Very Dental Student: Dr. Khalid Alzubi on Advantages of Working in a DSO

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[00:01:39] It's time for a very dental podcast just for students and new dentists. Welcome to the very

[00:01:45] dental student podcast. And now here's your host, Mohammed Abobasha.

[00:01:50] Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the very dental student podcast. I'm your host

[00:01:55] Mohammed Abobasha. Today I am interviewing Dr. Khadid Azubi. Khadid how are you doing today?

[00:02:02] I'm doing great man. How are you?

[00:02:04] I'm doing amazing. I'm just glad to be on here and hopefully getting to extract some wisdom out of you.

[00:02:10] So let's get right into it. Tell me how you ended up getting into dentistry just some background for

[00:02:16] the listeners. We know this very well that our parents push us to the health field.

[00:02:24] My mom's always like, you gotta be a doctor. You gotta be a doctor. I didn't think medicine was

[00:02:29] for me. I wasn't the best high school student. So I was like, you know what? Medicine sounds tough.

[00:02:36] Let me go out in dentistry maybe easier. Well, it turned out to be a lot harder.

[00:02:42] Very very tough but my freshman year I always had dentistry my my freshman year my

[00:02:52] my dentist that I had offered me a job to just you know well I started off by asking the shadow

[00:03:00] and she offered me a job and over those three years of shadowing I realized I do like dentistry

[00:03:10] and you know I stuck with the plan and just applied to dental school and I just kind of worked out

[00:03:16] and I will say I felt I feel like I made the right decision you know. Yeah it's awesome

[00:03:22] and so then you finished you finished dental school in 2017 correct? Yes 2017.

[00:03:30] Awesome and then yeah so talk to me a little bit about so we were just talking about how when

[00:03:35] you're in your senior year you kind of got to figure out what like what you're going to do after

[00:03:40] you graduate and so talk to me about just your thought process when you were when you're getting

[00:03:46] ready to come out and how you ended up coming to the decision that you did. So the doctor

[00:03:54] that I actually worked with she she was offering for me to like work with her at the same time

[00:04:02] I was getting offers from DSOs and in my mind I was also thinking like am I ready to even open up

[00:04:11] a dental office on my own because my dad's a businessman he's like you need a you get you got to have

[00:04:16] ownership of you know you got to have your own building got to have your own business you got to

[00:04:21] have this you got to have that so I had like associate job DSO job and thinking about opening up my

[00:04:28] own office well you know after kind of looking at everything that I had on all my options I was thinking

[00:04:37] about something that could help me plant my feet the best yeah so you know I'm thinking of ideas

[00:04:47] of like if I opened up my own office do I know anything about insurance do I know anything about

[00:04:57] what do I fully understand the laws so I don't I'm not breaking any laws do I know who to hire

[00:05:05] so and I thought honestly I felt like a DSO job would would be the best at least you know fully

[00:05:11] understand what it takes to kind of run an office and not just an office a busy office and an

[00:05:18] efficient office yeah so that was my mind process I said let me just go the safest route and try

[00:05:24] to understand what take running an office even takes you know yeah so then so you ended up choosing

[00:05:33] to sign with a DSO and and you've been at that job ever since correct same office yeah well

[00:05:39] that wasn't my plan my plan was to work two years and and and the kind of move on but honestly

[00:05:48] fell in love with the company I work and I felt like I fully grasped the system there and

[00:05:56] you know you still keep learning every day but I kind of grasped the system there and

[00:06:02] felt like I was learning to be very efficient and learning how to produce while keeping my quality

[00:06:10] high um uh you know we're at you're asking me like when did you feel comfortable earlier

[00:06:21] you're asking me when did you feel comfortable like you felt like you could fully take on

[00:06:26] you know a lot of patience and know what to do and so I think the number one thing that I

[00:06:35] you know experience while working at DSOs is there are some things that just dental school is

[00:06:42] not going to teach you like when I got out of dental school I realized how much I knew but I also

[00:06:49] realized how much I didn't know yeah and I realized you know there's only there's only things that

[00:06:55] you're going to know through experience so the more experience you're going to get is based on

[00:07:03] how many patients you're seeing so if you start off opening up your own office right out of

[00:07:10] call or right out of dental school you're gonna start off slow you're gonna see less patients

[00:07:16] and you're not going to gain that experience as quickly yeah well at a DSO you're kind of forced

[00:07:22] to see a lot of patients which means a lot of experience and honestly after two years I felt like

[00:07:29] I could I knew exactly what not I could see every patient and work on every patient but I knew when

[00:07:37] I need I could do something and when I needed to refer it was very easy and I would look at a patient

[00:07:44] and immediately see the treatment plan that I kind of wanted to you know for this patient to have

[00:07:54] while in the first few years I would look at a patient and look at x-rays and just be so confused

[00:08:00] as to where to even start now I've asked like other you know other dental students like how long

[00:08:07] did it take you and I hear stuff like four five years but honestly after two years I felt

[00:08:15] completely comfortable with almost any patient yeah so yeah that speaks volumes so like basically

[00:08:23] the overall concept is the more just the more patients you see faster the better you'll get at

[00:08:30] treatment planning and just and just knowing your limits whereas if you if you go into a slower

[00:08:35] paced environment yeah you'll just take longer to get those reps is basically what you're saying

[00:08:42] I'm not saying you won't get there it just will take longer yeah so you know my plan like

[00:08:48] you were asking earlier my plan was to work there two years and then open up my own office but

[00:08:55] I just I just felt very comfortable in what I was doing I like the fast it's not like I like

[00:09:01] the fast space but I got used to the fast space I understood how to do it and you know it

[00:09:10] you know it just didn't feel like I needed to go anywhere else I just felt it just felt right where

[00:09:16] I was at you know and that may not be anyone I mean I had colleagues that wouldn't open up their own

[00:09:21] offices but they used the experience in the same techniques that they learned out of DSO

[00:09:27] and their own offices yeah yeah that makes sense I mean that's what you do hear a lot of people

[00:09:33] saying that nowadays there's definitely not a lot of students who are like I'm gonna go buy

[00:09:37] an office or start up an office right out of down school I feel like people are realizing that

[00:09:43] that's really not not in the cards for us anymore as new grads but a lot of people do say two or

[00:09:51] three years at a DSO and then I'll go buy an office or I'll go start work so and I think there's

[00:09:56] a lot a lot to be said about learning systems sound business systems and just you know getting

[00:10:07] exposed to how an office can be run efficiently so that you might not even realize necessarily

[00:10:15] that you're learning all these things but just seeing how it's done correctly makes it more likely

[00:10:20] that you'll be able to reproduce it I mean I honestly have noticed that like your dental skills

[00:10:28] are going to be fine like that's the thing that you're gonna learn over time

[00:10:37] um I think the most important thing that makes a successful office and a successful dentist is

[00:10:47] um honestly the treatment planning so that's what I got that's what the company I work for and

[00:10:56] and the environment that I've been kind of taught me to treatment plan in the best way

[00:11:05] because that's really kind of so if you if you're not presenting the right treatment plans or in

[00:11:11] the right order you're either um you're not helping the patient in the best way and you're not

[00:11:19] um you're not getting the best benefit out of you know it's not a win-win situation somebody's

[00:11:26] losing somebody's winning or you're both losing yeah you're trying to get a win-win situation

[00:11:30] in the sense of you're taking care of the patient you're not making an extremely expensive on them

[00:11:36] and you got a patient that trusts you now if I go to a patient and I'm presenting to them a 10

[00:11:44] $12,000 treatment plan they're gonna run out the door most of them so you kind of learn to work

[00:11:51] with an insurances within limits within um all types of you know there's like you said all types

[00:11:58] of techniques and systems that that you can learn at the SOS yeah for sure and the the think

[00:12:05] about DSOs is the system is tailored towards just the average patient it's not so there are some

[00:12:11] offices where it might be appropriate to give out to do 10,000 12,000 dollar treatment plans

[00:12:17] yeah but those are not necessarily the the offices and the demographics that DSOs are usually

[00:12:23] targeting towards they're usually just just the average patient the very cost sensitive patient

[00:12:28] so you still need to take good care of those patients and that's the skills that you've

[00:12:32] kind of learned at the DSO yeah yeah something I always like when I after I got into

[00:12:40] after I left then you know the dental school and got into DSO like man I wish you know

[00:12:46] I loved dental school I loved you know the college you know oh you called your dentistry they taught

[00:12:52] us very um how do I say very ideal dentistry they taught us you know the perfect way to do things

[00:13:01] and I think that's the way you should learn um I wish there was like at least like one class where

[00:13:09] they taught us like okay let's say you're in a situation where a patient can't do this or that

[00:13:15] you know what I mean what are you gonna do in this situation like for example I was

[00:13:20] I was in a situation one time where a patient broke off his tooth at the gum line his front tooth

[00:13:29] yeah well he didn't want to do an implant or he couldn't do an implant he needed a tooth today

[00:13:35] he didn't want to do an implant he didn't want to do a bridge he thought it was too expensive

[00:13:41] and um he thought you know he's like I just need something I just need to leave with a tooth today

[00:13:49] and I don't want anything removable so I'm like you know in the dental school they were to tell us

[00:13:54] extract that and do a partial even though the patient doesn't want something removable

[00:13:58] and my mind I was like listen this is what we can do I can either extract this tooth and

[00:14:06] you know give you something removable what you don't want or I can give you something that may

[00:14:11] turn into a long-term temporary or even something permanent I told them we can do a root canal

[00:14:18] post and crown and I would have to do a knife edge finish line you know what I mean yeah that's

[00:14:25] about the ideal thing to do but for that patient it's the realistic thing to do as long as

[00:14:31] you've covered all your bases and the patient understands you know that is something that

[00:14:36] you know you're kind of forced to do and learn in the real world you know what I mean quote-unquote yeah

[00:14:44] yeah I definitely know what you mean um yeah just that kind of working on your feet type acumen

[00:14:50] just trying to just figure out what's best for the patient and what you can do for them

[00:14:54] I that's just like a really valuable skill that I can one thing that like some

[00:14:59] some of my colleagues in dental school will say it's like oh I don't want to ever work at a DSO

[00:15:04] I want to work in like this you know just boutique dental office and just do venues all day but it's

[00:15:10] like that's not that's not fun to me it doesn't sound very fun to me like I want to be able to just

[00:15:15] figure things out like deal with deal with cases that like our outs you have to think outside

[00:15:22] the box to handle yeah one thing we were kind of talking about before I hit record was

[00:15:27] um how you feel like working at a DSO a busy DSO can be kind of like a highly paid AEDD residency

[00:15:37] talking to me a little bit more about what you mean by that so if you if you pick a I mean if you

[00:15:42] work at a good company not every company is the same I won't say every DSO it's just amazing

[00:15:49] and if I would not like to mention the name just for you know it's not fully my you know it's

[00:15:55] not my company but if anyone whatever you know want to reach out to me you can put like my email

[00:16:01] in the description but um the company I work for not every company is the same with the company

[00:16:06] now I work for they're very good at giving you the help that you need training you and uh they

[00:16:14] you know there's doctors that will help you uh learn certain techniques and certain procedures

[00:16:20] like root canals or crowns or bridges are removable you know so you're basically seeing patients working

[00:16:29] you know but you also have the help that you need in the sense of there's doctors around you

[00:16:36] that will tell you hey this is how you we're gonna attack this wisdom tooth for example

[00:16:42] or oh are you getting stuck through root canals try doing this or that and I've actually been

[00:16:50] in situations where many situations not just one but in my first year the doctor that I worked with

[00:16:56] he was nice enough to come in my room multiple times and bail me out of things you know I mean so

[00:17:04] you know you know i'm not only and why is that a highly paid AEDD I'm basically working as a doctor

[00:17:13] getting the pay as a doctor but I'm having uh the training that I need in situations that I need

[00:17:20] help in or sometimes you know sometimes you get stuck in situations and you get the help that

[00:17:27] you need and you get the tips and advice that will help you you know be successful in a future case

[00:17:33] so that's what I mean about a highly paid AEDD yeah um would you say that um it was really easy

[00:17:42] for you to get CE within your company specifically um and there's a lot of that like in house or do

[00:17:47] they give you like a like a stipend to go get some CE uh a lot of companies will give you money to

[00:17:56] uh go get the CE my company specific gives us two thousand dollars a year but honestly no one

[00:18:06] where we rarely use it because a lot of the CE is in house so we have treatment planning CE's we have

[00:18:15] you know how to attack certain wisdom teeth CE's uh we have uh removable CE I mean it's just all

[00:18:23] types of CE's um and it's kind of smart of that company because they kind of teach you

[00:18:29] the you know the way that works within the company are the best way you know and it's all

[00:18:36] and it's run by doctors it's run by people who have worked there for many years and it's run by

[00:18:41] people who have a lot of experience so it's it's kind of nice and you get to see all the doctors

[00:18:47] in the company you know we all get together and see each other um but AEDD is great now the one thing

[00:18:57] that you will probably learn in AEDD that you're not going to learn on your own is um

[00:19:05] you know full mouth cases I think that's the if you want to do full mouth cases

[00:19:10] you're probably never gonna learn that at a DSO you can always get the CE courses that you need

[00:19:16] to learn but um I mean I'm talking with you know we have CE's for bone grafts implants like

[00:19:24] I we're doing all that stuff I think the only thing that we don't do is is basically full mouth cases

[00:19:32] gutter yeah I mean most AEDDs around the country aren't teaching that either it's just a select few

[00:19:38] really good ones that do teach that kind of dentistry like oh yeah oh you oh you's definitely up

[00:19:45] there but there's a handful other places yeah um one thing I wanted to kind of talk about more

[00:19:52] is how how awesome it is that they kind of the CE are getting is already optimized for the workflow

[00:20:00] of the company because one thing I hear a lot of people complain about a lot of dentists when

[00:20:04] they go to take CE is they can't figure out how to implement it at their office but I mean like

[00:20:10] you said it's already like how the company does that procedure so you're just like you don't have

[00:20:17] to train anybody I mean you might have to train your assistance but um for the most part it's like

[00:20:23] the company's already set up to do that exactly the way you just learned it so you know that's

[00:20:28] one thing that's definitely awesome um we also talked about um just a couple things that

[00:20:35] you learn when working for a DSO or for a company that you don't learn in dental school some of

[00:20:42] that is definitely like the business the business side of things but what else do you think you

[00:20:46] learn you learned on the job that you didn't know you needed to learn and that you that you

[00:20:52] definitely weren't exposed to during dental school so I always imagined like working I always

[00:21:00] imagined working out of dental school while opening up my own office and one thing that I always

[00:21:06] thought about was who do I hire how does insurance work and what is the workflow that I would even have

[00:21:18] you know from patient calling to patient walking in to patient in the room to patient leaving so

[00:21:26] um the I think the biggest thing that I learned that I never thought that I don't think I would have

[00:21:33] learned in this much detail is insurance so we like the company I work for we really really focus on

[00:21:48] working within the patient's insurance we're not trying to overwhelm them with these big treatment

[00:21:55] plans we're gonna face everything out in a sense of this is what we're doing this year if you want

[00:22:02] to continue this year it's going to be out of pocket if not this is what we're doing next year

[00:22:07] with your insurance there's what so sometimes our treatment plans are like three or four years long

[00:22:13] the and patients are down for that and they'll you know as long as we're seeing them every six months

[00:22:18] we're following up with them they're okay with that now obviously that's not always it's not

[00:22:24] always rambles and butterflies because you know some teeth end up hurting some teeth but for the

[00:22:30] most part you know we take care of everything that's going to cost pain or get worse you know you

[00:22:35] control the fire and then you start building you know you control the decay and then you start

[00:22:41] building so I think you learning insurance was the biggest thing that we uh that I learned

[00:22:52] that I don't think I would have learned in this much detail if I went in on my own

[00:22:56] the second thing is treatment planning I know I mentioned that earlier but I felt I feel like

[00:23:01] the way we treatment plan is a big factor of any doctor's success whether you know it just depends

[00:23:11] on your demographic like you said but tailor that treatment plan to the person you're dealing with

[00:23:18] so I think that's the the second thing and the third thing is just coming up with the most

[00:23:24] efficient way to see patients like the company I work for I really don't worry about anything other

[00:23:32] than my patients you know I kind of have to watch things here and there but I know it's being done

[00:23:38] but for the most part I just walk in I do my work and I leave knowing because everybody

[00:23:46] else is so trained to you know kind of get things that things need to be done you know yeah so

[00:23:54] I think those are the three things is and I'll repeat them it's the insurance the treatment

[00:24:00] planning and the workflow along with what what employees to hire gotcha um I do want to get a

[00:24:09] little bit more into the like the details of kind of what your day-to-day looked like when you

[00:24:15] were first coming out so I'm kind of familiar with the with the company that you work for um so

[00:24:22] did you start off working just like out of one chair because I know eventually they kind of push

[00:24:27] their doctors to work out of three or four chairs eventually but but yeah did you start did they

[00:24:33] start you off at one chair and like how quick was that kind of progression so something I didn't know

[00:24:40] is that um you know as you're getting approved to you know for certain

[00:24:46] inferences they don't all come out one time so the first you know our insurance takes Medicaid

[00:24:53] or we call it sooner care but Medicaid. So the first one that's gonna

[00:24:58] um allow you to work under the inferences um or the you know the first insurance that will

[00:25:06] accept you as a doctor basically is uh sooner care or Medicaid. So the only patients you're seeing

[00:25:11] really is Medicaid and that's out of two chairs um you learn a lot through that because um you're

[00:25:21] you're you're gonna have to learn how to work with patients that are limited on income

[00:25:27] and limited on opportunities to even save teeth so you gotta start thinking is this two

[00:25:33] fourth saving is this two not worth saving and so on. So it's not too busy in the beginning as

[00:25:41] you start adding more and more inferences you're going to start seeing your schedule getting full

[00:25:46] or in fuller um you're probably not going to be that busy until maybe two or three months in

[00:25:57] and uh you know the best advice I got from the doctor I was working with is he looked at me he's

[00:26:03] like listen everybody's trying to see how fast you are like the company the so-called company

[00:26:11] you know the they want to see like how much you can produce which is okay I mean it's a business

[00:26:17] at the end you know we're we're taking care of patients and and making sure that they're in the

[00:26:22] best health but you know there's other people that'll look at money which is I mean that's just

[00:26:26] the way things are but he was like just do your best work and you will see your speed come up

[00:26:33] anyway no matter what don't ever work and that I took that to heart and I remember uh doctor

[00:26:40] called me uh he told us at our graduation he said take care of the patient and the money will come

[00:26:46] and I took that to heart yeah so I never tried to uh I never like lowered my standards to be

[00:26:55] faster I never you know um you know I never did any of that to just try to see as many patients

[00:27:03] I wasn't worried about busyness so but the business will eventually pick up and you

[00:27:14] will get used to it is what I'll say you're gonna get used to it and you're gonna know what to do

[00:27:20] so for example a patient will come in they have their schedule for four fillings if I know I'm in

[00:27:28] I don't want to rush four fillings so I'll tell the patient hey we'll do two if I still have time

[00:27:34] I'll do the other two you know what I mean yeah if I don't think I'm gonna do the four best fillings

[00:27:39] that I can I'm not gonna do them I'm only gonna do two you know what I mean so you know

[00:27:47] you'd be surprised how fast you can be when you're putting that environment if you're only

[00:27:51] putting a slow slower environment you're never gonna pick up that speed you know so yeah it's a

[00:28:00] it makes perfect sense um yeah I always wanted I I talked about this a lot but I am definitely like

[00:28:07] one of the faster people um in terms of just like pre clinic and even now that we've started

[00:28:12] getting into clinic a little bit and I was wondered like how that'll look once I get out

[00:28:19] because I mean I'm fast now in quotation marks but it still takes me like an hour and a half

[00:28:24] to do one filling so so you'll get used to it I'll tell you this I've the position I'm in right now

[00:28:33] if you ask me first you'd be like yeah how right man there's no way I'm ever gonna be that fast

[00:28:39] but you'd be surprised like how how quickly like you'll start learning certain techniques or

[00:28:46] certain ways to do things that just make things more efficient and it's just like sometimes

[00:28:51] it's like game changers you know what I mean like oh I'm gonna do this this way and you know and

[00:28:57] like for example here's something I don't know why they didn't teach us in dental school

[00:29:03] I always struggled with second molars second molar fillings I'm like how do you keep these

[00:29:08] probably unless you're using a rubber dam which um so I don't use them I make sure they're dry by

[00:29:14] don't so what I do is put a put a dry angle in the cheek a cotton roll in the cheek and then even

[00:29:25] if it's an occlusal fill you put a what's it called a matrix band around it and that no nothing

[00:29:34] is touching that you know I mean so I always put a matrix band cotton rolls and dry angles are on

[00:29:40] that tooth and I felt like that has increased my speed so much because I'm not worried about any

[00:29:47] saliva or any moisture touching it yeah for us we definitely they have us either use rubber dam

[00:29:54] or they'll have us use like the iso vac with with drying tools and con rolls and stuff so yeah

[00:30:00] you'd be surprised I mean you just start learning things that that are just gonna help you speed up

[00:30:06] because you know I've always thought like you know so here's the thing not the patient that

[00:30:18] your talk that you're working on you gotta understand what they're thinking as well

[00:30:24] you could be a wonderful dentist and doing the most ideal and perfect work but if it's taking you

[00:30:31] an hour and a half to two hours you're not gonna keep that you know I mean you gotta you gotta

[00:30:38] take the patients feelings and emotions into consideration as well so speed is important people

[00:30:46] think speed isn't important speed is important for that patient people think speed is important

[00:30:52] only for business terms but that patient thinks you're a good dentist based on how good the work

[00:30:59] is and how long it lasts of course but also how long are they sitting in that chair are they

[00:31:04] breaking their back and is there a draw sword because of how long it takes you to do that work

[00:31:09] yeah for sure I definitely think that sometimes there's like a sentiment of like

[00:31:14] oh people who worry about speed or like not going doing the best dentistry but I think that doesn't

[00:31:20] really make any sense because like you just said um the patient definitely doesn't mind having

[00:31:27] shorter appointments and also just just the basic concept is like the less time I'm in there

[00:31:34] spinning a bar on a tooth I feel like that's that's actually better it's like I don't want to

[00:31:38] I don't want to get like some an insult to the pulp because it take me three hours to prep your

[00:31:44] crown you know yeah yeah so along those lines we kind of talked about maybe some you know some taboos

[00:31:52] people have when they talk about DSO's or corporate dentistry so what do you want to talk about

[00:31:59] um specifically around that just like what what do you feel like it's kind of taboo and what

[00:32:03] what kind of myths do you want to break um one thing I was always you know worried about when I

[00:32:11] thought about DSO was are they gonna tell me what to do are they gonna make me reach a quota and

[00:32:19] if I don't reach that quota are they gonna take money from me now some DSOs do that and that's

[00:32:24] why I said not every DSO is the same I think you should really research the DSO you're in typically

[00:32:33] I don't want to say this but typically because I'm not I'm not 100% sure but typically the

[00:32:40] the smaller DSOs not the nationwide ones with the smaller DSOs

[00:32:45] uh they're usually easier to work with because they're the people that are on the very top you can

[00:32:52] easily contact them so I I talked to the owner of my company all the time yeah if I you know

[00:32:59] if I have to talk to anybody we're friends we can talk and joke around and all the time but if

[00:33:05] you're talking to a national DSO and it's kind of hard to reach people that can actually help you out

[00:33:12] um the second thing is um you know some people think we don't take care of our patients and I feel like

[00:33:24] that's more on the doctor than the company that you work for yeah so if I'm gonna

[00:33:32] work for a DSO I'm gonna do my best to take care of that patient and if somebody's telling me to do

[00:33:38] otherwise well we'll have a conversation about that like what exactly do you want me to do because

[00:33:44] I'm not gonna budge on this so tell me how you want me to reach my goals without budging on taking care

[00:33:51] of my patient yeah um but at the company that I've worked for I've never felt any pressure

[00:33:59] that oh I need to work harder because I'm not doing enough what I've seen though is that

[00:34:08] they've given me guidance like hey maybe you can do better here in this situation

[00:34:16] hey maybe we can help your assistance in assisting you to you know get more efficient

[00:34:23] maybe we can talk about treatment planning this way instead of that way but I've never been

[00:34:30] pressure to do anything that I don't want to do yeah again that's the company I work for

[00:34:37] that's other companies that my friends have worked for but I'm sure every DSO is different

[00:34:43] it just depends on you know um who your higher ups are I guess yeah for sure

[00:34:50] but also a lot I would also want to say a lot people talk about ownership a lot of DSOs are offering

[00:34:56] ownership um I have actually bought into my my office um and it's been great I mean I just feel like

[00:35:06] once you buy in you get more say so you get uh you get your opinion heard more and um

[00:35:14] it's just you know now if you want to buy your own office and open up your own office

[00:35:20] I think go ahead and do that but not everybody is a true business owner

[00:35:26] not everybody's up for that challenge so if they're not then go to something that um will help

[00:35:33] you mainly basically focus on dentistry and not the business side of things yeah a couple things

[00:35:39] I wanted to comment on there um I loved how you said it's really at the end of the day taking care

[00:35:44] of the patients is up to the doctor and I think that applies for private practices as well there's

[00:35:50] a lot of greedy dentists that are doing shady stuff that under own office and just like there's

[00:35:56] probably some greedy dentists that work at DSOs that do shady stuff but at the end of day it's your

[00:36:01] license and no matter what pressure in quotations you're feeling nobody can tell you to do something

[00:36:09] your license like they just literally can't legally tell you what to do so um I love that you said

[00:36:15] that and then the other thing I love that you said is how most DSOs nowadays or a lot of DSOs nowadays

[00:36:22] are offering some type of ownership track and I think that that's really something that is going to

[00:36:30] in the long run be a really good thing for the for the industry because a lot of older dentists

[00:36:37] opened up dental offices and didn't really know that much about business but they still made

[00:36:42] enough money so they just never learned how to really run an efficient business because it's like

[00:36:47] dentistry is a high paying career anyway so they love it like they really didn't ever leverage the

[00:36:53] full potential of being a dentist but now these these DSOs that like really have all the efficiency

[00:37:00] all the business concept hammered down when you can buy into a DSO even if it's just on minority

[00:37:07] stake in your office sometimes you can be making double triple what a private practice owner is

[00:37:12] making because it's just runs so well that's gonna be that's definitely going to be a solution for

[00:37:17] people who are not as you know like they're not the the MBA type people who just like want to learn

[00:37:24] everything that there is to learn about marketing insurance involvement all this other stuff I mean

[00:37:29] that's going to really offer a really fulfilling and and fruitful career for a lot of people

[00:37:36] absolutely and and what you mentioned I mean I've met business owners that I don't I'm not

[00:37:45] I swear I'm not trying to show off or mention anything but I've met business owners that told me

[00:37:49] how much they make and I made that in my third year you know what I mean so and that's without me

[00:37:55] buying it you know yeah so that's the thing is that if you don't if you're gonna be a business owner

[00:38:03] and you don't know how to live it up to their put to that potential you're not you're not getting

[00:38:12] what you can get so learn it from a DSO and then go open up your business you know yeah now the

[00:38:20] other thing is you know opening up your are are buying in is is very nice

[00:38:28] and I'm and I'm gonna be unbiased here the contracts for DSOs because they're doing a lot of

[00:38:36] the business and you're basically just doing those contracts usually that the you know you should

[00:38:43] really look into those contracts because a lot of those contracts the DSO has the upper hand which

[00:38:49] as long as you know what you're walking in walking into it's okay you know as long as you know that

[00:38:56] you're a partner and what your contract says it's okay because if you're never gonna open up

[00:39:02] your own office at least invest your money and the company that you work for that you have a hand in

[00:39:09] yeah I mean if nothing else just the job satisfaction of like knowing you have ownership

[00:39:16] I mean that's enough if you know you're gonna be there long term why would why would you not invest it

[00:39:20] exactly and then one thing I've talked to I've talked to somebody about this I don't remember who

[00:39:25] exactly but we were talking about how the new like the new trend for DSOs is gonna be for to offer

[00:39:33] better and better partnership tracks or equity models for doctors because they're realizing a lot of

[00:39:41] DSOs are realizing that there's a pretty big issue with retention of doctors so they're gonna

[00:39:46] they're definitely in the years to come I mean like people who are still in school can expect to see

[00:39:51] some pretty nice deals and some pretty nice partnership tracks at DSOs that might be pretty hard

[00:39:56] to turn down especially for somebody who's not really super business-minded or somebody who just

[00:40:01] wants to clock in clock out I will say this I'm not that business-minded guy I will do everything you

[00:40:08] know I've learned a lot more about business ever since I bought it I mean everybody look up the

[00:40:13] word evidence I didn't know that word met until I bought it yeah but it's it's actually very

[00:40:24] nice that once you buy in you want to be business-minded and you want to learn what you know make

[00:40:31] sure company profit or lose you want to know what tweaks you can make with lab fees with payroll

[00:40:40] with I mean there's just so many factors you know supplies what factors come into play on you

[00:40:49] know we even track how many patients we risk like how many patients that have come in for appointment

[00:40:58] that didn't get a cleaning you know that's a big factor if a patient walks in and you schedule

[00:41:04] for that filling or for that for that crown but you didn't put them on their cleaning schedule

[00:41:09] you may lose that patient and forget about them whenever you're done with treatment so these are

[00:41:14] all factors that you know you think about every day now that I never thought about when I wasn't

[00:41:20] a business owner yeah you guys have like a third party like plug-in software that runs analytics

[00:41:26] or is it like through so the coolest thing about our company we're like Apple man

[00:41:33] we don't like to take anything from outside we make our own software yeah we make our own

[00:41:39] treatment plans software we make our own analytics software we make our own uh uh payroll

[00:41:45] stuff like all that stuff like it's our own stuff you know fully integrated yeah that's

[00:41:50] often though actually that's actually really cool I've never heard of a of a DSO that like

[00:41:54] actually has their own software's like for everything let's all freestanding buildings we're not

[00:42:01] we don't do shopping centers like it's just I feel like I love my company but I I just don't know how

[00:42:10] to compare it to other DSOs you know what I mean yeah like I can't speak on other DSOs but it is a

[00:42:17] DSO and it runs like many other DSOs it's just the details matter on the DSO that you're working

[00:42:26] yeah all right I'm gonna do some quick fire questions here that um I didn't I didn't give you a warning

[00:42:32] so I'm kind of putting it up so but they should be pretty easy just give so for the listeners

[00:42:38] I'm gonna want you to give us one tip on um treatment planning efficiently okay treatment planning

[00:42:47] first things first always work within the patient's insurance first I mean at least work with

[00:42:55] it if you want to do stuff outside of that go ahead but work within the patient's insurance okay

[00:43:01] awesome and then um next give us one uh clinical tip just for aimed at dental students something

[00:43:09] that we might not know um something that you might that might be useful on a daily basis okay here's

[00:43:15] a clinical tip always have your bite wings open when you're doing a filling perfect yeah there's

[00:43:22] there's always been times where I want to do an MO and while I'm looking at that bite wing

[00:43:29] I'm like I saw a DSO that I didn't see before and I'd rather do it right then and there instead of

[00:43:35] see it six months later to get the patient numb again and to do that filling for free because

[00:43:40] insurance only pays for fillings every two years awesome yeah that's a really good tip so is

[00:43:46] that on the it only pays for fillings every two years on the same tooth correct on the same

[00:43:53] tooth and if you have the same insurance but if you switch entrances you know um but the thing is

[00:43:59] like I'm not gonna make a patient pay for another filling again when it was my fault yeah

[00:44:06] all right I mean okay awesome always have the bite wings up and and review them I'm always reviewing

[00:44:12] bite wings before every before honestly any work but mainly every filling I have bite wings up

[00:44:20] and I'm you know I'm used as my map perfect yeah awesome and then just last one any advice you have

[00:44:28] for young dentists who um like what should be the first thing that they work on getting better at

[00:44:36] um I know you mentioned treatment planning earlier so other than treatment planning

[00:44:40] what what do you think? Clinically if you're gonna if you're gonna want to be a successful dentist

[00:44:48] get good at root canals because that's that's where that's where a lot of a lot of work comes from

[00:44:58] yeah I mean every root canal is gonna have a build up in a crowd so if you get good at root canals

[00:45:04] you're gonna be a very confident dentist you're not gonna be worried about pulpit exposure

[00:45:10] you're not gonna be um worried about doing only crowns and then the patient comes back in pain

[00:45:17] you know you're gonna know when to when a patient needs a root canal so get really good at root canals

[00:45:24] awesome perfect uh how does it's been really that's been a really good time um recording with you

[00:45:29] I've learned a lot for sure um so I hope everybody out there has um for anybody who wants to reach out

[00:45:35] with him or reach out to him and talk to him a little bit more about his specific company or just

[00:45:40] his experience in general I will uh put his email in the show notes and um thank you guys for

[00:45:46] listening we'll see you next time