with, you know, just repetition, taking CE courses and, you know, conversations like this, you know, being like, hey, you know, what happened to you in this case?

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what do you do?

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, having that community and having mentorship is extremely vital when you first come out of dental school.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's that.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I think another thing would be just the reality is when you're the doctor, when you come out of dental school, you don't realize this, but immediately everybody looks to you as a leader.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: So be kind of be aware of that when you step into your practice or we step into whatever setting you're in because everybody's looking to you.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that was something I really wasn't really ready for right away.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, wait a second.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, everybody, everybody's expecting me to have answers.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And this sounds scary at first, but once again, it's just something you, you kind of grow into.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's been kind of a, kind of an exciting, fun thing for me.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Trying to think what else.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's, like I said, there's a lot of ways we can go with this question.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I think that's a good place to start.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I do, out of curiosity, I do want to go revisit the two things we kind of talked about.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So talk to me about how you ended up kind of finding this associateship, Seth, and then the trajectory that allowed you to kind of partner in.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can just talk about as much as you feel comfortable sharing.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, that's a good question.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So, so my wife, she's, so it was a decision between do we go back to her hometown or do we go to my hometown?

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_04]: So we were having that discussion and I just started reaching out to different doctors, especially in these rural towns.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: They're hungry for doctors.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, a lot of these dentists are.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, it's not very difficult to find places a lot of times, just looking.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went in and looked at quite a few different practices.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And really, you know, the beginning part is just, OK, do you get along with the guy?

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have the same, you know, philosophies and just good culture of the practice?

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of hard to gauge by just going in for a job show because everybody's on their good, best behavior, you know.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But you can kind of talk, kind of get a little bit of vibe by just, you know, talking to the doctor in their office and whatnot.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's a few different doctors that I was, you know, kind of debating.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, they were, you know, kind of guys I felt like they could be good mentors, people that I could learn from.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And then ultimately, then it came down to, you know, numbers too, because it's a, you know, I don't think dental school really prepares you for making that decision.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of, like you have a lot of corporate practices will come in and do like happy hours and everything and have like all these experiences.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you make connections through that.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And then a lot of these students will sometimes just not right or wrong.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing wrong with them.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just saying there's a lot of times I think they make those connections, they'll go deeper.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of the goal of a lot of those events is to make those connections.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think with that, it's important to take a step back and look at what the numbers are.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: If it's a sustainable practice for a multi-doctor, what is your trajectory?

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: What's your plans?

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you planning to be there long term?

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Are you planning to be an owner?

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, new patient count, how many new patients come in a month?

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Is this sustainable for two doctors with attrition?

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of different metrics you can look at.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And ultimately, I think it came down to for us when we looked at these different practices, there was one that kind of stood out.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And everything too is what kind of dentistry are you wanting to do?

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of a hard question to answer when you first come out of dental school.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_04]: But I had some sort of idea that I wanted to be an owner, that I was hoping for a fee for service practice.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And as long as all their boxes checked, it made sense.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's ultimately, I guess how we ended up here.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a couple follow up questions.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Were you replacing like a doctor that was leaving or were you the first kind of associate to come in at that location?

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So our practice is a two and a half doc practice.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_04]: This was sustainable for one doctor.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_04]: He lives in Peoria, so he was kind of wanting to work more close to home.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So Peoria is like maybe 30 minutes away, 20 minutes away from his home.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But they just acquired a practice nearby where he was from.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: So it made sense for him to transition to that practice.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm from my hometown, so it really kind of was a very natural transition for me.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Especially that gives me kind of a little bit of advantage in the sense that if you go back and you practice in your hometown,

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: you make connections, especially if you're from a rural town, obviously.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_04]: But you make connections with the patients like, oh, hey, oh, I know your family here from this.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And immediately there's a trust that you build with patients.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_04]: So to answer your question, yeah, I did come in and replace another doctor.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So, but yeah.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Very good to know.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And how rural exactly are we talking like?

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what's the population?

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not overly rural in the sense that Peoria, which is a good size city.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I should know off the top of my head how many there is.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_04]: But Morton's like 15,000, I think.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, something like that.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like 30 minutes from a pretty decent size.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. From a decent size.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome. Good to know.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Brandon, I don't know if you're ready to share, but you mentioned kind of looking forward into the future.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Some things you have in the works.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much you want to share about that.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Okay. So I think it's pretty obvious that for a long time, I've been interested in surgery.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Always been kind of surgically inclined from dental school to now.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And being able to, especially these last two years, to have tons of patients that need their wisdom teeth out.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And like being able to work directly with oral surgeons and then get to the point where they trust you.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're working two rooms all day, just jumping back and forth, doing case after case after case.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Really started making me think what I wanted to do with my future.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So I am thinking about doing a four-year Omafess residency after I'm done with my four years in dental school.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Seth has known about this for quite some time.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I told him back in January.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is something that's been kind of brewing for a while now.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I mean, I'm going to try my hardest to get into a residency.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: If it doesn't work out, that's A-okay.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Just going to be a really surgical GP.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's something about picking up a scalpel every single day that's like super attractive to me.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know people are going to like say, oh, well, you can do that as a GP too.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But I really want to get into like orthognathics and trauma and that kind of stuff.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I have been studying for the CVSE.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I have been shadowing.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing some shadowing, a double jaw orthognathic case next week, which is going to be pretty cool in the operating room.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's just something that brings me joy.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And like those people who know my original story, my dad was a science teacher and is a science teacher in high school.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And growing up, I would always go into class with him on dissection days.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's all these little photos of me like at five years old holding a scalpel in my hand.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just something that I've always wanted to do.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like this is the trajectory that I want to head in and that just naturally I find myself heading in.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll see what happens.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to be overly cocky about it or anything like that.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to try hard to get in.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: If it works, that's amazing.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: If not, then I have a backup plan for sure.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So we're just going to kind of see how it goes.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, that's the idea and that's the plan for now.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Man, that's dedication for sure.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, four years of dental school plus the four years of military service and perhaps another four years of residency.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's ridiculous, I know.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely fits my kind of perception of who you are as somebody who wants to be like the best.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And wants to really do things right and learn as much as you can.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, hopefully best of wishes for that.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll definitely stay tuned for updates and all that.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be in your corner.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I have a couple buddies who are studying for the CBSC and I know that that test is not anything to be taken lightly.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's wild, yeah, I know man.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be going to, you're coming back to Chicago, right?

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_04]: That is the plan.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: The dream would be, yeah, coming back to Chicago.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll refer my patients up to you.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Two hours north.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, that's fine.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: For teeth extractions.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I'd love to or I'll come to you.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: We can do a...

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there we go.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Traveling surgeon.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there we go.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So you just moved with the military, so you're in a new town.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So this might be kind of hard to answer, but I was going to ask both of you what an ideal day looks like in clinic for you.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So would you still be like being between, you know, changing and adapting that you can still tell me though what you feel like would be an ideal day?

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean a busy one.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I hate just sitting around twiddling my thumbs all day.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So ideally, you know, we'd have patients on the schedule and I'd be able to review my schedule the night before.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: There's something kind of exciting and special about reviewing your schedule the day before and, you know, prepping your medical histories and you know what procedures you have that day.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, surgery side again, like I love CAD CAM.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't mind composites.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's some people out there that hate composites and being at Parasylum, like I'm really quick at them.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I can do a DO in like 15-20 minutes if everything goes according to plan.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So being having a schedule jam-packed of a mixture of things, surgery and operative, indirects, CAD CAM, that would be a perfect day for me.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, call it a day at three or four o'clock and head home and spend time with the wife and soon-to-be puppy.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like a pretty perfect day to me.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So you mentioned CAD CAM.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: How much CAD CAM stuff are you able to do in the clinic that you're in?

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_03]: The new one, not quite sure yet.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: The one that I just came from, we did a lot.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of CAD CAM, including deep margin elevation and then, you know, pretty much every single type of CAD CAM prep you can think of, we've done.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Traditional crowns, crown lays, overlays.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_03]: We've even done a couple of von lays or like veneer lays.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So all that crazy fun stuff we've been able to do, which is pretty sweet.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you said, I don't know how much I'll be able to do at this clinic.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Still kind of getting set up, but at my previous clinic, yeah, we did a lot.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting to me because I feel like a lot of those techniques are kind of taboo in the United States for some reason.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you mentioned, kind of like deep margin elevation.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: All my faculty that work in the fixed department will swear that you cannot have any type of margin on a restorative material.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I know that it's such a common technique, especially in Europe.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting that you've been able to kind of get that experience.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's kind of cool.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a whole subspecialty that's really prominent in the military.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It's called an operative dentist, operative dentistry.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You can go to residency for this.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And this has to do with restorative techniques and materials.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And deep margin elevation, I believe, was pretty much born in the military.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of where it exploded from.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I could be way wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure there's a lot of, at least there's been a lot of literature that has come out of the military on deep margin elevation.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Just because we, you know, what the population we're seeing, we're seeing people in their 17, 18, 19 to early 20s.

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And if we can save a tooth and not have to pull it and do an implant at, you know, early twenties, we're going to try to save that tooth.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So being able to do deep margin elevations, we did it, I would say almost on a daily basis at Parasilin where we were.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of hard to track the success because, you know, our patients are only there for training for a short amount of time.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So we would always call it a geographic success if the crown didn't fall off in the couple months that they were there.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We knew it was a success, but you know, there are studies out there that are showing, you know, especially if you look into like, you know, immediate dent and sealing.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And the whole biomimetic approach, like their things are lasting a lot longer.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, one of the big things that I have learned is like, we need to trust our bonding systems.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Our bonding systems are holding our indirect restorations on there so much better now than, you know, in the past with what are probably, you know, our more seasoned prosthodontic faculty.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Have, you know, used in the past, they're used to, you know, glass anomer cements and stuff like that.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And with these new resin cements, there's a lot more that's possible now.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I didn't expect getting into this much detail, but I remember listening to an episode of a podcast.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've heard of it, the Protrusive Dental Podcast with Des Gulati.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And his guest that was on was talking about how he actually doesn't with immediate dent and sealing now.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He actually doesn't even care about the bond to enamel because he's like, the bond to denton is better with immediate dent and sealing.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And then my mind being in dental school being taught that like you basically there's no dependable bond to denton period.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, there's definitely a lot to learn out there after dental school, that's for sure.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Seth, I have a couple more questions about.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, first you can go ahead and tell me what a perfect day or an ideal day looks like in your office.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, that's a, you know, a perfect day for me would be, you know, if I'm...

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple all on Xs.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, that'd be fantastic, but it's not quite there yet.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Lots of implants would be great.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_04]: A day full of implants would be fantastic.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I look at it from a production standpoint.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So, what drives me crazy is when I have a day of back to back to back fillings, fillings all day long, you know.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's something the team needs to learn is how to schedule properly.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's something I'm trying to learn too.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's something you grow into also is like, okay, how do you schedule that, you know, is productive and you're not killing yourself too.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So, there's a fine line there and everybody finds that.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_04]: One thing too is there's a lot of, you know, if you see a patient, you diagnose multiple fillings or you have a crown and some fillings in one quad.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't just have the patient come in just for the, you know, like one or two fillings.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Do the whole quad that day.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you're spending time with that patient, more time with one patient, being more productive with that one patient.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's also...

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And if it's in multiple quads too, I mean, patients generally don't assume that they don't want to be numb in a lot of different spots.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes, you know, patients have busy work schedules and lives and they don't want to keep coming back to dentist.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_04]: So, I think that's one thing is just be able to schedule one patient for more time.

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_04]: You become more productive in that sense.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So, more quadrant dentistry.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I just want to cut in.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I 100% agree with you.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: 100%.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_03]: More time with one patient is so much better than less time with many more patients.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: It's frustrating when you have on your schedule like for an hour, like an occlusal or like an MO on one patient or something.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, okay, well, that's not going to be very productive.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Especially if you're, I mean, everybody, like I said, once again, needs to, you know, it's not all about production.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, everybody needs to find, okay, what are you hoping to produce every hour?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And build your schedule based off that.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: You put blocks in your schedule to reflect kind of that, what you're hoping to produce throughout the day.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And your business team, your assistants, your hygienists have that on the schedule and they abide by it.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you find yourself having more productive days.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, even for the small procedures, you know, you don't obviously over-diagnose or anything.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But the small procedures will fit into that schedule one way or another.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It just allows for a more, better flow of your day.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So I definitely like having some sort of block schedule.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And that block schedule, like right now, I'm even kind of going through this process of like, okay, I need to kind of evolve it and fix it a little bit.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Because I'm noticing maybe too much downtime or something along those lines.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Or numbers aren't matching up where I'm hoping to be.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of a game.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You can keep adjusting it.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But my ideal day would be lots of implants.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: How many chairs are you seeing patients out of in your office?

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I run two columns.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So I have two operatory chairs.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_04]: We have four operatory chairs total in the practice.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, five kind of.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But then we're pretty hygiene-heavy practice too.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have like six hygienists running pretty commonly.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, I'm usually checking three or maybe if it's only five, maybe I'm only checking two or three.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Depends on the day.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then kind of along those lines, Brandon, do you typically see patients out of several chairs as well?

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Or at least in the clinic that you're coming from?

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So it really just kind of depends on personnel for the day.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But typically, if I have the manpower to do it, I'll run two chairs as well.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of hop back and forth.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, getting into a flow and when you're just on the same page as both of your assistants, I mean, you're able to fly through procedures.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It's unbelievable how much more you can get done with running two chairs versus one.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And that really goes to show how much we rely and how much we should appreciate our assistants do.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: We really can't do half the things that we need to do without them.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: So, and they're what make the practice run and help us stay, you know, get to where we need to go and make sure that we're staying on time.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But they also just double, triple, quadruple our production just by being able to have us run multiple chairs at the same time.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, running two chairs is awesome.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It's fun because then you're not, again, you're not waiting for the room to be turned over and whatever.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you're just right back into the action with your next patient.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's fun.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely agree.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I worked as an assistant before dental school and we would have like a single crown prep would be a one hour block.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But the dentist would be in there for like 10 minutes maybe.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the assistant was the one in there the rest of the time.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I definitely can't wait to kind of get out of the inefficiencies of dental school and be able to leverage kind of just all the different ways you can make life more efficient and easier for yourself.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that could be a whole podcast in and of itself probably.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So moving forward, I did kind of want to follow up with Seth.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So you gave us a few kind of nuggets about how to look for a good associateship.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But then how did the conversation go?

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I know this being kind of like a group, so they probably have like a protocol for partnering in.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But any kind of words of wisdom you would have for young dentists looking for partnership opportunities?

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know if I have much wisdom.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, well, I was in the first wave of doctors I actually bought in.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So the previous owner or the owner, he owned all practices, just him sink by himself.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So from he wanted to start opening the doors because, you know, he has this philosophy of doctor ownership of practices.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And he didn't want to end to free up some of his own debt and everything, his own personal finances to help us to go out and purchase other practices and to have that owner's club to allow for further acquisitions was kind of his mindset.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And to try to keep it from being too, you know, I guess corporately minded because it's doctor owned, I guess, is the logic behind it.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, that spoke a lot to me, too.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Just the whole mission statement and knowing the doctor, the owner personally, that gave me the confidence to be part of something.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So being able to appreciate and be part of a group that you believe in is obviously paramount.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_04]: So, so that that was that was that was exciting.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm trying to think back to your question more so of like how your question was like what's what made me decide to become an actual owner of the practice?

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. Like what kind of things did you consider when you were considering partnering in?

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Or was it kind of one of those things where you were like, I'm happy here.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_01]: There's an opportunity to partner in. So why not?

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. No, that's a good question.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So like from the from the very beginning, when I first was designed to become an associate of dental school, I was having that conversation with every everyone.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_04]: The doctors was like they knew what my intentions were.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They knew that I wasn't just coming to be an associate that I was hoping and wanting to have some sort of ownership in the practice.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was in the contract to some degree, too, is just that that that conversation we had.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So so I went in with that mindset from the very beginning.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And the reality is, too, when I when I was associate for a little over a year, it just once again, like you were saying, it was a good environment.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: The numbers made sense.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_04]: The the the kind of every all the finances kind of aligned.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was like, OK, the longer I wait to become an owner, I'm just doing myself a disservice.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's just like, OK, just take take the take the leap, you know.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's important to to have somebody look over those contracts and you know what you're signing as an associate to there's there's a lot of.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Just this little things that these golden handcuffs or whatever it can be to to make associateship difficult to leave or exit and things like that.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So you got to be you have to Pete's the doctor who I've talked with, whose owner he is, he's giving me a lot of different examples of different associateships.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been having been have been very good.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And some doctors have had to pay back the other owner and things like that.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_04]: It's just you have to know what you're signing.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, it was a kind of a very organic transition from associateship to ownership.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very glad that worked out for you.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I like that you mentioned that you kind of you kind of went into every associateship having that conversation that I'm not here to be a lifelong associate.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's really valuable kind of pro for people if they are planning to if they do have aspirations for ownership to be up front with that, unless they unless they plan on leaving the office, maybe don't be up front with.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know. I think at least at least, you know, make sure it's no at least an opportunity if that's what you're looking for.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And if it doesn't work out, I mean, then you can just as an associate, you can always, you know, always leave, you know.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. But yeah.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome. So I want you guys to kind of get a little bit more nitty gritty with some clinical some clinical tips.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like this is a good opportunity for my dental student listeners to maybe hear something that you guys have have learned.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So anything it can be anything on a regular procedure, like anything operative or fixed or or even extractions or anything.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Just just give me some some kind of nuggets, some wisdom on on anything you've learned along the way that you feel like make things better.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I know, Brandon, you you like to post the garrison matrices and stuff.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So anything like along those lines would be great.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So in terms of operative, especially class two restorations, like, you know, everybody hates class two restoration.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So what I recommend is it really I mean, I use garrison.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I have used like the Paladins system.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It really doesn't matter what system you use.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Just make sure it works well in your hand.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But the biggest thing is if you're placing composite, which majority of us are, make sure you have your you're happy with your matrix set up before you place that composite.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, make sure everything's nice and sealed.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Spend that extra time.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Make sure your band is well contoured to your prep and make sure that that band is well wedged and pressed against the adjacent tooth.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so you can create a nice contact.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing worse.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've all been there.

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, it happens and it still happens to us every now and then where you're rushing and you're not going to really adjust your your ring at all.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you end up with an open contact.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you would have spent that couple extra seconds to really make sure that you had a good placement of your matrix system before you started, you would have avoided that in the first place.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's my big like like operative or restorative pearl is just like take your time with that.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: That's really, really important step.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, when we were all in dental school learning how to place amalgams in our class twos like we were taught, we created that contact or really just, you know, condensing that amalgam down into our prep, which pushes that amalgam against the band.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But composite really doesn't do that.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So you need to create your contact with your matrix system before you place the composite itself.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're able to do that and you're able to kind of look with your mirror or look from the side and make sure that band is actually pressing against that adjacent tooth, you're going to have a nice tight contact.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: No further worries from there.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So just spending that extra couple seconds really yields, you know, dividends for you.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Seth, do you have any any quick tips like that that might be useful for a dental student?

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_04]: For for me, I that's a great tip when it comes to composite, so I still sometimes get so we all do.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: We all do. Yes.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Freaking nuts.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm still trying to find the matrix system that I really enjoy.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I go back and forth between the Omni matrix from Ultra Dent because it's super easy to throw on there sometimes.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I get great contacts sometimes.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And then then we have Trio Dent is the one we have, which is like the garrison.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyways, one thing that I do that's a little different is for my crown preps.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I do a reverse crown prep technique that Mike Titola, I think, is his name.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Mike Titola.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04]: That he he kind of goes over.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And I really like that where you know, you adjust the occlusion, you break the inner proximal contacts.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And then for the for the for the margin, I take a diamond round burr on the high speed and I go around and I make my it just it just like notches in the the margin.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And then all I had to do is feather in the reduction so that that speed up my my crown preps.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not just about speed, but also my quality.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like just even it's amazing when you when you do CAD.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_04]: How terrible some of your preps look once you scan it, it's like, oh man, that could have been much better or something like that.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, oh man, when you see on a scanner blown up, you know.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a good tool.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_04]: It is.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_04]: It is.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I've noticed that my my preps are much, much better.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I also take then my my red stripe burr and I turn the water off, bring it down to half the RPMs on it and just go around and just kind of get rid of any J margins or anything like that.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And it just kind of kind of polishes everything.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I guess that's one one of my tips is, you know, crowd preps.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll hop in there too real quick to while we're on the subject of crowns.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_03]: What I've kind of leaned toward now if I'm doing crowns is we get so good at dropping boxes on the museum distal right now for for all of our class two restorations.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So if I'm going to prep a crown, I'll reduce my occlusion and then I'll go.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll drop boxes to break my inner proximal contacts.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So on the museum distal and I'll just think about dropping boxes and then you can do your margin from there.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I for whatever reason, like we are so accustomed to that just feels natural just to drop boxes instead of trying to follow your margin all the way around in approximately.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just an easier way to do it.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: What birdies when you do that?

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I will usually start.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so it's a the position I'm at now.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in charge of all of my own ordering, so I can tell you exactly what bird I like.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I it's the Meisinger 518, I think is what it is.

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a little like large blue pair.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a blue stripe, so it's coarse.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But I drop my boxes with that and that's all I use pretty much for all of my like cavity preparations, too.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But once I drop those boxes, then I'll switch to, you know, just your normal like modified chamfer deep shoulder kind of burr to do my margins.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And then I really like the it's like a wheel burr.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a diamond disc and that's what I use for all of my occlusal reductions.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's super fast and you know, I love that thing.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty sweet.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, we call we call it the pancake burr.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like that.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I use with my assistants hand me.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I don't know the names.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just curious if he was using like a pear shaped that like a pear shaped burr kind of like a 330 or if he was using like a like axial reduction burr.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I have done both.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I have done both, but that's the burr that I found that I really liked the most because it cuts really fast too.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I refuse to use carbides now, by the way, unless it's for like a round burr for cavity excavation.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I am all diamonds.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, very cool.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wish I could implement some of these things.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think we have diamond round burrs available in the student clinics, so I don't know if you'll have to give it a try.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he makes a he.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I think they actually have a kit that you can purchase once you get out of dental school.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_04]: One other thing I'd say too is I think a lot of doctors get lazy in prior practice.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_04]: One way you can get lazy is the retraction paste.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_04]: 3M makes one and I was kind of when I came here, no one used cord.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So everybody just kind of puts the retraction paste in it.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And if it's a little super gingival or if it's just right at the gum line, it doesn't make too much difference.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_04]: But I've seen in my hands, I still like to pack some cord.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Take the time.

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Just me personally, I'll pack a double zero or like a zero and then I'll pack that and then I'll put the 3M or Traxident around it.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'll take one of those copper caps and I'll have the patient bite down on that.

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_04]: From my experience, it's been better.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's one other thing is just like sometimes like Brandon was just saying, take the extra time to contour your matrix.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Take the extra time to get those margins shown because you're not going to get a good restorative result.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_04]: The lab will have to do a lot of guesswork.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I hate packing cord too, but I think it's a must, you know, especially if you're using a scanner.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_03]: By the way, I just want to go back for anybody listening.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the it's the Meissinger 512M.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the 518.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to just correct that real quick in case anybody wants to check that out.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot I can appreciate from both of those tips because well, first of all, the you mentioning how when you blow up your margins on on a scanner, you can really see all the little errors.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And we just finished our digital dentistry course where we definitely had our preps scrutinized on the scanners.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't even look at the typodont.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_01]: They just look at the scan and they'd blow it up like bigger than anything you've ever seen before.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And they'd be like, oh, you see this little bump right here on the margin.

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And I definitely wanted to try.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen Mike Duttol's videos on the reverse crown prep.

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I did try one on a typodont, but I don't know if it was just the plastic teeth.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really like it on on the plastic teeth.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was also doing it with a carbide round burr.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that's not what how you're supposed to be doing it.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But those really good tips.

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I will definitely I'll definitely try dropping the box.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I can that's something I can definitely easily do with the burrs that we have available and then just just try that out for sure.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys talk about CE and I know, Brandon, you're still taking CE as much as you can with how time allows you.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_01]: What would you guys say is the best CE each of you have taken in these past couple of years?

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Seth, you've taken more recently than I have for sure.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So you go first.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_04]: For me, it's my my CE is all mainly implant focused just because I'm really wanting to get more and more implant cases.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So having that confidence is key.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You have to do the CE if you're going to do implants.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So going to implant pathway, doing the fast track, I did that.

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I think from a from more of a knowledge standpoint, going to the Zero Bone Loss Concepts lecture.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_04]: That was a two day course I did in Chicago that was more of just conceptual that helps me kind of, you know, with just tying some different loose ends mentally.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And then, well, first, I think before you even get into implants, I think it was important.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I went to a extraction and grafting course at Implant Pathway, and that was really just the foundation.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_04]: You mean you know how to pull teeth?

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_04]: You got to know how to graft properly.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was the kind of the foundation before taking the fast track and then before taking that lecture.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And now I'm going to next weekend.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to Texas to do soft tissue, like grafting GBR course to help me with because you'll find out in as CE once again.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, like I keep bringing up, you kind of just grow into these things and you'll run into cases like some implant cases.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, oh man, I would love to build do some GBR here or I did a GBR and it didn't go quite as well because, you know, I didn't have the technique.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I tried it once.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, that didn't go quite as planned.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I knew exactly what I was doing and the result wasn't ideal.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, okay, I got to go.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I got to go take this course, you know?

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, yeah, I guess there's a lot of ways you can go with it.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And another thing too is that there's a good love, good online stuff.

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Brandon and I took the third molar extraction course.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So we got a lot of nuggets out of that.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And then another thing I really enjoy is CAD cam.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So in 3D printing.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So I took some online Dr. Wally Renee through the mod Institute.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_04]: He has got some great, great courses.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_04]: The doc that I practice with, she's going to one of his courses and I think it's in Bellevue Hills in California.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I think ultimately find the thing that you enjoy and find what everybody's talking about.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Who everybody in the dental community is talking about.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_04]: There must be something like implant pathway.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Brandon just kept talking about implant pathway.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like, I got to go now because Brandon just keeps talking about it.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So I went and there was something to be said about implant pathway.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And now they're calling it just the pathway.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to add some other stuff as well.

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_01]: We have started adding some other stuff.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's nice to know people like the two of you that I can ask questions like that because there's so much CE out there.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Just being able to ask what you guys have really benefited from.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll definitely write those down and that'll be on my short list for when I get out.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Brandon, I know you're still taking as much CE as you can with the time restrictions of the military.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So tell me a little bit about that as well.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'll echo everything that Seth just said.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything that he said is amazing CE.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: In addition to that, I've been a bookworm recently too.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been studying which has been taking up a lot of my time.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_03]: The Zero Bullmouse Concepts book, fantastic.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Modern Implant Dentistry, amazing resource.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say to all you dental students who are listening to this too, take advantage of your school email because you get PubMed for free.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So if there's ever anything that you're interested in, dive into the literature if you really want to.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's boring and you're going to think, oh, this Brandon's a nerd.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I get it. I am. I know.

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But it really becomes useful, especially when you're out of dental school, running into cases or you're trying to look for techniques or success rates or anything like that.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It can be interesting.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I will shout out one other course that hasn't been mentioned yet.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_03]: One thing that I really learned to love at Parris Island was the rubber dam.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a phenomenal tool, more so than an Isodry.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Trust me, I love Isodry.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's how quick and easy they are to pop them in and do what you need to do.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But to truly isolate and get everything nice and dry, the rubber dam is still the best.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a guy named Dr. Callan Pop.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he runs a rubber dam master class, like $100.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_03]: If you're a dental student, it's pretty cheap and pretty doable.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that would be one of the first courses if you're looking for a restorative type of course to take.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: If you start with good isolation, you're going to have a good outcome.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Check that out.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He also has a 20-minute YouTube video, which honestly is really good as well.

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That's totally free. Go check that out too. That's really good.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Is the master class an online thing?

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's online.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Those are definitely some good nuggets.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish that I used rubber dam more in clinic.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still at the early stages.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I've only done a little over a dozen fillings at this point.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I haven't really used it barely at all.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we'll get a little bit more confidence using it and get used to that before I start building bad habits.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know what? No.

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you have a million other things that you're worrying about right now too.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So, do the best you can and then like when you have time or you have a patient that you have some extra time with,

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that's when you go and dive into the weeds with that kind of stuff.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But it does make the world of difference, especially if you're taking photos, having a rubber dam on already.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I refuse to take photos pretty much if I don't have a rubber dam on.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It just makes everything nice and clean.

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That's my rubber dam rant.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I can appreciate that.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I know if Alan's listening to this, he'll like that little rubber dam rant too because he tends to go on one every once in a while as well.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So, that's all I had kind of prepared.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if maybe you guys want to add anything or if you guys have any words of wisdom or any advice or anything you'd like to add.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Now would be the time.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So, what are some things you're interested in?

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Like is there some sort of like do you want to get into implants or you just like what's your thoughts?

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I definitely want to get into implants for sure.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of my background, I was an oral surgery assistant for a little while while I was in undergrad.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I assisted a couple super GPs.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I would call them super GPs.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_01]: They did pretty much everything except bracket and wire and like molar retreats.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So, they did everything else in-house including impacted wisdom teeth and all that.

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I really like that model that they did.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really enjoy assisting in the oral surgery office as much but I think it was more of a cultural thing.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how you mentioned before.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I loved the surgeries he was doing.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_01]: He was doing a lot of, you know, full arch fixed and I really enjoyed assisting those.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't think I could specialize especially with my grades.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm not planning on specializing or anything like that.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Not that I have like horrible grades but I don't have, you know, oral surgeon grades for sure.

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_01]: All doors are open but I can see the first specialty procedure that I want to get really good at being like implants and endo.

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll go on from there probably do Invisalign eventually.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But it will also depend on the office I get into and, you know, all the factors that I'm sure you know exist.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's a – you bring up a lot of good points.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I think one thing you made just talking about grades.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't top of the class.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: But definitely not.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_04]: But my mindset shifted.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's a good lesson because I had this lesson for myself was undergrad.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I didn't learn very much undergrad.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_04]: But I got the A's because all I cared about was memorizing and getting the A so I can get into dental school.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Once I got into dental school, my mindset changed to I'm here to learn.

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And I knew I wasn't – I mean, my idea was just to become a general dentist and do, you know, general dentistry.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But with, you know, a lot of other avenues.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But so with that mindset, I didn't care, you know – well, I shouldn't care what grade I got.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But I focused more on just learning the material.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's important to have that be real with yourself and know what trajectory you're kind of going for in that sense.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's nothing wrong with that.

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the exact same boat there.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of pre-made the decision that I wasn't going to look so much at the GPA and was going to just focus on getting as much clinical experience, good clinical experience as I could.

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of where I'm at.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And I had Brandon too for my study guides.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I had you too, dude.

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: We would spend hours on the phone before exams just going over stuff.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Your Anki decks were just ridiculous.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I did make a sick Anki deck, I will say.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have somebody in our school who makes just insane Anki decks for every class.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It really takes one for the team.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine how long those take to assemble.

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Going off that though, one thing too, you know, kind of Seth, what you were mentioning is like having a vision of where you want to be.

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And not everybody's going to have that.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you do have an idea of what kind of things you see yourself doing in the future, one of the things that's always mentioned in, if you've ever read the book Titans of Dentistry, has all the big names in dentistry.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the questions that they ask is, I forget what the exact question was, but I think it was talking about like how you achieve a goal or whatever.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And one thing that really jumped out to me is all of them said that they started with the end in mind.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So where do you see yourself and then work your way backward?

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if I want to place implants, you know, what do I need to do in order to do that?

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to take CE or to take CE like which courses should I take first?

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, if I'm going to be placing implants now, I need to be prepared on how to treat complications or, you know, have a conversation with, you know, a specialist or a mentor of, hey, how can I refer these to you if I don't know how to treat the complication or have somebody on your speed dial that knows how to treat complications.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you work, you know, you start with single implants and then you work your way up to, you know, implant bridges and then over dentures.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, you make your way up to the bigger stuff, but just kind of reverse engineering everything I think is very helpful.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And like I said, other people may have an issue or just a harder time knowing what they want to do.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's totally fine.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But if when if and when you get that vision, that's when you start kind of picking it apart and working backward in order to achieve that.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of struggle with that because I've been, you know, I've been consuming dental content since before dental school, much like much like you.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So I've kind of switched on what my vision looks like several times.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's OK.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think right now, I think I'm going to let kind of I'm going to focus on getting into a good office and then doing the stuff that my patient like I'll get training in the things that I feel like my patients need.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if I'm referring out a lot of implants, I'll be like, OK, time to do that.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Get some implant training.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to focus too much on like I don't know, like setting goals that aren't necessarily practical.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So sure.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm going to.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That's my working answer to that question for now.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, might change if you ask me in a week or two.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, absolutely.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I think one other nugget, though, is if you do have a procedure in mind that you want to do.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't wait to take the C.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I think waiting because.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's fine.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm not I'm just saying like, don't wait to take C that you're interested in taking.

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's kind of hypocritical for me.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, but it's just because I don't have the time to I would be taking so much more C if I could.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But waiting prevents you from completing those procedures for a longer amount of time when if you took it earlier, you'd be able to perform that procedure for a greater amount of time.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So that would give you a greater ROI on that C if that makes sense.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, coming out of that and especially if you're coming out of dental school, like take advantage of those those new dentist discounts.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Like pretty much every C has a either a dental student or a new dentist discount.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So take advantage and soak all that stuff up so that you can start doing those, you know, onesie twosie implants or, you know, endo retreats are easy in visalign cases, whatever you're interested in.

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Because if you're doing it earlier on in your career, you're only going to grow and get better at it.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're gonna have more patience to do those procedures on.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know if that's just my two cents to, you know, the longer you wait, the more cases you miss out on.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's all good stuff.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I've learned a lot.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I've definitely held you guys for the hour a little bit over.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I know it's getting pretty late over there in the East Coast.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I'd love to get you guys back on in the future.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was really a pleasure to kind of talk about all this with you all.

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: For any of the listeners who haven't given their podcast a listen, I highly recommend it.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Thank you guys for listening and we'll catch you next time.

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.