Very Dental Student: Going All In on Ownership with Dr. David Rice

[00:00:01] This is a production of The Very Dental Podcast Network.

[00:00:04] It's time for a Very Dental Podcast just for students and new dentists.

[00:00:14] Welcome to The Very Dental Student Podcast.

[00:00:17] And now, here's your host, Mohammed Abubasha.

[00:00:20] Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Very Dental Student Podcast.

[00:00:25] I'm your host, Mohammed Abubasha.

[00:00:27] And today, I'm coming on with a really exciting guest, Dr. David Rice.

[00:00:32] Many of you guys might know his Ignite DDS page.

[00:00:37] It's pretty popular on social media for sure, especially if you guys are in dental school or young dentist.

[00:00:43] I'm sure you've heard of him.

[00:00:45] Dr. Rice, how are you doing today?

[00:00:47] I'm great. How are you?

[00:00:48] I'm doing amazing. It's a pleasure to have you on.

[00:00:51] So, Dr. Rice, I wanted you to give us just like a short intro.

[00:00:56] Just give us a quick pitch like how you became interested in dentistry and what you do.

[00:01:02] Give us like a short resume if you will of all the different things you're doing these days.

[00:01:07] Okay. So, undergrad, I was one of those weird people who thought I was going to go to dental school.

[00:01:14] Didn't really know much about it but really got lucky and fell in love with it when I got there.

[00:01:20] And then did my four years at dental school at Buffalo, which is where I'm originally from,

[00:01:25] moved to do a GPR for two years in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

[00:01:31] A big fan of post-grad programs when they're an opportunity for us.

[00:01:36] And then I was an associate for a couple of years.

[00:01:39] I had like some terrible associate experiences.

[00:01:42] So if you want to know more, let me know.

[00:01:44] And then I had a great one where I was going to buy my first practice.

[00:01:48] We knew that the moment I signed my associate contract, it was going to be for like six months.

[00:01:52] So, bought a practice, brought on an associate immediately.

[00:01:58] And then over the next four years we bought three more practices.

[00:02:03] We did a startup together and about seven months pre-COVID,

[00:02:10] we sold all those practices and I'm back to being an associate again.

[00:02:14] That's perfect timing.

[00:02:15] Yeah, it's kind of cool.

[00:02:16] Yep, good fortune.

[00:02:18] What is it? You don't plan to fail, you fail the plan, right?

[00:02:21] So I had that plan lined up, it just worked out well.

[00:02:24] So I could spend more time doing all the things I do with educating

[00:02:29] and working with young dentists all over North America.

[00:02:33] So I do some clinical dentistry but not very often.

[00:02:36] I do work with lots of young docs and practices and teams.

[00:02:40] Yeah, so I do want to talk a little bit more about you said you had

[00:02:45] a couple horrible associateships and then a really good one.

[00:02:48] So if you don't mind telling me like what do you think defines a bad

[00:02:53] associate ship versus a good one just in general terms?

[00:02:56] Sure, so I think most young dentists would say that anytime it just doesn't go well

[00:03:02] for any reason it's a bad associate ship.

[00:03:05] So what I would kind of dive into is bad ones are if you're being mistreated

[00:03:10] or if patients are being mistreated and you feel some obligation to kind of go along with that.

[00:03:19] I think those are the two real bad versions of an associate ship.

[00:03:23] Mine was, you know, I saw a lot of fraud with insurance companies.

[00:03:27] I saw a lot of over treatment.

[00:03:30] I quit within three weeks because I didn't want to be associated with that.

[00:03:34] Dentistry is a super small profession and whether you like it or not

[00:03:38] you're going to get labeled as one of the great ones or one of the bad ones.

[00:03:41] No one remembers anyone in the middle but they do remember the top 10 and the bottom 10%.

[00:03:47] So I think it's just a patient's are getting mistreated

[00:03:50] or you as an associate are getting really mistreated.

[00:03:52] That's bad.

[00:03:54] I got you.

[00:03:56] And then so you talked about that other associate ship that you enjoyed

[00:04:01] that you walked in already with a plan to transition into ownership.

[00:04:06] I do want to dive into that a little bit more.

[00:04:09] So is that something you had written in the contract?

[00:04:12] How did you like was that something you specifically looked for whenever you were communicating with dentists

[00:04:19] for looking for a new associate ship position?

[00:04:22] Yeah, that's a really good question.

[00:04:24] So in my circumstance I knew I was ready to own right away.

[00:04:29] So I sought out practices and certain zip codes, location, location, location.

[00:04:36] And yes, we wrote every bit of that into our contract that I was going to be an associate

[00:04:41] only long enough for us to figure out the math and what their transition should look like.

[00:04:46] But that was going to be part of our plan.

[00:04:49] And what I'll tell you guys is when you don't have something like that written into a contract,

[00:04:54] a lot of you are going to hear from an owner that, oh, there'll be an opportunity for ownership in one year

[00:05:00] or two years or three years.

[00:05:02] But if it's not on paper gang nine out of 10 times, it's not going to happen.

[00:05:07] And it's not because all those dentists are bad people.

[00:05:10] It is because they're bad planners and nobody has it really figured out.

[00:05:14] So I've seen people one, two, three, five years and then eventually they either walk away

[00:05:20] and go do their own thing or they kind of suffer through five, six, seven years being an associate

[00:05:25] when they don't want to be one.

[00:05:27] Yeah, I've definitely heard stories like that where somebody walks into an associate ship was promised,

[00:05:34] oh, here in a year I'll give you half the practice.

[00:05:37] I'll finance it to you.

[00:05:39] And then, you know, three years later they still have no ownership.

[00:05:42] So I've definitely heard that firsthand and that's why I thought it would be good to ask you

[00:05:47] to see if you had that in writing.

[00:05:49] So anybody looking for a similar transition, make sure you get it in writing for sure.

[00:05:55] For sure.

[00:05:57] Have it date.

[00:05:58] And then how long did you practice in a...

[00:06:02] So you went on and expanded your enterprise.

[00:06:06] But how long did you practice full-time in that one office before you added anything else on?

[00:06:12] So we were there for a year and a half before we had a really great opportunity.

[00:06:19] We weren't seeking to buy another practice, but one of the coolest things in dentistry is that it is a small profession.

[00:06:26] So our Patterson rep actually came to us one day and said,

[00:06:32] Hey, there's a goldmine of a practice that's within three miles of your location.

[00:06:38] He just wants to retire and close the door so I know you could go in and buy patient charts.

[00:06:44] It won't cost you very much money.

[00:06:46] And even if only half the people showed up, you know, there's a lot of dentistry that needs to be done.

[00:06:51] So we weren't quite ready for the opportunity, but we took the opportunity.

[00:06:54] I guess we kept ourselves open to opportunities coming.

[00:06:57] So that happened pretty quickly for us.

[00:07:00] And then the third one happened about a year after that.

[00:07:03] And then the startup was, I think four years after that that we did.

[00:07:10] So talk to me about the difference like an acquisition versus a startup.

[00:07:16] Like you had already been a practice owner in several iterations.

[00:07:21] So I feel like that's a better background than most people have when they're going into a startup.

[00:07:28] But I'm sure there was still some differences.

[00:07:30] So talk to me about that.

[00:07:32] For sure.

[00:07:33] So, you know, I'm a big fan first of all of just being an owner.

[00:07:37] If you think you want to be an owner, don't lock and load into whether you're going to do a startup or an acquisition.

[00:07:44] Just go all in on ownership.

[00:07:46] Then it's about opportunity and timing.

[00:07:50] So if you want a practice in a certain location at a certain time, there may or may not be practices for sale.

[00:07:58] Or the practices for sale may be way overpriced.

[00:08:02] So if you say like at that time I was in, you know, 14051 and I knew that's where I wanted a location.

[00:08:11] There just wasn't an opportunity for us to buy that was that made it any sense at all.

[00:08:17] So then we needed to build the main differences I would say are if you're building, you're going to have to look for a site.

[00:08:26] Right?

[00:08:27] There's no practice in existence.

[00:08:28] So you need to look for property to either lease or buy.

[00:08:31] If it's your first practice, you should 100% lease.

[00:08:36] You know, unless somebody in your family has a ton of money and they're going to hand it to you.

[00:08:41] You know, just lease and own one business before you worry about owning another business that has to own property.

[00:08:47] Yeah.

[00:08:48] But you know, we were in a situation where like you said, we've done this a few times and our geography was such that we could buy space.

[00:08:58] So that wasn't a thing for us.

[00:09:00] But you're going to have to look for a location.

[00:09:02] You're going to have to market a lot more because there is no patient base.

[00:09:06] You're going to have to build a team from scratch because there is no team.

[00:09:10] So those are some differences between, you know, building and buying.

[00:09:14] But I wouldn't be afraid of either one of them.

[00:09:17] I would just look at it as where do I really want to be?

[00:09:20] What opportunities are there or not there?

[00:09:23] And then the last factor I would look at if I'm a young dentist is what is the competition?

[00:09:28] So if you came into a neighborhood where there's, you know, 50 other dentists who are all hungry and building their practices and looking for new patients,

[00:09:38] not a good neighborhood to do a startup.

[00:09:41] If you go into that same neighborhood and maybe there's 50 people but they're all over the age of 50 years old and they're in that coast mode,

[00:09:48] that could be an okay place to do a startup.

[00:09:50] And obviously you go to a place where there's not a lot of dentists,

[00:09:54] you know, and there's a decent amount of patients.

[00:09:56] Startups are a great thing to do today.

[00:09:59] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:01] All of that makes a ton of sense to me.

[00:10:03] One way that I've heard it in the past is like first you should look for good acquisition opportunity.

[00:10:10] And if those don't exist, then you start figuring out the logistics of a startup.

[00:10:14] Would you agree with that kind of train of think?

[00:10:17] I like that train of thought with one exception.

[00:10:20] If you're the kind of person and you know in your heart that you want everything your way on day one,

[00:10:28] then you should do a startup no matter what.

[00:10:30] Because an acquisition is going to require you to take a little time to get to know the team

[00:10:36] and to get to know the patients before you radically change how that practice runs

[00:10:41] or the biggest thing that you've purchased which is goodwill is at risk.

[00:10:47] So if you know you're that person that needs it all your way right away, do a startup.

[00:10:52] Otherwise I would totally agree.

[00:10:54] If there's an opportunity to buy in an area that you want and it's a good value, I would buy.

[00:10:59] Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:11:01] Yeah, I can see I've heard stories of like the old team not necessarily wanting to make so many changes,

[00:11:08] especially if you still have paper charts and you're wanting to do like Syrac,

[00:11:14] then that might be a very rapid undertaking, hefty undertaking for the team.

[00:11:23] But it does make sense to like if you can get in somewhere that's kind of close to what your vision is long term,

[00:11:30] then you're getting that extra cash flow to start with.

[00:11:33] So you're not really having to start from zero and build up the cash flow.

[00:11:38] Yeah, for sure.

[00:11:40] And we work with people on both sides.

[00:11:42] We work with startups, we work with acquisitions and really you just have to know yourself,

[00:11:49] know your level of patience.

[00:11:51] And there's always a way to help a team of people who's worked for somebody for 20, 30, 40 years

[00:11:57] to help them change.

[00:11:59] You just have to understand what motivates them.

[00:12:01] You have to get them more of what they want.

[00:12:04] And when you give them what they want, they will absolutely help you build your vision.

[00:12:08] And it doesn't take more than like 12 to 18 months to make significant changes in an acquisition,

[00:12:14] but it does take some time.

[00:12:16] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:17] Well, you started kind of transitioning a little bit,

[00:12:20] but you mentioned that you work with both startups and acquisitions.

[00:12:24] So what exactly kind of services does Ignite BDS offer to young grads?

[00:12:30] We talked about this before we hit record, but just to kind of rehash that.

[00:12:34] Yeah, so you know, we do traditional coaching like others in the industry do where you would sign up

[00:12:40] and work with us for a year at a time.

[00:12:42] And in essence, we help you grow your business, grow your people, your team,

[00:12:48] which is the biggest problem in dentistry today.

[00:12:51] People can't find assistance hygienists, et cetera.

[00:12:54] And then create process, create structure.

[00:12:58] And then we had the clinical element of production.

[00:13:01] So you're not treating a tooth at a time, but you get to complete care.

[00:13:04] So we do that a year at a click like lots of other people,

[00:13:08] but we have a cool program called the 90 day jumpstart, which I love for all those who are out there

[00:13:14] who kind of like to dip their toe in the water before they jump into the deep end of the pool

[00:13:18] and find out how cold that water is.

[00:13:19] So we do a 90 day jumpstart.

[00:13:21] We radically reduce the cost of the investment to you as a young dentist

[00:13:27] who's trying to be a new owner.

[00:13:29] And our job is to 3x what you pay us within 90 days.

[00:13:34] And when we do that, what I know will happen because it happens all the time

[00:13:38] is people come back and say like, all right, that was awesome.

[00:13:41] Now what?

[00:13:42] And then we roll into the full year program.

[00:13:44] So we just have a short course, you know, over those three months

[00:13:48] to help people who either worry about the financial investment

[00:13:52] or worry if it's just a good idea at all.

[00:13:55] And that's been a lot of fun.

[00:13:58] Yeah, so one thing, so you kind of mentioned like you work with doctors

[00:14:04] to also help improve their clinical skills as well.

[00:14:07] So how do you, how exactly do you do that?

[00:14:09] What kind of, what's the relationship look like?

[00:14:11] Yeah, so the first thing we do is we need to figure out

[00:14:14] what kind of dentistry each person wants to do.

[00:14:17] You know, if you want to be a restorative dentist

[00:14:19] are you going to focus on implants?

[00:14:20] You're going to focus on clear liners.

[00:14:22] Like you mentioned, Sarek earlier.

[00:14:24] Do you want to do CAD, CAM chair side?

[00:14:26] Or are you going to send it to your lab?

[00:14:27] And then once we know who you want to be in your perfect world

[00:14:31] then we dip into our team and we work on getting you

[00:14:36] excellent clinical skill sets in those areas.

[00:14:41] And then if you let me, I'm going to make sure

[00:14:44] you're the greatest diagnostician you can be

[00:14:46] because if you and I can't see the dentistry,

[00:14:49] we can't treat it.

[00:14:50] And that's, you know, although maybe not the most exciting

[00:14:53] thing to learn as a young dentist because you want to

[00:14:56] fire up your handpiece.

[00:14:57] You want to drop implants in.

[00:14:59] It's the most impactful thing you can learn to do

[00:15:02] is diagnose and treatment plans.

[00:15:04] So we really work with each individual differently.

[00:15:06] And that means we're pulling in different people

[00:15:08] from our team based on expertise.

[00:15:10] Okay.

[00:15:11] So you kind of have clinical mentors

[00:15:14] in different, different kind of specialties

[00:15:17] or different, like different strong suits.

[00:15:21] And based on the needs of the individual that you're coaching

[00:15:25] you'll let one of those clinical mentors have,

[00:15:29] you know, that kind of relationship with the doctor.

[00:15:31] 100%.

[00:15:32] I'll give you an example because I'm a firm believer

[00:15:35] in like where nobody is excellent at everything.

[00:15:38] Nobody.

[00:15:39] You can be really darn good at a lot of things.

[00:15:42] I feel like I'm pretty darn good at lots of things

[00:15:44] in dentistry, but if you want to do like complete care

[00:15:48] and highly aesthetic dentistry, I'm your guy.

[00:15:52] If you want to be an amazing placer,

[00:15:55] I mean, I'll restore implants to the cows come home,

[00:15:57] but if you want to place implants really well,

[00:15:59] like I'm not the person on my team to do that.

[00:16:01] You know, that's Sableman team.

[00:16:03] You know, that's someone who wasn't a weekend warrior

[00:16:06] and took a short course.

[00:16:08] She did a two-year fellowship in implantology

[00:16:11] after her post grad program and has dropped

[00:16:13] so many implants in, I can't even tell you.

[00:16:15] You know, so you want like the top 2%

[00:16:18] or the best of the best people working with you

[00:16:21] and you know, I've just learned to stay in my wheelhouse

[00:16:23] and then refer people either to other members of our team

[00:16:26] and sometimes refer people to just a different team

[00:16:29] all together because if we're not the right team for you,

[00:16:33] you should work with someone else.

[00:16:35] Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

[00:16:37] Would you say that you personally work with a lot of doctors

[00:16:41] that are doing the coaching?

[00:16:43] Because I know some coaching companies will be like

[00:16:45] headed by a very well-known doctor

[00:16:48] but the person actually doing the coaching

[00:16:50] is not necessarily that doctor.

[00:16:52] Yes, I love that.

[00:16:54] We're super hands-on.

[00:16:56] So when we work with one-on-one for a year at a time,

[00:16:59] we never work with more than 25 dentists in a year.

[00:17:03] And for our 90-day jump starts,

[00:17:05] we never work with more than 35 people in a year.

[00:17:08] So when you work with Ignite, you're going to see my mugshot

[00:17:14] all the time.

[00:17:16] I think that's really important.

[00:17:18] We're not trying to be a huge practice management company.

[00:17:21] We like boutique.

[00:17:23] We like one-on-one.

[00:17:25] We like consistency and follow-up

[00:17:27] and we want to make sure everyone we work with

[00:17:29] gets to that top 2% category

[00:17:32] and builds, you know, we call it a self-determination.

[00:17:34] You would call success a self-determined future.

[00:17:36] So my goal is, you know, within 1-2 years, you're there.

[00:17:40] You should never work with a coach for 5 years, 7 years, 10 years.

[00:17:44] There's a lot of them out there that make tons of money.

[00:17:46] But if you haven't figured it out in the first couple years,

[00:17:49] it's either just a bad fit

[00:17:51] or maybe you're not ready to commit to the work.

[00:17:54] So yeah.

[00:17:56] Yeah, I like that a lot.

[00:17:58] I like how you mentioned that you guys kind of boutique it

[00:18:02] because it's kind of on-brand with, I feel like,

[00:18:04] your personality is kind of like doing things

[00:18:07] on a very personal level.

[00:18:09] And I also noticed, like, we were talking before

[00:18:13] we started recording, like, I've never seen any marketing

[00:18:16] for you guys as coaching services.

[00:18:18] So I didn't even know that you guys offered that,

[00:18:21] but it makes sense because you kind of try to keep the numbers down

[00:18:24] and keep it more personal.

[00:18:26] We do.

[00:18:27] You know what?

[00:18:28] It's going to sound really weird to some of you,

[00:18:29] like, from a business perspective.

[00:18:31] But if 10 people come to us and want to be coached,

[00:18:33] we probably work with three.

[00:18:35] And it's not a knock on the other seven.

[00:18:37] It's just what I've learned over 30 years being in dentistry is

[00:18:41] there has to be a strategy and a skill set.

[00:18:44] Yes, but there has to be a really strong fit.

[00:18:47] And without that fit, you're not going to succeed.

[00:18:50] And if you don't succeed, then I don't succeed

[00:18:53] and everybody just gets upset and it's not worth it.

[00:18:56] Yeah, totally agree.

[00:18:58] I think that's awesome.

[00:19:00] And I think that's definitely unique when compared

[00:19:03] to other coaching companies and services in the industry, for sure.

[00:19:08] So I do want to talk a little bit more about your experience

[00:19:13] clinically.

[00:19:14] So you mentioned that you do a lot of full mouth,

[00:19:18] complete care, and you also are big on aesthetics.

[00:19:22] So how did you feel like you got a lot of that training

[00:19:25] in your GPR?

[00:19:27] Or when exactly did you feel comfortable doing full mouth

[00:19:32] comprehensive dentistry?

[00:19:34] So I did learn a decent, I'm going to say a pretty decent amount

[00:19:38] in my GPR.

[00:19:39] In GPRs and AGDs, it doesn't make a...

[00:19:42] I get that question a lot like which one should I choose

[00:19:44] and the answer is could be either you just have to dig

[00:19:47] deep and find out which programs offer what.

[00:19:51] So like Super Shameless Plug, we have a free e-book

[00:19:54] out there.

[00:19:55] It assesses GPRs and AGDs.

[00:19:56] They'll tell you not only what to do, but how much you'll do.

[00:19:59] So my program, I like to lot because we had specialist

[00:20:04] attendings in every specialty, but we didn't have any specialty

[00:20:10] training, which meant we as GPRs, we got all the

[00:20:16] experience of the periodontist, the endodontist,

[00:20:18] the prosodontist, the maxillofacial surgeon, etc.,

[00:20:21] etc., etc.

[00:20:23] So I learned a decent amount there and I really got to

[00:20:27] stretch my capabilities that I had from dental school.

[00:20:31] But honestly, I invested a ton of money early on in some

[00:20:36] deep dive education.

[00:20:38] So Dawson Center is a great place.

[00:20:40] Panky is a great place.

[00:20:42] Coice is wonderful today.

[00:20:45] Spears pretty good today.

[00:20:47] Those are really solid places that if you said,

[00:20:50] hey, I just want to focus on clinical education that I would

[00:20:54] highly recommend to any young dentist.

[00:20:58] And what we offer at Ignite is awesome, but it's very

[00:21:01] customized.

[00:21:02] If you want a global approach, any one of those places

[00:21:04] is incredible.

[00:21:05] And so for me, it took me maybe like four years deep into

[00:21:09] practice to really feel like I had total clinical control.

[00:21:14] Yeah, that's really cool.

[00:21:15] So that's good.

[00:21:16] It was a good timeline to know that this isn't something

[00:21:19] that you necessarily be doing as a new grad.

[00:21:22] It does take time to build those skills and get those,

[00:21:26] you know, that's 10,000 hours in before you can feel like

[00:21:29] you're in complete control.

[00:21:31] But so which one did you specifically go to?

[00:21:34] Or did you go to a little bit of all four of those?

[00:21:37] If you don't mind plugging specifically?

[00:21:39] I don't mind at all.

[00:21:41] And I'll tell you, so what I would not do is what I did.

[00:21:45] One of my mistakes is I had FOMO.

[00:21:47] I started at Dawson and I did about 80% of their curriculum

[00:21:52] and I said, well, if this is really good, I should probably

[00:21:54] go to Panky.

[00:21:55] And then I went and I did most of their curriculum and then

[00:21:58] I'm like, oh, I should probably go to Coice and Spear.

[00:22:01] So don't do that.

[00:22:03] They're all excellent institutions.

[00:22:05] If you're on the West Coast, go to Coice or go to Spear

[00:22:09] from the East Coast, go to Panky or go to Dawson

[00:22:11] and then commit to becoming a scholar and any one of those

[00:22:16] and you're going to do extraordinarily well.

[00:22:18] Don't worry about when you see some cool picture of somebody

[00:22:21] else who's going to the other program, all of those people

[00:22:25] all originated at Panky.

[00:22:28] So way back, you know, 60 years ago, all those faculty

[00:22:33] members came from one place and then some went on to Dawson,

[00:22:37] someone on to Spear, someone on to Coice, but they're all

[00:22:40] trained with the same stuff and they're all pretty darn good

[00:22:44] at it.

[00:22:45] Yeah, I've heard that there's minor kind of differences

[00:22:50] on how exactly they teach you to do things, but they all

[00:22:53] like if you follow their philosophy to the book,

[00:22:56] you're going to end up with pretty much the same result

[00:22:59] for the most part.

[00:23:01] Yeah, there's only a few outliers out there,

[00:23:04] but if you go to one of those four that foundationally

[00:23:06] their education and their processes is the same.

[00:23:10] Okay, awesome.

[00:23:12] And then how did you, so was it something about just like

[00:23:16] the neighborhood you were practicing in or just like

[00:23:20] your preference as how you like to practice, but how did you

[00:23:24] end up like implementing that training and getting those

[00:23:28] cases because a lot of people like might get that

[00:23:32] training, but then they might not be really seeing

[00:23:35] those patients or might not be getting the patient

[00:23:38] acceptance for cases like that, especially the more

[00:23:41] cosmetic cases.

[00:23:42] So was it a combination of both neighborhood and your

[00:23:45] skill set or what would you attribute that to?

[00:23:48] It's a, you know, so that's a really astute thing to notice

[00:23:52] and I'll tell you because I'm on faculty at several

[00:23:54] of those places, most people never truly integrate.

[00:23:58] So they have this tremendous education and it never

[00:24:00] translates to what they do day in and day out in their

[00:24:03] practice and therefore doesn't it translate to like

[00:24:06] them building a brand or being really profitable with

[00:24:09] what they do.

[00:24:10] So location helps for sure.

[00:24:15] So I would always tell you go to the areas where

[00:24:20] patients are more like you and I, meaning they have

[00:24:23] a high dental IQ.

[00:24:25] That's, you know, whatever they do for a living,

[00:24:27] they just get dentistry, they value it.

[00:24:29] It's important to them.

[00:24:30] So there are zip codes where that's going to happen

[00:24:32] more readily than others.

[00:24:34] That's one, two, get the training.

[00:24:36] Three, if I'm a young dentist today, I'll tell you

[00:24:40] what I did.

[00:24:41] It worked really, really well.

[00:24:42] I would identify any existing patient in your

[00:24:47] practice who owns a business and then figure out

[00:24:51] who in that business is public facing and who has

[00:24:55] a voice, whether it's in person or on social media

[00:24:58] and I would do their dentistry and if I were

[00:25:01] you, I would just do it for free.

[00:25:03] They're a walking, talking missionary for you

[00:25:07] and what you're capable of.

[00:25:09] So we did that with private businesses

[00:25:12] and then I also went to other dentists.

[00:25:16] I went to specialists.

[00:25:17] So I targeted the best orthodontist, endodontist,

[00:25:20] OMFS, all the people that were really highly

[00:25:24] regarded and I did free dentistry on anyone

[00:25:27] in their practice who wanted to come to me.

[00:25:29] And it took about three years for us to become

[00:25:32] the dentist to all the dentists in our area

[00:25:36] and they all became paying patients, which was

[00:25:39] really cool.

[00:25:40] And then all those people, imagine someone

[00:25:44] going to a salon like where do you go?

[00:25:47] I go to East Amherst Dental Center.

[00:25:48] They go to a surgeon.

[00:25:49] Where do you go?

[00:25:50] My family goes to East Amherst Dental Center.

[00:25:51] So we had this army of people who were

[00:25:53] all saying the same thing because they were

[00:25:55] legit our patients and we had straight in their

[00:25:58] teeth, white in their teeth, but near their

[00:26:00] teeth, bottom of their teeth, whatever it was.

[00:26:02] And it didn't take us very long to build that

[00:26:05] brand and people knew if they wanted it done

[00:26:08] at a high level, they could come to our practice.

[00:26:12] I think that's really powerful.

[00:26:14] I've never heard somebody say that,

[00:26:16] especially the audience facing or the

[00:26:19] marketing personality of a business to

[00:26:23] come in and let them do or give them

[00:26:26] free dentistry because right when you said

[00:26:28] I thought of this person I see on almost

[00:26:30] every billboard here in Oklahoma City.

[00:26:32] It's like you just drive down, he's a car

[00:26:34] dealer and you just see him with a huge

[00:26:36] smile and every time I'm like, I wonder

[00:26:39] who did his veneers because there's no way

[00:26:41] those but like I never thought of like,

[00:26:44] okay now if somebody actually goes and buys

[00:26:46] a car from him and they ask him,

[00:26:48] that's a pretty neat referral because

[00:26:50] if I'm thinking it, I'm sure other

[00:26:52] people are thinking wow, who I wonder

[00:26:54] who did his teeth, they're so nice.

[00:26:56] Yeah, I think those are definitely some pearls

[00:26:59] and if anybody wasn't paying attention

[00:27:01] maybe go back and just listen to that

[00:27:03] little tidbit again because I think

[00:27:05] that's really powerful for sure.

[00:27:07] Yeah, we loved it and of course in

[00:27:09] today's world, if I'm a young doc

[00:27:11] today you can market your practice

[00:27:13] and your skills on Instagram.

[00:27:15] If you do that well, you will get

[00:27:18] a lot of virtual consults

[00:27:20] and that will translate to patients

[00:27:22] but don't forget the feet

[00:27:24] on the street.

[00:27:26] It's so much faster

[00:27:28] to build when you go stay local

[00:27:30] and then you add that digital element

[00:27:32] to it, you can scale really quickly.

[00:27:34] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:36] So you do mention that you still

[00:27:39] practice but not so often.

[00:27:42] Are you an associate in that practice?

[00:27:45] Yeah, so I came full circle to being

[00:27:48] an associate again. We have a really cool

[00:27:50] arrangement so I'll share

[00:27:52] two things. One, everything

[00:27:54] in writing. So even though

[00:27:56] my partner Mark and I had

[00:27:58] we were partners for 26 years

[00:28:00] we never once had a look

[00:28:02] at what we wrote down. We had it all

[00:28:04] written down so that's really important

[00:28:06] and I don't want people to misunderstand

[00:28:08] what I'm about to say so make sure

[00:28:10] you have everything in writing. That being said

[00:28:12] we built

[00:28:14] such great relationships with each other

[00:28:16] over the years that

[00:28:18] when this transition came

[00:28:20] it was easy for us to sit down

[00:28:22] and say what should this next step

[00:28:24] look like? And for us

[00:28:26] it was

[00:28:28] I thought, look what does the practice need most?

[00:28:30] Well if I'm going to come in a week every other month

[00:28:32] they need me to be productive

[00:28:34] and they need me to not be an interruption

[00:28:36] in the flow

[00:28:38] of the practice because I'm not there a lot

[00:28:40] and what did I need?

[00:28:42] I needed to do big cases that I

[00:28:44] love to do because that's what I wanted

[00:28:46] to do and also because I want to generate

[00:28:48] content for education

[00:28:50] since that's a lot of what I do today.

[00:28:52] So we sat down and said how does everybody

[00:28:54] win? I'm like, I'll tell you what

[00:28:56] if you guys fly me to Buffalo

[00:28:58] if you put me up at a hotel

[00:29:00] I have other business

[00:29:02] I'm going to do when I'm here

[00:29:04] I'll come in and do whatever

[00:29:06] dentistry you want me to do and you can keep

[00:29:08] all the money

[00:29:10] but everyone needs to have a photo release

[00:29:12] a video release and

[00:29:14] that was the deal so

[00:29:16] they win because they're happy to put

[00:29:18] big cases on my schedule because

[00:29:20] they're making all the money when I'm doing

[00:29:22] all the work and I'm really happy because

[00:29:24] I'm building this great content

[00:29:26] that I can share with young dentists who want to learn

[00:29:28] how to do veneers, who want to learn how to do

[00:29:30] you know complete care big cases so

[00:29:32] it's a really cool example I think of

[00:29:34] have it all written down but build

[00:29:36] relationships with people

[00:29:38] who have strong integrity and your life is

[00:29:40] going to get so much simpler.

[00:29:42] Yeah that's definitely

[00:29:44] a really cool arrangement

[00:29:46] definitely not one that I've ever heard of

[00:29:48] anything like before but

[00:29:50] if it's working for both of you

[00:29:52] then that's amazing so it is the practice

[00:29:54] that you used to be a part owner in

[00:29:56] is where you go back

[00:29:58] now. Yeah so I go back

[00:30:00] there and I have Eau Claire

[00:30:02] who's a manufacturer in dentistry they make

[00:30:04] a lot of the beautiful materials that I've used

[00:30:06] all these years their US headquarters

[00:30:08] is 10 minutes from the practice

[00:30:10] so when I shared with Mark

[00:30:12] like if you fly me in and put me up

[00:30:14] I'm going to make my money doing my other things

[00:30:16] I also go to Ivaclar when I'm there

[00:30:18] and we have a business relationship together

[00:30:20] so they pay me to do

[00:30:22] what I do which makes

[00:30:24] all this stuff work really well together.

[00:30:26] That's awesome

[00:30:28] so

[00:30:30] I'm assuming that when you did

[00:30:32] decide to exit from your practices that it was

[00:30:34] just your partner that took over

[00:30:36] and is that correct?

[00:30:38] Actually no

[00:30:40] so really cool you and I met

[00:30:42] at an event in Oklahoma City

[00:30:44] so imagine

[00:30:46] about 8 years ago

[00:30:48] I met at that time

[00:30:50] a third year dental student and I shared

[00:30:52] with her the same thing I shared with all you guys

[00:30:54] I can get you a job anywhere in this country

[00:30:56] and it would be a great job

[00:30:58] because you know I know a lot of people

[00:31:00] and so I'm happy to connect people

[00:31:02] so she reached out to me one day

[00:31:04] and said hey you promised me

[00:31:06] you could help me when the time was right

[00:31:08] she's like well I'm coming back

[00:31:10] to

[00:31:12] Clarence, New York. Well Clarence is 10 minutes from my practice

[00:31:14] in like 35 minutes from Buffalo

[00:31:16] Proper. I'm like well send me a resume

[00:31:18] I'm going to do

[00:31:20] I'll get you to all the right people

[00:31:22] and I looked at it and I looked at Mark

[00:31:24] I'm like man we're not quite ready for Laura

[00:31:26] but we're going to have to get ready

[00:31:28] she's the one

[00:31:30] we had already talked about my exit strategy

[00:31:32] so we brought Laura on

[00:31:34] Laura worked for us as an associate

[00:31:36] and she did way back in the day

[00:31:38] Laura's whole buyout

[00:31:40] was part of the original agreement

[00:31:42] we just needed to know that she liked

[00:31:44] the practice and the practice

[00:31:46] and the patients liked her back

[00:31:48] so she owns half and Mark owns half

[00:31:50] very cool

[00:31:52] and it's still the same they still have the same footprint

[00:31:54] that you had with Mark

[00:31:56] whenever you guys were practicing

[00:31:58] in those practices

[00:32:00] yes so

[00:32:02] Mark and I maybe six years

[00:32:04] we went to owning like we left

[00:32:06] the original space

[00:32:08] that we had and we built a 6000

[00:32:10] square foot building on a little better than

[00:32:12] an acre piece of property

[00:32:14] and man we could have a whole other discussion

[00:32:16] because that one acre is a part of seven acres

[00:32:18] and we were part of the build out of that

[00:32:20] seven acres where we brought in our favorite

[00:32:22] orthodontist pediatric dentists

[00:32:24] physicians surgeons the whole

[00:32:26] my yard so there's a whole other world

[00:32:28] out there for you guys

[00:32:30] but yeah Laura at the same footprint

[00:32:32] that's a really neat story

[00:32:34] it's a

[00:32:36] like you said if you find

[00:32:38] those good people trustworthy people

[00:32:40] that you can have relationships

[00:32:42] you can do cool things like that

[00:32:44] so

[00:32:46] what advice do you have

[00:32:48] for a dental student like myself

[00:32:50] so I know that once I'm a young dentist

[00:32:52] I've graduated I can reach out to you

[00:32:54] about next steps

[00:32:56] but what can I do

[00:32:58] while I'm in school to get ready for that

[00:33:00] yeah I would say

[00:33:02] the first piece of advice I have for you

[00:33:04] is to recognize that

[00:33:06] you don't have as much time

[00:33:08] as you think you do

[00:33:10] I know

[00:33:12] how most dental students think

[00:33:14] being one and it's just like you're focused on

[00:33:16] I just need to survive dental school and graduate

[00:33:18] and then I'm going to go look

[00:33:20] for mentors and then I'm going to go do these things

[00:33:22] don't look at it that way

[00:33:24] find some mentors right now

[00:33:26] you don't have to learn all the things

[00:33:28] but before you graduate what you

[00:33:30] really need to know

[00:33:32] is part of the financial control

[00:33:34] is

[00:33:36] who do you want to be when you grow up

[00:33:38] have an idea of that so you can take the right steps

[00:33:40] you definitely need

[00:33:42] a few insurances

[00:33:44] before you leave school so make sure you're meeting

[00:33:46] the right people

[00:33:48] and sometimes guys this is organized

[00:33:50] dentistry and sometimes it's not

[00:33:52] so you need the right disability

[00:33:54] insurance

[00:33:56] you need the right malpractice insurance

[00:33:58] if you have kids

[00:34:00] you should get life insurance if you don't have kids

[00:34:02] don't worry about it you don't need that yet

[00:34:04] and then

[00:34:06] you should start financially setting

[00:34:08] yourself up to be an owner

[00:34:10] and that

[00:34:12] doesn't mean you have to do all the things it just means you need to know

[00:34:14] what all

[00:34:16] of the lenders want they want you to

[00:34:18] save

[00:34:20] 75 grand

[00:34:22] and some kind of an account that they can take the money from

[00:34:24] so start thinking about being smart with your money

[00:34:26] not just

[00:34:28] lighten on fire they need to see that you're increasing

[00:34:30] your speed so start keeping

[00:34:32] track of how long it takes you to do

[00:34:34] a crown as a third year student versus a fourth year

[00:34:36] student versus your first

[00:34:38] associate ship and then they want to see

[00:34:40] you taking continuing education

[00:34:42] and getting better at what you do

[00:34:44] so take CE

[00:34:46] and keep track of it and as a dental student you guys

[00:34:48] either get discounts or free CE at lots of things

[00:34:50] so

[00:34:52] keep a log of all those things

[00:34:54] and that will set you up to be an owner

[00:34:56] whenever you decide you want to be one

[00:34:58] instead of getting there

[00:35:00] and then having to do all those three things

[00:35:04] yeah um you didn't mention taking CE

[00:35:06] if that's an option

[00:35:10] sometimes people ask me

[00:35:12] is it justifiable to use loan money

[00:35:14] to go fly out and take a course

[00:35:16] and um

[00:35:18] I've heard from a lot of

[00:35:20] a lot of people that yes you should definitely do it

[00:35:22] while you're a student

[00:35:24] um but I just want to get your

[00:35:26] your perspective on that because it is hard

[00:35:28] to even though you get the student discount

[00:35:30] but you know like by the time

[00:35:32] you pay off your student loans you end up

[00:35:34] you end up paying about full price so

[00:35:36] what do you think about doing things like that

[00:35:38] I would say

[00:35:42] yes and no here's the yes

[00:35:44] if you take the right CE

[00:35:46] it's worth it

[00:35:48] if you take the shiny object CE

[00:35:50] you're wasting your time and money

[00:35:52] so if you're going to go to a coice

[00:35:54] or a panky or a Dawson

[00:35:56] or a spear

[00:35:58] um yes you can start

[00:36:00] don't spend money on anything else yet

[00:36:02] I know you want to don't

[00:36:04] um take advantage of

[00:36:06] of people

[00:36:08] in communities like Ignite

[00:36:10] so literally

[00:36:12] we've got it at six schools now

[00:36:14] where we build out our whole curriculum

[00:36:16] that people pay us tens of thousands of dollars for

[00:36:18] and it will be free

[00:36:20] to you when we get

[00:36:22] enough students from one you know

[00:36:24] dental school to do it

[00:36:26] so take advantage of the good people

[00:36:28] who will give you stuff for free

[00:36:30] and just invest time

[00:36:32] with your faculty even

[00:36:34] maybe invest some shadowing time

[00:36:36] in dentists in your community I bet you

[00:36:38] there's an outstanding specialist

[00:36:40] in every category wherever it is

[00:36:42] you're going to school if you're listening right now

[00:36:44] just go hang out for half day

[00:36:46] you'll learn a ton and if nothing else you'll learn

[00:36:48] is that specialty an option for you

[00:36:50] or is that just you know a no-go

[00:36:52] yeah

[00:36:54] um so one thing I kind of

[00:36:56] just want to like mention

[00:36:58] is a lot of the

[00:37:00] a lot of the stuff that DSO's

[00:37:02] pitched to us as students

[00:37:04] as a clinical mentorship

[00:37:06] um the helping us to be able to run our business

[00:37:08] efficiently

[00:37:10] and maximize the profitability of the location

[00:37:12] so that we can get some sort of profit share

[00:37:14] those are

[00:37:16] all things that

[00:37:18] coaching services like ignite

[00:37:20] are offering those same services

[00:37:22] but you're an owner

[00:37:24] instead of being an associate at a DSO

[00:37:26] is that kind of a good way to think of it

[00:37:28] because I know a lot of people are like well

[00:37:30] I'm not ready for private practice

[00:37:32] um so I want to go work at a

[00:37:34] DSO where they're going to help me

[00:37:36] with the business stuff they're going to help me with the clinical stuff

[00:37:38] but if you can get that kind of mentorship

[00:37:40] either way

[00:37:42] um but actually be an owner

[00:37:44] to me that seems like a super advantageous

[00:37:46] um kind of relationship

[00:37:48] I agree

[00:37:50] so the so I'm going to go back to that

[00:37:52] know yourself thing

[00:37:54] some of you who are listening

[00:37:56] to this

[00:37:58] somewhere deep down inside like believe

[00:38:00] that you never want to own anything

[00:38:02] so if you never want to own anything

[00:38:04] then there's lots of options out there

[00:38:06] including DSO's explore them

[00:38:08] my caution to you is

[00:38:10] don't

[00:38:12] avoid ownership

[00:38:14] because people are telling you all the reasons

[00:38:16] not to be an owner

[00:38:18] all of it

[00:38:20] serves their end game

[00:38:22] not yours so if you believe

[00:38:24] that you'd like to be an owner

[00:38:26] then know that you can be an owner

[00:38:28] and a highly successful one

[00:38:30] whether you want to own

[00:38:32] one boutique practice

[00:38:34] one big practice

[00:38:36] or you want to go own 10

[00:38:38] 15 20 30 locations yourself

[00:38:40] all that's possible

[00:38:42] so long as you surround yourself

[00:38:44] with the right people

[00:38:46] you build the right process and then you learn

[00:38:48] how to be productive

[00:38:50] in the environment that you're in

[00:38:52] and those are all skill sets you can learn

[00:38:54] that I promise you guys when I was you

[00:38:56] I knew nothing about

[00:38:58] so don't feel like

[00:39:00] the people who are out doing those things

[00:39:02] are smarter than you faster than you

[00:39:04] better than you they're not

[00:39:06] they just learn some things that you haven't learned yet

[00:39:08] and you can learn them too

[00:39:10] awesome

[00:39:12] Dr. Rice do you have any

[00:39:14] closing remarks or words of advice

[00:39:16] for young dentists out there

[00:39:18] or dental students that we

[00:39:20] haven't already touched on

[00:39:22] ask as many questions

[00:39:24] as you can ask

[00:39:26] I will tell you another thing that I did wrong

[00:39:28] is I always

[00:39:30] felt insecure

[00:39:32] that I should have answers to questions

[00:39:34] that I was going to ask so I didn't ask them

[00:39:36] so ask

[00:39:38] all the questions you can ask

[00:39:40] good people will want to help you

[00:39:42] and the people who either

[00:39:44] don't give you an answer or they make you feel bad

[00:39:46] for asking

[00:39:48] just know that those are people that you don't really

[00:39:50] need to spend a whole lot of quality time with

[00:39:54] wonderful

[00:39:56] Dr. Rice it's been a pleasure having you on

[00:39:58] there's been a lot of nuggets

[00:40:00] in that episode so that's definitely one I'll go back

[00:40:02] and listen to myself

[00:40:04] if you don't mind

[00:40:06] plugging the name of that e-book you mentioned

[00:40:08] that talks about the different

[00:40:10] residencies and then also

[00:40:12] letting us know

[00:40:14] what the best way to get in contact

[00:40:16] with you or

[00:40:18] ignite in general

[00:40:20] sure so if you go to ignitedds.com

[00:40:22] under resources

[00:40:24] you'll see

[00:40:26] guides

[00:40:28] in e-books it's a residency guide

[00:40:30] there's multiple guides on there

[00:40:32] they're all free everything we have for you guys

[00:40:34] for students is all free stuff so

[00:40:36] download and take advantage of it

[00:40:38] in general to get a hold of me

[00:40:40] you can go whatever route

[00:40:42] is easier for you so you can go right to ignitedds.com

[00:40:46] click contact

[00:40:48] it kicks to myself it kicks also to Don

[00:40:50] on our team so you'll get an answer with us

[00:40:52] within 24 hours you can go

[00:40:54] to ignitedds on instagram

[00:40:56] if you want

[00:40:58] like a quick dm

[00:41:00] and if you want to be like somewhere in the middle

[00:41:02] and you want to learn some things but not totally commit

[00:41:04] we have a private

[00:41:06] facebook group called ignitedds insiders

[00:41:08] all you have to do is answer

[00:41:10] the questions to let us know that you're a legit

[00:41:12] human who's not trying to scam

[00:41:14] dentists or dental students and we will be happy

[00:41:16] to let you in

[00:41:18] yep and I can definitely vouch

[00:41:20] that Dr. Rice

[00:41:22] is not very hard to get a hold of

[00:41:24] so if you want

[00:41:26] to reach out and ask him any questions

[00:41:28] or learn for any young dentists

[00:41:30] out there learn anything more about their

[00:41:32] 90 day jumpstart program

[00:41:34] or their

[00:41:36] coaching service yeah just go ahead

[00:41:38] and reach out we'll make sure to leave

[00:41:40] the link for the ignitedds

[00:41:42] in the show notes

[00:41:44] but it's I mean it's a really easy

[00:41:46] Google search as well

[00:41:48] Dr. Rice I'll have

[00:41:50] to end this with getting you to

[00:41:52] promise that we'll have a second episode

[00:41:54] hopefully in the coming future

[00:41:56] yeah happy to help anytime

[00:41:58] awesome alright well

[00:42:00] for Dr. David Rice

[00:42:02] I'm Muhammad Abu-Bashat thank you guys

[00:42:04] for listening and we'll see you next time